michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 7, 2019 16:52:00 GMT
Its been kicked so many times is there anything left of it ?
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duck
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Post by duck on Dec 9, 2019 5:12:51 GMT
I think the can is half way down the road. Unfortunately there are a lot of other cans on this road. This can however , is very much different in its make up and how it came to be. I don't want to turn this thread into another Col/FCA thread, that info is elsewhere but this is how I see the position currently. BDO moved Col from Administration to Liquidation on 10/05/19. When a company is being liquidated the liquidators have a statutory requirement to report once a year so don't expect to hear much from BDO. I have numerous property alerts set but I have seen little movement, I would like to see open marketing of any properties being sold off as opposed to cosy deals being 'negotiated' but I am not on the Creditors Committee so I have no inside knowledge of the goings on. That said I don't expect the outcome after the liquidation to be pretty. The FCAs investigation (possible criminal charges) is ongoing. We should be hearing this month if the investigation is to be extended for another 6 months. I expect it to be but the Complaints Commissioner has his beady eye on the timescale. In reality an extension will have little effect since the extent of our losses is currently unknown, that will only become known at the end of the liquidation. The FCA cynically (I believe) responded to the MPs letter on the day that Parliament was dissolved. Those of you who wrote to your MP and subsequently received the response from the FCA will know that the letter contained many worthy words but failed to address the substantive issues raised. Obviously these questions need to be answered. I will be asking for help again when Parliament is sitting again, a new MPs letter is currently being prepared. I know contacting MPs is not everybody's cup of tea but the first letter had a good response, we need to build on this if we are to maintain pressure on the FCA. As 11025 has said how this debacle came about is very different from Ly, FS and MT, the FCA had a pivotal role. - Collateral told everyone it had FCA permissions.
- The FCA believed Col when they said they had Interim Permissions.
- The FCA displayed Col as having the requisite permissions in its register.
- The FCA accepted a full Part 4A permissions application without checking that it was from the same company that held an Interim Permission.
- The FCA continued discussions with Col for nearly 2 years knowing people were investing.
- When the FCA 'discovered' the issue they continued their discussion with Col for a further 3 months allowing a further +£3m to be invested/lost in an unregulated Company.
The 'lings' and I have documentary proof of all of the above (plus a lot more), it has taken 20 months of daily hard graft to get this far but the picture of the FCAs role is almost complete. The work to reach a satisfactory conclusion continues.
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7d7
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Post by 7d7 on Dec 9, 2019 13:14:07 GMT
I have numerous property alerts set but I have seen little movement, I would like to see open marketing of any properties being sold off as opposed to cosy deals being 'negotiated' but I am not on the Creditors Committee so I have no inside knowledge of the goings on. That said I don't expect the outcome after the liquidation to be pretty. That tells us they are doing next to nothing as the alerts is a barometer of their achievement re property so far. To be fair, the ideal groundwork has been laid for them to act in this manner. It's like a plumber being told they'll get a fixed sum per week for restoring a pipe. Why finish the job promptly when an extra week, month or even year would magnify one's earnings.
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duck
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Post by duck on Dec 9, 2019 13:59:06 GMT
I have numerous property alerts set but I have seen little movement, I would like to see open marketing of any properties being sold off as opposed to cosy deals being 'negotiated' but I am not on the Creditors Committee so I have no inside knowledge of the goings on. That said I don't expect the outcome after the liquidation to be pretty. That tells us they are doing next to nothing as the alerts is a barometer of their achievement re property so far. To be fair, the ideal groundwork has been laid for them to act in this manner. It's like a plumber being told they'll get a fixed sum per week for restoring a pipe. Why finish the job promptly when an extra week, month or even year would magnify one's earnings. Possibly a tad harsh, I've dug into several of the property loans and there is a tangled web that could prove difficult to untangle. That said, to me open marketing will show that the best possible price has been obtained and that the properties have not been simply sold back to the original owner at a cut down price. The best price may of course be offered by the past owner (who obviously knows the potential of the site/development/building) but without signs of open marketing if sales are agreed there will always be suspicions. As I said previously I don't know what is going on in the liquidation, perhaps properties are not being sold yet, not much sign on charges being raised either ......
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 3, 2020 21:49:25 GMT
Things seem to have gone very quiet indeed.
Should I assume a zero recovery ?
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duck
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Post by duck on Jan 4, 2020 5:35:05 GMT
Things seem to have gone very quiet indeed. Should I assume a zero recovery ? Absolutely not but (IMHO) also don't expect to see any cash any time soon. As I put in a previous post " The work to reach a satisfactory conclusion continues. " The issue currently is 'simple'. BDO are progressing the liquidation of the 'assets' and until that is completed we will not know what the recovery from that source is. Personally I don't expect BDO to complete that work for another year. Sorry if that comes as a shock to some. In the meantime the FCA can sit on its hands regarding losses since investors cannot say what their losses are. The FCA's investigation will continue probably until the liquidation is completed, who knows what digging into the individual loans is turning up. Until the liquidation is complete the extent of the problem that they (the FCA) face is 'unknown' although we can all probably come up with a ball park figure. So whilst we saw another 'deferment' to answer the Complaints in December in reality I wouldn't be surprised to see another one in 6 months time. Oh and if you in anyway doubt I am reliably informed that the FCA received another FOI sent well before 5am on Christmas Day. One day they will all have to be answered/ published which will result in a lot of dirty washing appearing in the public domain.
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tommytaylor
P2P - The new wild west
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Post by tommytaylor on Jan 4, 2020 8:48:11 GMT
Things seem to have gone very quiet indeed. Should I assume a zero recovery ? Why would you assume that just because it has been a little quiet on the forums over the festive period?
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tommytaylor
P2P - The new wild west
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Post by tommytaylor on Jan 4, 2020 8:55:13 GMT
Things seem to have gone very quiet indeed. Should I assume a zero recovery ? Absolutely not but (IMHO) also don't expect to see any cash any time soon. As I put in a previous post " The work to reach a satisfactory conclusion continues. " The issue currently is 'simple'. BDO are progressing the liquidation of the 'assets' and until that is completed we will not know what the recovery from that source is. Personally I don't expect BDO to complete that work for another year. Sorry if that comes as a shock to some. In the meantime the FCA can sit on its hands regarding losses since investors cannot say what their losses are. The FCA's investigation will continue probably until the liquidation is completed, who knows what digging into the individual loans is turning up. Until the liquidation is complete the extent of the problem that they (the FCA) face is 'unknown' although we can all probably come up with a ball park figure. So whilst we saw another 'deferment' to answer the Complaints in December in reality I wouldn't be surprised to see another one in 6 months time. Oh and if you in anyway doubt I am reliably informed that the FCA received another FOI sent well before 5am on Christmas Day. One day they will all have to be answered/ published which will result in a lot of dirty washing appearing in the public domain. Duck. Can you see any other case scenario after the losses are known and we have all been paid out that the FCA could not compensate us even though every oiece of information and evidence is currently stacked against them and who knows how much more within the next year? If indeed the FCA refused to compensate then what would be the next port of call against them. Is it true that we would not be allowed to take them to the courts.? Thanks Tony
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duck
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Post by duck on Jan 4, 2020 9:21:10 GMT
Duck. Can you see any other case scenario after the losses are known and we have all been paid out that the FCA could not compensate us even though every oiece of information and evidence is currently stacked against them and who knows how much more within the next year? If indeed the FCA refused to compensate then what would be the next port of call against them. Is it true that we would not be allowed to take them to the courts.? Thanks Tony There is no certainty in this process. The recommendation for ex-gratia payments (against the FCA) comes from the Complaints Commissioner who is fully aware of the circumstances surrounding the demise of Col. The FCA can simply ignore the Complaints Commissioner if he rules in our favour if they are so minded and simply refuse to pay. If this happens the FCA cannot be taken to the courts. This is why the other approaches (Parliament, press etc) are so important, 'shame' is the best tool available to Col investors. There is another 'complication' in that the Complaints Commissioner (who has been very fair and good at his job) reaches the end of his term in the coming months another potential hurdle to overcome .....
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Jan 4, 2020 13:15:17 GMT
Things seem to have gone very quiet indeed. Should I assume a zero recovery ? Absolutely not but (IMHO) also don't expect to see any cash any time soon. As I put in a previous post " The work to reach a satisfactory conclusion continues. " The issue currently is 'simple'. BDO are progressing the liquidation of the 'assets' and until that is completed we will not know what the recovery from that source is. Personally I don't expect BDO to complete that work for another year. Sorry if that comes as a shock to some.In the meantime the FCA can sit on its hands regarding losses since investors cannot say what their losses are. The FCA's investigation will continue probably until the liquidation is completed, who knows what digging into the individual loans is turning up. Until the liquidation is complete the extent of the problem that they (the FCA) face is 'unknown' although we can all probably come up with a ball park figure. So whilst we saw another 'deferment' to answer the Complaints in December in reality I wouldn't be surprised to see another one in 6 months time. Oh and if you in anyway doubt I am reliably informed that the FCA received another FOI sent well before 5am on Christmas Day. One day they will all have to be answered/ published which will result in a lot of dirty washing appearing in the public domain. It’d be surprised if this comes as a surprise given the speed to date
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 4, 2020 15:30:12 GMT
Things seem to have gone very quiet indeed. Should I assume a zero recovery ? Why would you assume that just because it has been a little quiet on the forums over the festive period? I didn't. It was a question mostly born out of being pi**ed off at apparently not much happening and hoping it might prompt someone like Duck to reply. Very grateful to Duck for summarising how it is.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 4, 2020 22:22:41 GMT
The following was posted under a Funding Secure topic but my Reply is regarding Collateral:- Jan 2, 2020 16:19:33 GMT taffy said: The FCA have been "regulating" the actions of several other P/P companies (Lendy, Collateral, etc) as well as investments such as the Neil Woodford Fund. The head of the FCA, Andrew Bailey, will shortly take on the roll of Governor of the Bank of England, may the Lord protect us! Given the FCA`s actions (or inaction), this may turn out to be a scandal on the scale of the PPI fiasco. I suspect lawyers are licking their lips in anticipation, so it's in the best interest of the FCA and the government to sort his mess out sooner rather than later. Keep up the pressure on the FCA and MP`s. ABSOLUTELY!
SO, those who have not yet done so, please lift your fat backside off the sofa and contact duck for his EXCELLENT template/s which make it urine easy to write to your MP and prompt some serious action on this travesty. It really IS the only viable avenue we currently have, SO JUST DO IT! Please.
duck and his Lings have/are concocting a stonking second letter you can send your MP in due course as a follow up to the current/first letter and it will certainly ask even more terror inducing questions which will undoubtedly make the FCA toilets even messier than they currently allegedly are.
Please contact duck and then write to your MP, SUPPORT YOUR FELLOW INVESTORS, we are about to lose a LOT of money through NO fault of our own, the FCA is 100% liable for this excrement storm.
I thank you.
OzBoy.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 5, 2020 21:05:27 GMT
The following was posted under a Funding Secure topic but my Reply is regarding Collateral:- Jan 2, 2020 16:19:33 GMT taffy said: The FCA have been "regulating" the actions of several other P/P companies (Lendy, Collateral, etc) as well as investments such as the Neil Woodford Fund. The head of the FCA, Andrew Bailey, will shortly take on the roll of Governor of the Bank of England, may the Lord protect us! Given the FCA`s actions (or inaction), this may turn out to be a scandal on the scale of the PPI fiasco. I suspect lawyers are licking their lips in anticipation, so it's in the best interest of the FCA and the government to sort his mess out sooner rather than later. Keep up the pressure on the FCA and MP`s. ABSOLUTELY!
SO, those who have not yet done so, please lift your fat backside off the sofa and contact duck for his EXCELLENT template/s which make it urine easy to write to your MP and prompt some serious action on this travesty. It really IS the only viable avenue we currently have, SO JUST DO IT! Please.
duck and his Lings have/are concocting a stonking second letter you can send your MP in due course as a follow up to the current/first letter and it will certainly ask even more terror inducing questions which will undoubtedly make the FCA toilets even messier than they currently allegedly are.
Please contact duck and then write to your MP, SUPPORT YOUR FELLOW INVESTORS, we are about to lose a LOT of money through NO fault of our own, the FCA is 100% liable for this excrement storm.
I thank you.
OzBoy. Why don’t we all get together and get millions to march on parliament to complain about the FCA, Collateral,FS,Lendy et al. We should get lots done as that strategy worked so well for the “ Stop Brexit “ brigade.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 5, 2020 21:34:22 GMT
Well there were two sides to that debate.. I can't find anyone much saying Ly, Col, FS and the fca are all wonderful and blameless. Need at least body armour to take that stance.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 5, 2020 21:55:09 GMT
The following was posted under a Funding Secure topic but my Reply is regarding Collateral:- Jan 2, 2020 16:19:33 GMT taffy said: The FCA have been "regulating" the actions of several other P/P companies (Lendy, Collateral, etc) as well as investments such as the Neil Woodford Fund. The head of the FCA, Andrew Bailey, will shortly take on the roll of Governor of the Bank of England, may the Lord protect us! Given the FCA`s actions (or inaction), this may turn out to be a scandal on the scale of the PPI fiasco. I suspect lawyers are licking their lips in anticipation, so it's in the best interest of the FCA and the government to sort his mess out sooner rather than later. Keep up the pressure on the FCA and MP`s. ABSOLUTELY!
SO, those who have not yet done so, please lift your fat backside off the sofa and contact duck for his EXCELLENT template/s which make it urine easy to write to your MP and prompt some serious action on this travesty. It really IS the only viable avenue we currently have, SO JUST DO IT! Please.
duck and his Lings have/are concocting a stonking second letter you can send your MP in due course as a follow up to the current/first letter and it will certainly ask even more terror inducing questions which will undoubtedly make the FCA toilets even messier than they currently allegedly are.
Please contact duck and then write to your MP, SUPPORT YOUR FELLOW INVESTORS, we are about to lose a LOT of money through NO fault of our own, the FCA is 100% liable for this excrement storm.
I thank you.
OzBoy. Why don’t we all get together and get millions to march on parliament to complain about the FCA, Collateral,FS,Lendy et al. We should get lots done as that strategy worked so well for the “ Stop Brexit “ brigade. Nah, much better to get a big pink diesel boat and block the roads outside the FCA ... bit of traffic distruption is far better to get MPs fawning over you ... anyone got a suitably vocal teenager to act as spokeperson?
That said filling in the blanks on a proforma email is a lot easier so Im with ozboy
PS No need to even get off the sofa, just pull your smartphone out of your pocket.
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