star dust
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Post by star dust on Jan 16, 2020 13:08:38 GMT
Apologies for that jonno , I am very practical and a staunch realist, I easily forget that others don't always share my attitude. I suppose it's because if I expect and condition myself for the worst then I get no surprises, and anything "better" is a win. Cough Talk of anything less than 100% return of Capital will become a self fulfilling prophecy if repeated enough. I expect 100% Return Of Capital. And I expect my Interest too. Yes, yes, I know, BDO's fees have to be paid etc (yawn). All this talk about " Pence in the Pound", why? Remember this is a public site, read by BDO and The FCA undoubtedly. For me, I expect a full return of Capital with some Interest as a minimum. Collateral was a profitable company and there's interest rolling in all the time, or there should be. Collateral didn't go into Administration due to the usual, normal circumstances (insolvency), there's money in the coffers, and being topped up all the time, so why the hell this talk of expecting losses? There are others, how times change With you now
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 16, 2020 13:20:44 GMT
I'm thinking wot everyone's thinking. "Ours" is a counterfeit coin? Dunno about everyone but yes, that was my first thought! You can get 'copies' on ebay...
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Jan 16, 2020 16:11:17 GMT
I'm thinking wot everyone's thinking. "Ours" is a counterfeit coin? It has also occurred to me. Basic question: Was there a valuer named in the loan details? If so, would a non detection of a counterfeit item by an expert valuer qualify for a PI claim?
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Post by mrclondon on Jan 16, 2020 17:22:58 GMT
Basic question: Was there a valuer named in the loan details? No. No indication at all was given as to the basis for the valuation. IIRC one of the lender reports of a visit to COL's Salford offices (I think it was on a blog site, not the visit(s) reported on here) stated that the sons were busily assessing the value of misc bling items at the time. Make of that what you will.
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gc
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Post by gc on Jan 19, 2020 12:39:25 GMT
This can however , is very much different in its make up and how it came to be. I don't want to turn this thread into another Col/FCA thread, that info is elsewhere but this is how I see the position currently. BDO moved Col from Administration to Liquidation on 10/05/19. When a company is being liquidated the liquidators have a statutory requirement to report once a year so don't expect to hear much from BDO. I have numerous property alerts set but I have seen little movement, I would like to see open marketing of any properties being sold off as opposed to cosy deals being 'negotiated' but I am not on the Creditors Committee so I have no inside knowledge of the goings on. That said I don't expect the outcome after the liquidation to be pretty. The FCAs investigation (possible criminal charges) is ongoing. We should be hearing this month if the investigation is to be extended for another 6 months. I expect it to be but the Complaints Commissioner has his beady eye on the timescale. In reality an extension will have little effect since the extent of our losses is currently unknown, that will only become known at the end of the liquidation. The FCA cynically (I believe) responded to the MPs letter on the day that Parliament was dissolved. Those of you who wrote to your MP and subsequently received the response from the FCA will know that the letter contained many worthy words but failed to address the substantive issues raised. Obviously these questions need to be answered. I will be asking for help again when Parliament is sitting again, a new MPs letter is currently being prepared. I know contacting MPs is not everybody's cup of tea but the first letter had a good response, we need to build on this if we are to maintain pressure on the FCA. As 11025 has said how this debacle came about is very different from Ly, FS and MT, the FCA had a pivotal role. - Collateral told everyone it had FCA permissions.
- The FCA believed Col when they said they had Interim Permissions.
- The FCA displayed Col as having the requisite permissions in its register.
- The FCA accepted a full Part 4A permissions application without checking that it was from the same company that held an Interim Permission.
- The FCA continued discussions with Col for nearly 2 years knowing people were investing.
- When the FCA 'discovered' the issue they continued their discussion with Col for a further 3 months allowing a further +£3m to be invested/lost in an unregulated Company.
The 'lings' and I have documentary proof of all of the above (plus a lot more), it has taken 20 months of daily hard graft to get this far but the picture of the FCAs role is almost complete. The work to reach a satisfactory conclusion continues. Great work for collating everything... I would have thought (touchable or not), these grounds alone make any organisation culpable. As one has proof of the above (in red), then this surely makes the FCA negligent and bordering on involved in the scam. At what point in any business does someone go on "belief"!? With all that is happening with these companies, FS, Lendy, Collateral, it is hard to keep a track on all of them, but in this case, even from an onlookers angle, it is impossible to see how the FCA were not seriously culpable in this.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Jan 19, 2020 13:47:05 GMT
I don't want to turn this thread into another Col/FCA thread, that info is elsewhere but this is how I see the position currently. BDO moved Col from Administration to Liquidation on 10/05/19. When a company is being liquidated the liquidators have a statutory requirement to report once a year so don't expect to hear much from BDO. I have numerous property alerts set but I have seen little movement, I would like to see open marketing of any properties being sold off as opposed to cosy deals being 'negotiated' but I am not on the Creditors Committee so I have no inside knowledge of the goings on. That said I don't expect the outcome after the liquidation to be pretty. The FCAs investigation (possible criminal charges) is ongoing. We should be hearing this month if the investigation is to be extended for another 6 months. I expect it to be but the Complaints Commissioner has his beady eye on the timescale. In reality an extension will have little effect since the extent of our losses is currently unknown, that will only become known at the end of the liquidation. The FCA cynically (I believe) responded to the MPs letter on the day that Parliament was dissolved. Those of you who wrote to your MP and subsequently received the response from the FCA will know that the letter contained many worthy words but failed to address the substantive issues raised. Obviously these questions need to be answered. I will be asking for help again when Parliament is sitting again, a new MPs letter is currently being prepared. I know contacting MPs is not everybody's cup of tea but the first letter had a good response, we need to build on this if we are to maintain pressure on the FCA. As 11025 has said how this debacle came about is very different from Ly, FS and MT, the FCA had a pivotal role. - Collateral told everyone it had FCA permissions.
- The FCA believed Col when they said they had Interim Permissions.
- The FCA displayed Col as having the requisite permissions in its register.
- The FCA accepted a full Part 4A permissions application without checking that it was from the same company that held an Interim Permission.
- The FCA continued discussions with Col for nearly 2 years knowing people were investing.
- When the FCA 'discovered' the issue they continued their discussion with Col for a further 3 months allowing a further +£3m to be invested/lost in an unregulated Company.
The 'lings' and I have documentary proof of all of the above (plus a lot more), it has taken 20 months of daily hard graft to get this far but the picture of the FCAs role is almost complete. The work to reach a satisfactory conclusion continues. Great work for collating everything... I would have thought (touchable or not), these grounds alone make any organisation culpable. As one has proof of the above (in red), then this surely makes the FCA negligent and bordering on involved in the scam. At what point in any business does someone go on "belief"!? With all that is happening with these companies, FS, Lendy, Collateral, it is hard to keep a track on all of them, but in this case, even from an onlookers angle, it is impossible to see how the FCA were not seriously culpable in this.You are correct gc. Of all the avoidable P2P collapses (and they were avoidable, if the FCA did even half its job), COLL is unique and its Investors did absolutely nothing wrong, except to follow clear FCA/Government advice, as instructed! For which we now stand to lose our shirts. The FCA is 100% complicit and guilty in the COLL collapse, they caused it, and aided, abetted and perpetuated it even before the collapse. Bailey, however, calls it ............. "unfortunate"!!!!
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Post by brightspark on Jan 19, 2020 15:35:44 GMT
Presumably those who have written to their MP will in due course receive responses. Is there a mechanism whereby such replies are collated and perhaps responded too, again, perhaps more or less generically. Individual investors who do not necessarily understand every twist and turn of the argument or appreciate its various nuances might inadvertently weaken the case with an inappropriate answer.
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duck
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Post by duck on Jan 19, 2020 18:03:52 GMT
I can't disagree with anything you have written above gc .
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duck
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Post by duck on Jan 19, 2020 18:22:38 GMT
Presumably those who have written to their MP will in due course receive responses. Is there a mechanism whereby such replies are collated and perhaps responded too, again, perhaps more or less generically. Individual investors who do not necessarily understand every twist and turn of the argument or appreciate its various nuances might inadvertently weaken the case with an inappropriate answer. Many investors who have received responses have passed the information/feedback to me by PM (many thanks to those that have). A second letter is being prepared that will be made available at the appropriate time. This letter will address the shortcomings of the FCAs initial response. You raise a valid point brightspark and that is why we will be making the second letter available as we did with the previous one. Whilst I provided a synopsis of the 'goings on' in the post that has been quoted there is very tangled web of documentation behind those points, most of which hasn't seen the light of day. Whilst I and 'the lings' have gathered this information through various means (legal means I hasten to say) over the past 23 months there is no way that investors would be able to piece the web together without the gathered information. If any Col investor has questions related to the FCA or approach to make with an MP (I can't help on the Liquidation) just drop me a PM and I will do my best to help.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 19, 2020 21:01:00 GMT
Sterling work duck and Co, Outstanding really, please keep it up. You are supported. 👍
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tommytaylor
P2P - The new wild west
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Post by tommytaylor on Jan 20, 2020 10:05:12 GMT
Sterling work duck and Co, Outstanding really, please keep it up. You are supported. 👍 I echo what Ozzie just said. You could have easily just sat back and looked after yourself but NO , you are hell bent at helping everyone who is stuck in this quagmire. My hat off to you Duck. Makes me feel a whole lot more positive that things like this are going on behind the scenes and i am positive that we will see our money back at the end of a long day. Tony
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Post by waryinvestor on Feb 7, 2020 15:13:13 GMT
Any updates on the Recoveries or Payments ? we were supposed to receive some update months back ! And, has the website been sorted yet so that people can have a view of their holdings and transactions ?
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Post by brightspark on Feb 7, 2020 16:19:04 GMT
Last update on the BDO website is dated 23/12/2019. I don't recall seeing anything more recent.
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Feb 7, 2020 20:36:13 GMT
Any updates on the Recoveries or Payments ? we were supposed to receive some update months back ! And, has the website been sorted yet so that people can have a view of their holdings and transactions ? I don’t know about the website being sorted but it certainly was indicated that we each would have a breakdown of our balances “when feasible” gawd knows when that will be from this shower
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Feb 7, 2020 22:01:34 GMT
I'd understood that it was likely the next update was going to come in April.
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