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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 12:08:12 GMT
Does it matter. Having had family members on the wrong side of currency collapses I think it does.
Humans are pretty good at dealing with rapid change but useless at slow change.
During currency collapse civil society comes under stress. The poorer get poorer fast and far right/ left groups come out from under a stone along with the corrupt. I'd like to avoid that for my country.
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hazellend
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Sterling
Aug 20, 2019 13:25:11 GMT
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Post by hazellend on Aug 20, 2019 13:25:11 GMT
Does it matter. Having had family members on the wrong side of currency collapses I think it does. Humans are pretty good at dealing with rapid change but useless at slow change. During currency collapse civil society comes under stress. The poorer get poorer fast and far right/ left groups come out from under a stone along with the corrupt. I'd like to avoid that for my country. Interesting. Apart from Weimar and Zimbabwe and I’m not really aware of any significant currency collapses, but I suppose they’re out there. We went to Iceland in 2009 after their currency “collapsed” and things seemed ok
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 20, 2019 13:37:33 GMT
Does it matter. Having had family members on the wrong side of currency collapses I think it does. Humans are pretty good at dealing with rapid change but useless at slow change. During currency collapse civil society comes under stress. The poorer get poorer fast and far right/ left groups come out from under a stone along with the corrupt. I'd like to avoid that for my country. Interesting. Apart from Weimar and Zimbabwe and I’m not really aware of any significant currency collapses, but I suppose they’re out there. We went to Iceland in 2009 after their currency “collapsed” and things seemed ok Possibly depends what you call a collapse, but Turkey (several times and currently), Argentina (several times and currently), Iceland, Venezeula (currently) should probably all count.
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Post by mrclondon on Aug 20, 2019 14:07:06 GMT
Look its simple, under Boris sterling will drop, under Corbyn sterling will drop. It is UK gov policy to drop sterling, it has been for 55+ years. After 2021 recession it might drift up for a bit then down again. If you don't educate people (and we don't) then the currency will fall. Spot on.
You highlight weakness in education provision, which then feeds into poor workplace productivity. We (as a nation) pay far too many people far more than their work contributes in value add, and hence the currency has to fall (gradually, but long term) for UK exports (goods & services) to remain competitive on world markets.
Its worth looking at a graph of GBP vs USD for the last 45 yrs ( www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-USD and select 'All' as the timeframe ). The drop in the early 80's from 2.4 to 1.1 seems to have been forgotten by many (or not considered relevant by younger brits) .... a drop that significantly boosted competiveness of the UK. Since the low of Feb 85, the average has been around 1.5, and cripplingly high 2003-8
The directors of companies I know which export (goods and / or services) all fear the markets pushing the GBP/USD rate back above 1.4 which would be very likely if for any reason brexit got revoked.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Aug 20, 2019 15:02:24 GMT
Look its simple, under Boris sterling will drop, under Corbyn sterling will drop. It is UK gov policy to drop sterling, it has been for 55+ years. After 2021 recession it might drift up for a bit then down again. If you don't educate people (and we don't) then the currency will fall. Spot on.
You highlight weakness in education provision, which then feeds into poor workplace productivity. We (as a nation) pay far too many people far more than their work contributes in value add, and hence the currency has to fall (gradually, but long term) for UK exports (goods & services) to remain competitive on world markets.
Its worth looking at a graph of GBP vs USD for the last 45 yrs ( www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-USD and select 'All' as the timeframe ). The drop in the early 80's from 2.4 to 1.1 seems to have been forgotten by many (or not considered relevant by younger brits) .... a drop that significantly boosted competiveness of the UK. Since the low of Feb 85, the average has been around 1.5, and cripplingly high 2003-8
The directors of companies I know which export (goods and / or services) all fear the markets pushing the GBP/USD rate back above 1.4 which would be very likely if for any reason brexit got revoked.
But wages in America seem to be a lot higher like for like so your point about pay doesn’t seem to hold up. Wages in this country for some skilled vocations actually seem far too low to me.
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Post by mrclondon on Aug 20, 2019 15:48:49 GMT
Spot on. You highlight weakness in education provision, which then feeds into poor workplace productivity. We (as a nation) pay far too many people far more than their work contributes in value add, and hence the currency has to fall (gradually, but long term) for UK exports (goods & services) to remain competitive on world markets. [...] But wages in America seem to be a lot higher like for like so your point about pay doesn’t seem to hold up. Wages in this country for some skilled vocations actually seem far too low to me. Yeah, US wages are higher job title vs job title, but at 1.2 GBP:USD not by that much in the engineering / manufacturing sector (and the various service sectors that support them). However, my experience is they achieve far more for that annual salary than the comparable Brit in essentially the same job.
By another measure, it is slightly bizarre that so many of my peer group here in the UK have, like me, opted to retire from full time employment in their late 40's/early 50's having accumulated a "small fortune" for relatively little "work" over a 25-30 year working life (The current lifetime cap on pension rights of c. £1m is partly to blame here of course, as is the marginal tax rate of 60% for the salaries (£100k-£125k) many professionals in the later stages of their careers achieve.)
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hazellend
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Aug 20, 2019 16:05:57 GMT
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Post by hazellend on Aug 20, 2019 16:05:57 GMT
But wages in America seem to be a lot higher like for like so your point about pay doesn’t seem to hold up. Wages in this country for some skilled vocations actually seem far too low to me. Yeah, US wages are higher job title vs job title, but at 1.2 GBP:USD not by that much in the engineering / manufacturing sector (and the various service sectors that support them). However, my experience is they achieve far more for that annual salary than the comparable Brit in essentially the same job.
By another measure, it is slightly bizarre that so many of my peer group here in the UK have, like me, opted to retire from full time employment in their late 40's/early 50's having accumulated a "small fortune" for relatively little "work" over a 25-30 year working life (The current lifetime cap on pension rights of c. £1m is partly to blame here of course, as is the marginal tax rate of 60% for the salaries (£100k-£125k) many professionals in the later stages of their careers achieve.) I guess part of the improved productivity in USA is the fact they seem to get far less paid leave than us seen in the rest of the western world. Early retirement (FIRE movement) is far more mainstream in the states. There appears to be a high percentage of engineers posting on the bogleheads and mr money moustache forums
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Aug 20, 2019 16:20:11 GMT
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Post by mrclondon on Aug 20, 2019 16:49:02 GMT
I guess part of the improved productivity in USA is the fact they seem to get far less paid leave than us seen in the rest of the western world. Productivity is usually measured in terms of output per time worked, though.
Yep, and this is where the americans I've worked with seem to score, and it comes back to @bobo 's original point about education. I still do some bits of consultancy which essentially boils downs to analysis of manufacturing data looking for performance and quality inconsistencies etc in machinery and processes. Much of this work involves writing bespoke code to be able detect patterns in what a machine outputing hundreds of 'widgets' an hour is reporting for example. When working for American companies, I often find the staff I deal with (even a non technical PA whose role is to arrange telconferences) will take an interest in the process I've adopted to get from raw data to consultancy report conclusions, and question whether a similiar process could be applied to other aspects of the company's business. So after delivering a report on manufacturing performance, its not uncommon to be asked to devise a means of analysing expenses, or energy consumption, or even canteen food wastage.
But by contrast staff at the UK companies I've dealt with in general take less interest in what is happening around them if it doesn't relate directly to their specific role. Education must be a part of this, as is the predominance of micky-mouse degrees held by many support staff. Senior management / board level PA's in US will typically have a business or finance degree of some sort where as in the UK it will more often be some 'soft skills' subject (media studies, public relations etc).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 16:54:51 GMT
I've run project mngmt teams in Korea, USA, Czech, France and the UK. The work rates in these other countries was significantly above that for the UK and pay/ job titles were similar. The Koreans thought. 6 day week 8 until 8 was reasonable.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Aug 20, 2019 18:09:54 GMT
Productivity is usually measured in terms of output per time worked, though.
Yep, and this is where the americans I've worked with seem to score, and it comes back to @bobo 's original point about education. I still do some bits of consultancy which essentially boils downs to analysis of manufacturing data looking for performance and quality inconsistencies etc in machinery and processes. Much of this work involves writing bespoke code to be able detect patterns in what a machine outputing hundreds of 'widgets' an hour is reporting for example. When working for American companies, I often find the staff I deal with (even a non technical PA whose role is to arrange telconferences) will take an interest in the process I've adopted to get from raw data to consultancy report conclusions, and question whether a similiar process could be applied to other aspects of the company's business. So after delivering a report on manufacturing performance, its not uncommon to be asked to devise a means of analysing expenses, or energy consumption, or even canteen food wastage.
But by contrast staff at the UK companies I've dealt with in general take less interest in what is happening around them if it doesn't relate directly to their specific role. Education must be a part of this, as is the predominance of micky-mouse degrees held by many support staff. Senior management / board level PA's in US will typically have a business or finance degree of some sort where as in the UK it will more often be some 'soft skills' subject (media studies, public relations etc).
Does the higher level of intelligence in the lower levels suggest more people are overqualified for their position in the states or the opposite in the U.K.? My personal preference, even though I have had to work extremely hard and still do, is for a society that has a lot of leisure time (preferably for outdoor pursuits and not something like gaming) and less time at work. The 60% tax cliff and pension input taxes are huge psychological disincentives to me, although may not be to others. I’m now taking 10 weeks annual leave a year on top of 10 public holidays to manage my salary appropriately. I don’t actually want to do this but can’t bring myself to work for free (my marginal rate can hit 80 to more than 100% income tax)
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Post by mrclondon on Aug 20, 2019 19:36:24 GMT
Does the higher level of intelligence in the lower levels suggest more people are overqualified for their position in the states or the opposite in the U.K.? In the terms you posed the question, underqualified in the UK. But I think that is not the whole story, I think "wrongly" qualified in the UK is perhaps more to the point, and by that I mean primarily the preference for micky-mouse degrees over more vocational qualifications that are role specific.
When I started my working life in the 1980's secretarial/clerical staff (for UK operations of multinational manufacturers) would typically be recruited with a HNC/HND in some sort of secretarial / clerical / business admin course (or a couple of years work experience 18-20), and the brighter examples a few years later encouraged to do a part time (sponsored) degree (a prequiste for progression to PA positions).
But by the late 80's/early 90's the world of work was changing, and changing fast, and for that I blame a certain Bill Gates ! (and IBM). I was suddenly expected to type my own reports, meeting minutes etc. I no longer needed someone to type out telexes, as the fax machine did the same job. By 2000 I no longer needed someone to book flights / hotels etc. The days of companies recruiting significant numbers of secretarial staff were gone, and you are expected to be your own secretary until you reach senior management positions when a PA is suddenly available. However these days the average PA hasn't had years of experience of working in the organisation, and strangely feels less equiped for the role, even if they have a relevant degree.
This is true the world over of course, but somehow other countries seem to retain a more vocational approach to training the lower levels in organisations. I've focussed here on the clerical side, but the same applies on the manufacturing shop floor, where the operators in the US seem more aware of "the bigger picture" .... they'll tell me "I suggested xyz, but was told it wasn't cost effective." Their Brit equivalent mumbles under their breath "blo*dy consultants".
It has to be said of course that its easy to over generalise ... most of my work has been with companies in the rust belt (i.e. the north), but visits to the southern states have a very different feel, right down to the efficiency of the average hotel reception desk.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Aug 20, 2019 20:02:52 GMT
I was suddenly expected to type my own reports, meeting minutes etc. The days of the typing pool are long since gone.
Before retirement I was a project manager in the construction industry. When I complained to my line manager that I had too much admin type work to do he suggested I went on a course to learn how to type faster.
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Post by mrclondon on Aug 20, 2019 20:19:01 GMT
I was suddenly expected to type my own reports, meeting minutes etc. The days of the typing pool are long since gone.
Before retirement I was a project manager in the construction industry. When I complained to my line manager that I had too much admin type work to do he suggested I went on a course to learn how to type faster.
Indeed so ! (And greatly missed, but I'm happy to forego being booked into the wrong hotel in some foreign country in a town with a vaguely similiar name to the one I was visiting)
However, I have occaisonally used online workplaces to get (scanned) hand written notes transcribed (into something that resembles English), but does require clearer handwriting than my norm. Just need to be aware of any NDA issues .... but if (in my case) the notes are of a meeting with some Korean machine manufacturer to fgure out how to get a machine to tell me something useful, I tend to consider there is no issue. Also incrediably useful for getting non English docs translated at an economic rate.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Aug 20, 2019 21:16:06 GMT
Does the higher level of intelligence in the lower levels suggest more people are overqualified for their position in the states or the opposite in the U.K.? In the terms you posed the question, underqualified in the UK. But I think that is not the whole story, I think "wrongly" qualified in the UK is perhaps more to the point, and by that I mean primarily the preference for micky-mouse degrees over more vocational qualifications that are role specific.
When I started my working life in the 1980's secretarial/clerical staff (for UK operations of multinational manufacturers) would typically be recruited with a HNC/HND in some sort of secretarial / clerical / business admin course (or a couple of years work experience 18-20), and the brighter examples a few years later encouraged to do a part time (sponsored) degree (a prequiste for progression to PA positions).
But by the late 80's/early 90's the world of work was changing, and changing fast, and for that I blame a certain Bill Gates ! (and IBM). I was suddenly expected to type my own reports, meeting minutes etc. I no longer needed someone to type out telexes, as the fax machine did the same job. By 2000 I no longer needed someone to book flights / hotels etc. The days of companies recruiting significant numbers of secretarial staff were gone, and you are expected to be your own secretary until you reach senior management positions when a PA is suddenly available. However these days the average PA hasn't had years of experience of working in the organisation, and strangely feels less equiped for the role, even if they have a relevant degree.
This is true the world over of course, but somehow other countries seem to retain a more vocational approach to training the lower levels in organisations. I've focussed here on the clerical side, but the same applies on the manufacturing shop floor, where the operators in the US seem more aware of "the bigger picture" .... they'll tell me "I suggested xyz, but was told it wasn't cost effective." Their Brit equivalent mumbles under their breath "blo*dy consultants".
It has to be said of course that its easy to over generalise ... most of my work has been with companies in the rust belt (i.e. the north), but visits to the southern states have a very different feel, right down to the efficiency of the average hotel reception desk.
even that's not what it used to be - PA's often shared these days (which takes the P out of the A).
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