macq
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Post by macq on Aug 20, 2019 15:56:11 GMT
the rest of the current loan & new loan involves R****** C*****L as mentioned in the doc's.So assuming its the same One i found at companies house (i.e ending in Ltd) should i be concerned by their accounts filing issue?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Aug 20, 2019 16:10:36 GMT
Not currently but I have manged to grab some by staying patient and keeping my bid for less than 100%. Anyway my question is answered, there is no material difference between the two. Thanks It’s often not a discount if you are waiting a long time because of loss of interest.
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withnell
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Post by withnell on Aug 20, 2019 16:21:54 GMT
the rest of the current loan & new loan involves R****** C*****L as mentioned in the doc's.So assuming its the same One i found at companies house (i.e ending in Ltd) should i be concerned by their accounts filing issue? The borrowing entity is fully up to date with accounts, up to Nov-18 was submitted in June. I suspect you're looking at a previous owner? Try your same trick but with the borrower name listed on ABL!
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macq
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Post by macq on Aug 20, 2019 16:27:30 GMT
the rest of the current loan & new loan involves R****** C*****L as mentioned in the doc's.So assuming its the same One i found at companies house (i.e ending in Ltd) should i be concerned by their accounts filing issue? The borrowing entity is fully up to date with accounts, up to Nov-18 was submitted in June. I suspect you're looking at a previous owner? Try your same trick but with the borrower name listed on ABL! Not the borrower i was looking at but R****** C*****L the company lending the rest of the money on page 3 of the proposal with accounts due in April assuming there is only One with that name
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pi
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Post by pi on Aug 21, 2019 9:27:54 GMT
Not currently but I have manged to grab some by staying patient and keeping my bid for less than 100%. Anyway my question is answered, there is no material difference between the two. Thanks It’s often not a discount if you are waiting a long time because of loss of interest. Depends on individual Tax and CGT circumstances.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Aug 21, 2019 9:50:12 GMT
It’s often not a discount if you are waiting a long time because of loss of interest. Depends on individual Tax and CGT circumstances. Probably going to be negligible unless very large amounts
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Aug 21, 2019 10:00:31 GMT
Does this loan not increase the risk of the current second charge loan which has amortised significantly?
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withnell
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Post by withnell on Aug 21, 2019 10:58:23 GMT
Does this loan not increase the risk of the current second charge loan which has amortised significantly? Mixed bag based on recovery - I've assumed a 50:50 split on the 2nd charge for recoveries Current - recovery required of 1,200k plus to get anything back Future - recovery over 900k gives a capital return. Recovery is improved for low recoveries. Future gives same or better off in all scenarios except recoveries in the range 1,500k to 1,850k EDIT: I've also assumed that 600k is due, as I don't know what balance is actually outstanding on 107
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Aug 21, 2019 11:05:28 GMT
Does this loan not increase the risk of the current second charge loan which has amortised significantly? Mixed bag based on recovery - I've assumed a 50:50 split on the 2nd charge for recoveries Current - recovery required of 1,200k plus to get anything back Future - recovery over 900k gives a capital return. Recovery is improved for low recoveries. Future gives same or better off in all scenarios except recoveries in the range 1,500k to 1,850k EDIT: I've also assumed that 600k is due, as I don't know what balance is actually outstanding on 107 Just under 500k outstanding on 107
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KoR_Wraith
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Post by KoR_Wraith on Aug 21, 2019 20:39:21 GMT
Does this loan not increase the risk of the current second charge loan which has amortised significantly? The only negative I see is that it puts increased strain on borrower cashflow, as the new amortising loan replaces an interest only loan.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 22, 2019 8:19:51 GMT
ABL have previously commented that they use NRK in a professional capacity, installing him as a director in borrower companies to provide extra scrutiny - per Companies House, he was appointed 28 September 2018 which is the same day as drawdown of the first loan (107) That does not explain why he was a director in 2014.
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macq
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Post by macq on Aug 22, 2019 9:42:05 GMT
ABL have previously commented that they use NRK in a professional capacity, installing him as a director in borrower companies to provide extra scrutiny - per Companies House, he was appointed 28 September 2018 which is the same day as drawdown of the first loan (107) That does not explain why he was a director in 2014.- Been looking for 5 minutes on CH and seem to have found 3 companies connected - that is the One ending in Ltd that seems to have been dormant in 2014 before starting up again & trading and another company but ending Group Ltd instead and the One with Middlesbrough in the name which seems not to share that director
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 22, 2019 12:04:27 GMT
The borrower is ... Group Limited. The gentlemen mentioned is a director. The company name was changed in 2016. The gentleman was a director of the same company (different company name) in 2014 but resigned. I am saying that you should assume that the directors of the company are their to look after their own interests and the interests of the company. It would be very unwise to assume that any director is appointed by or on behalf of Ablrate to look after the interests of Ablrate lenders, unless Ablrate says so. Personally I do not think the connectedness by this name with other loans is due to Ablrate. By the way, when you go to downland the borrowing proposal for this loan, you may notice that the file name is C....TopUp. Quite so.
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macq
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Post by macq on Aug 22, 2019 12:32:52 GMT
The borrower is ... Group Limited. The gentlemen mentioned is a director. The company name was changed in 2016. The gentleman was a director of the same company (different company name) in 2014 but resigned. I am saying that you should assume that the directors of the company are their to look after their own interests and the interests of the company. It would be very unwise to assume that any director is appointed by or on behalf of Ablrate to look after the interests of Ablrate lenders, unless Ablrate says so. Personally I do not think the connectedness by this name with other loans is due to Ablrate. By the way, when you go to downland the borrowing proposal for this loan, you may notice that the file name is C....TopUp. Quite so. thanks - i followed the Abl charge to the Group listing but the R****** charge to all 3 on CH so it all feels intertwined, even if probably its not
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 22, 2019 15:42:32 GMT
The borrower is ... Group Limited. The gentlemen mentioned is a director. The company name was changed in 2016. The gentleman was a director of the same company (different company name) in 2014 but resigned. I am saying that you should assume that the directors of the company are their to look after their own interests and the interests of the company. It would be very unwise to assume that any director is appointed by or on behalf of Ablrate to look after the interests of Ablrate lenders, unless Ablrate says so. Personally I do not think the connectedness by this name with other loans is due to Ablrate. By the way, when you go to downland the borrowing proposal for this loan, you may notice that the file name is C....TopUp. Quite so. thanks - i followed the Abl charge to the Group listing but the R****** charge to all 3 on CH so it all feels intertwined, even if probably its not Very intertwined as both companies are subsiduaries of our borrower (operating cos?) so would be assets in the event of recovery under the debenture. The debentures over these two subsiduaries basically give R claim on everything relating to the properties, insurance, contracts etc. The Abalrate debenture doesnt have these schedules.
As far as the director, I suspect his previous involvement with the subsiduary is why the parent ended up on Ablrate once who took over ACF, its introducer.
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