IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Oct 4, 2019 10:47:48 GMT
iM**t as predicted
the loan details give a purchase price of £750,000 at one point, then under security state a purchase price of £1,000,000. Perhaps ABL can clarify?
third charge on the IP (which in any case is somewhat speculative in value)
still, for 13% (to us, plus another 7% to ABL) one can't really expect the most solid security.
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 4, 2019 11:13:46 GMT
I think I have to congratulate ablrate on the quality of the presentation and the depth and completeness of the information provided. Others can judge the risk. I am biased as an ex-engineer and keen to see a UK start-up creating IP, exploiting it at home and abroad and using UK manufacturing - when you would feel this might have gone to China very easily. The target co looks attractive in its own right. No connexion with the other main groups of connected loans. What's not to like? Tell me someone? I liked the IOM plane project also, for a year or so.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Oct 4, 2019 11:14:52 GMT
The company being bought with this latest loan round made an operating profit of £42k. This was £188k for YE Sept 2017, so it has reduced.
This company is being used as collateral, alongside the IP which keeps being used again to borrow more money and the IP will be challenging to sell.
As @ifisacava states, one has to be willing to take risk for such a ROI, but the security on this doesn't look great.
Still, I'll be investing as the borrower has an excellent track-record with their payments on the two previous loans through ABL. That's what this is about.
Do ABL charge as high as 7% to borrowers? Is that a typical percentage for borrowings through ABL?
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Oct 4, 2019 11:29:52 GMT
The company being bought with this latest loan round made an operating profit of £42k. This was £188k for YE Sept 2017, so it has reduced. This company is being used as collateral, alongside the IP which keeps being used again to borrow more money and the IP will be challenging to sell. As @ifisacava states, one has to be willing to take risk for such a ROI, but the security on this doesn't look great. Still, I'll be investing as the borrower has an excellent track-record with their payments on the two previous loans through ABL. That's what this is about. Do ABL charge as high as 7% to borrowers? Is that a typical percentage for borrowings through ABL?I've seen lower on some loans, eg 4%, but 7% is not out of the ordinary.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Oct 4, 2019 11:47:04 GMT
I think I have to congratulate ablrate on the quality of the presentation and the depth and completeness of the information provided. Others can judge the risk. I am biased as an ex-engineer and keen to see a UK start-up creating IP, exploiting it at home and abroad and using UK manufacturing - when you would feel this might have gone to China very easily. The target co looks attractive in its own right. No connexion with the other main groups of connected loans. What's not to like? Tell me someone? I liked the IOM plane project also, for a year or so. I will try. There is a clear synergy in the purchase. Yes there is 'credit' that it is a British (Nottingham) company, albeit using imported CNC machinery and possibly not having many alternative markets currently. On the down side (and its quite large) there really are negligible assets involved. The main product never was that ground breaking and generating demand has always been its weakness going forward. I would suggest on most platforms it would 'be laughed out of town', the question really is, is the Ablrate factor strong enough.
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KoR_Wraith
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Post by KoR_Wraith on Oct 4, 2019 12:03:10 GMT
I'm not able to provide much insight on this loan but I thought it worth pointing out that the company seems to be hitting the financial projections put forward in their first loan offering over a year ago.
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 4, 2019 12:44:37 GMT
The company being bought with this latest loan round made an operating profit of £42k. This was £188k for YE Sept 2017, so it has reduced. This company is being used as collateral, alongside the IP which keeps being used again to borrow more money and the IP will be challenging to sell. As @ifisacava states, one has to be willing to take risk for such a ROI, but the security on this doesn't look great. Still, I'll be investing as the borrower has an excellent track-record with their payments on the two previous loans through ABL. That's what this is about. Do ABL charge as high as 7% to borrowers? Is that a typical percentage for borrowings through ABL? Agreed, and it seems that the target has a rather low gross margin around 27% and 2017 may have been a positive blip. We have no p&l for 2016 but the cumulative profits reduced. This vertical integration could help? Agree, and with VI, about the security, though I have never been still in an Ablrate loan when the security became important - and hope never to be. I suppose I must be impressed with the change from 131 to 132. Abl state their monthly fee on all loans in the borrowing proposal - this 7% is on the lower side, but the total sum of three loans provides a substantial income.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Dec 2, 2019 17:44:56 GMT
I am on a rather curious 'winning streak', I post that a loan is clearly not going to fill and it is time to call it a day and almost instantly it fills despite all logic. As a consequence I will try a different tactic.
So no listing days left and only 66% filled after the fat end of two months, pretty sure this one will cross the line this week.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 2, 2019 18:22:30 GMT
I am on a rather curious 'winning streak', I post that a loan is clearly not going to fill and it is time to call it a day and almost instantly it fills despite all logic. As a consequence I will try a different tactic. So no listing days left and only 66% filled after the fat end of two months, pretty sure this one will cross the line this week. This (134) is a case of the glass-half-full or glass-half-empty perspective that we hear so often. The solution is to consider that the glass is bigger than it needs to be, and to use a glass half the size, which is immediately full. I think that 132 is not going to fill, but will wait two days, for the full two months of listing, before saying so. Will it be for the underwriters or the undertakers? If the latter then I could move my cash to that nice (relatively) property loan. It's a tough time for p2p but there would be more cash for new loans if a certain business owner was not routinely permitted to decline to pay back loans on maturity, without penalty, and with stories about the timing of major refinancing. Ablrate has no choice, I suppose.
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jryan
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Post by jryan on Dec 2, 2019 21:49:28 GMT
if a certain business owner was not routinely permitted to decline to pay back loans on maturity, without penalty, and with stories about the timing of major refinancing.
I get this quite a bit here in New Zealand. Borrowers are always full of it when it comes to late in the day "refinance" deals that are touted. They always end up being conditional on something that never works out. So we just now routinely start proceedings (PLA notice) and if the refi deal arrives we will halt them. Obviously this is residential property though so differs quite a bit to equipment and asset financing etc. Anyway, you might be right about Ablrate being stuck between a rock and a hard place with these guys.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 4, 2019 16:25:45 GMT
This loan, 132, has now been open for two months, having been extended for a second month, without any notice that I recall. The minimum of £750k (page 11) has not been reached and it has been stuck around £600k for some time. Is it not time to give up on this - assuming that there are no underwriters? I might then move my stake to the other loan. Or what is the plan?
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macq
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Post by macq on Dec 4, 2019 16:32:00 GMT
This loan, 132, has now been open for two months, having been extended for a second month, without any notice that I recall. The minimum of £750k (page 11) has not been reached and it has been stuck around £600k for some time. Is it not time to give up on this - assuming that there are no underwriters? I might then move my stake to the other loan. Or what is the plan? email yesterday - minimum reduced to £700,000 staying open for another 2 weeks
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Post by darren on Dec 4, 2019 16:33:39 GMT
blender did you see the admin note posted yesterday? The target has been lowered to £700k and it's extended to about the 17th.
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des
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Post by des on Dec 4, 2019 18:16:57 GMT
blender did you see the admin note posted yesterday? The target has been lowered to £700k and it's extended to about the 17th. No. I did not receive an email, despite having a sum involved. That contradicts undertakings given in the borrowing proposal, page 11, which states a minimum required of £750k, the cost of the acquisition. What can we rely on?
No emails received here either
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Dec 4, 2019 22:21:48 GMT
No. I did not receive an email, despite having a sum involved. That contradicts undertakings given in the borrowing proposal, page 11, which states a minimum required of £750k, the cost of the acquisition. What can we rely on?
No emails received here either Not to worry, probably be another chance in a fortnight when they decide £602,000 will be enough.
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