jcm9000
Member of DD Central
Posts: 181 
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Post by jcm9000 on Oct 23, 2019 12:48:16 GMT
At least there doesn't appear to be games here with the administrator choice, the website has been preserved (I downloaded my holdings), the FCA (for all they are worth) are engaged on it (or so we are told), and it isn't BDO (hooray!). Who knows, this may hasten an actual return of funds on my many multiple-year old loans. Still regretting the day I ever heard of P2P....
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arby
Member of DD Central
Posts: 910
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Post by arby on Oct 23, 2019 12:54:46 GMT
At least there doesn't appear to be games here with the administrator choice, the website has been preserved (I downloaded my holdings), the FCA (for all they are worth) are engaged on it (or so we are told), and it isn't BDO (hooray!). Who knows, this may hasten an actual return of funds on my many multiple-year old loans. Still regretting the day I ever heard of P2P.... If it really can be a professionally managed run off then it's exactly what we've all been wanting, just under another name. However, there is always a cost to a speedy and professional resolution....
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jcm9000
Member of DD Central
Posts: 181
Likes: 153
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Post by jcm9000 on Oct 23, 2019 13:08:55 GMT
At least there doesn't appear to be games here with the administrator choice, the website has been preserved (I downloaded my holdings), the FCA (for all they are worth) are engaged on it (or so we are told), and it isn't BDO (hooray!). Who knows, this may hasten an actual return of funds on my many multiple-year old loans. Still regretting the day I ever heard of P2P.... If it really can be a professionally managed run off then it's exactly what we've all been wanting, just under another name. However, there is always a cost to a speedy and professional resolution.... Oh don't I know it. BDO partners are sure making a pretty penny off the backs of many of us here. They are not on my Christmas Card list.
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bugs4me
Member of DD Central
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Post by bugs4me on Oct 23, 2019 13:17:38 GMT
Sad and frustrated is probably a fair reflection of my thoughts today.
p2p could have been, should have been, far more than the mess of failure it is today. The warning signs were there mid 2017, before the recent high profile failures started. I really thought in the early days of p2p we were on the cusp of something revolutionary ... harnessing the collective knowledge and experience of those with money to invest (a proxy for 'successful' people, not a perfect correlation but close) to enable others to become 'successful' by undertaking 'projects' financed by us.
Just like dragons den most projects would fail to pass the whiff test, and would be dropped, a virtuous circle. Instead, platforms ignored the concerns of those able to apply their knowlege and experience and spot those projects that had a low probability of success, and allowed the ready supply of funds to fill the loans. Some platforms have tolerated the interventions on this forum, but ultimately ignored them, others have fought (and continue to fight) against having potential dirty linen aired in public.
p2p platforms are essentially small tech startups, staffed by people with varying amounts of real life experience in the asset classes they are offering loans against. The governance of these platforms has been weak, with few outside the big players employing non-executive directors whose role it is to support, mentor and when neccessary challenge the executive team.
If this reads like an obituary for p2p, then that is perhaps a fair inference. I have deliberately not referenced FS here, today's events are a mere sympton of a wider malaise.
In the early days, P2P was on the cusp of something revolutionary. But then greed crept in - yes I know that greed was often played by lenders who by their convenient ignorance simply piled cash into the platform - any platform strongly believing that those 12% returns were a guarantee. But far more greed was demonstrated by the platforms themselves who were driven by platform liquidity and of course as it wasn't their funds then there were several undesirables allowed into the borrowing sector irrespective as to the merits of the loan proposal.
In the case of FS, it was obvious they could not carry on. There were and still are far too many unanswered questions regarding their duty of care towards lenders, the connection between platform owners/directors and borrowers, why some loans were defaulted and others simply can kicked from here to infinity and beyond. It was a situation that could not be resolved without destroying the platform. So time to turn off the lights and let someone else sort out the mess and yes, there will be 100% losses and any returns will no doubt be pennies in the pound.
This could be the final nail in the coffin for traditional P2P especially with the new FCA regulations coming into play. P2P will cease to exist in it's purist form and evolve into a niche market. Certainly not something for us 'normals' in my view. A very sad day but after writing down my outstanding loans to 10p - all defaulted apart from BM then my overall IRR return is in the 5-6% bracket since 2012. I consider myself extremely lucky and have sympathy for those not so fortunate.
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,722
Likes: 2,987
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Post by michaelc on Oct 23, 2019 13:25:41 GMT
At least there doesn't appear to be games here with the administrator choice, the website has been preserved ( I downloaded my holdings), the FCA (for all they are worth) are engaged on it (or so we are told), and it isn't BDO (hooray!). Who knows, this may hasten an actual return of funds on my many multiple-year old loans. Still regretting the day I ever heard of P2P.... How did you manage to do that? Most of the links I've clicked on seem to redirect to the admin holding page. Is their a direct url ?
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Post by carol167 on Oct 23, 2019 13:29:29 GMT
At least there doesn't appear to be games here with the administrator choice, the website has been preserved ( I downloaded my holdings), the FCA (for all they are worth) are engaged on it (or so we are told), and it isn't BDO (hooray!). Who knows, this may hasten an actual return of funds on my many multiple-year old loans. Still regretting the day I ever heard of P2P.... How did you manage to do that? Most of the links I've clicked on seem to redirect to the admin holding page. Is their a direct url ?
Login - Click on "My Account" then "My Details", then you're back to the main interface and can select "My Investments" on the left.
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Post by propman on Oct 23, 2019 13:29:51 GMT
sounds the same as the LY story. a lot of these loans are already in the hands of receivers/admins so how do we stand on these and CH block has been sold or so we have been told.FS just put their coats on and walked out. they have been building to this for months i suppose no losses to FS by the time its all over. While the doom and gloom may well be justified, I think the news at present is less bleak than Lendy. While there may well have been some pressure put on management, FS's Management partitioned for the administration, very different from the FCA insisting. the public statements don't mention any concerns of improper activity, so there is a prospect of recoverable loans being paid out to investors.
I never lent with FS so am not familiar with their documentation, but the key to whether the administrators can use the returns from the good loans to pay for proceedings on the bad will depend on the terms of those loans. If FS do not have the right to vary their feeson existing loans and if those loans have genuinely been made direct between the investor and borrower, I believe the administrator will only be allowed to charge the agreed fees and possibly an administration charge for its reasonable costs on those loans. It may be able to sell on the loans at a discount if it believes thatthis will generate the best return for the investors.
Of course any redress from FS for their failings will be paid as an ordinary creditor and so likely to be a small proportion of any amount agreed and subject to review by the administrators.
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rs
Member of DD Central
Posts: 467
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Post by rs on Oct 23, 2019 13:32:06 GMT
sounds the same as the LY story. a lot of these loans are already in the hands of receivers/admins so how do we stand on these and CH block has been sold or so we have been told.FS just put their coats on and walked out. they have been building to this for months i suppose no losses to FS by the time its all over. While the doom and gloom may well be justified, I think the news at present is less bleak than Lendy. While there may well have been some pressure put on management, FS's Management partitioned for the administration, very different from the FCA insisting. the public statements don't mention any concerns of improper activity, so there is a prospect of recoverable loans being paid out to investors.
I never lent with FS so am not familiar with their documentation, but the key to whether the administrators can use the returns from the good loans to pay for proceedings on the bad will depend on the terms of those loans. If FS do not have the right to vary their feeson existing loans and if those loans have genuinely been made direct between the investor and borrower, I believe the administrator will only be allowed to charge the agreed fees and possibly an administration charge for its reasonable costs on those loans. It may be able to sell on the loans at a discount if it believes thatthis will generate the best return for the investors.
After you've signed in, try clicking on bank details link and then click onto transactions link and investments link. I also managed to download my transactions and investments this morning.
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paulb
Member of DD Central
Posts: 131
Likes: 112
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Post by paulb on Oct 23, 2019 13:35:08 GMT
I found that the admin page was shown at the top of every page, but scrolling down let me find the real content. I've also downloaded the CSV and PDF versions of my loans, as a souvenir, if nothing else.
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,722
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Post by michaelc on Oct 23, 2019 13:35:13 GMT
How did you manage to do that? Most of the links I've clicked on seem to redirect to the admin holding page. Is their a direct url ?
Login - Click on "My Account" then "My Details", then you're back to the main interface and can select "My Investments" on the left.
Thanks a lot - feeling stupid now but at least I've got what I wanted !
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Mousey
Member of DD Central
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Post by Mousey on Oct 23, 2019 13:39:48 GMT
... the public statements don't mention any concerns of improper activity From the FAQ: In addition, the business has not been able to demonstrate to the FCA that it can continue to meet the “Threshold Conditions” necessary to continue conducting regulated activities
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Post by ron on Oct 23, 2019 13:41:06 GMT
sounds the same as the LY story. a lot of these loans are already in the hands of receivers/admins so how do we stand on these and CH block has been sold or so we have been told.FS just put their coats on and walked out. they have been building to this for months i suppose no losses to FS by the time its all over. While the doom and gloom may well be justified, I think the news at present is less bleak than Lendy. While there may well have been some pressure put on management, FS's Management partitioned for the administration, very different from the FCA insisting. the public statements don't mention any concerns of improper activity, so there is a prospect of recoverable loans being paid out to investors.
I never lent with FS so am not familiar with their documentation, but the key to whether the administrators can use the returns from the good loans to pay for proceedings on the bad will depend on the terms of those loans. If FS do not have the right to vary their feeson existing loans and if those loans have genuinely been made direct between the investor and borrower, I believe the administrator will only be allowed to charge the agreed fees and possibly an administration charge for its reasonable costs on those loans. It may be able to sell on the loans at a discount if it believes thatthis will generate the best return for the investors.
Of course any redress from FS for their failings will be paid as an ordinary creditor and so likely to be a small proportion of any amount agreed and subject to review by the administrators.
I agree that, in principle, administration might not be that bad at this point, and the fact that the (previous) management was also heavily invested in the platform's loans is a positive. Yet, I wonder where the administrators can find the liquidity to a) pay for their compensation, and b) pursue legal proceedings and other actions against some borrowers, unless a percentage of the cashflows from the recoveries is retained for those purposes, and therefore not distributed to the lenders of the loans where those cashflows came from. Also, in case of low LTV loans (let's say residential bridge loans with LTV <50%), where the proceeds from the sale of the properties is likely to be higher than principal+overdue interest+direct expenses, can the administrators retain part of the additional proceeds, or do they go back to the borrower and the administrators simply take a cut from investors' interest and principal? There are a few of those in the platform, like the Aug****** Ty**ne loan, or the Edi****gh, or the Ca**er St... PS. I think it will be very unlikely for ordinary creditors to receive any money at all, so all demands for FS's misselling etc. are going to be pretty much pointless, unless previous management can be pursued directly
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petrichory
Member of DD Central
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Post by petrichory on Oct 23, 2019 13:48:23 GMT
sounds the same as the LY story. a lot of these loans are already in the hands of receivers/admins so how do we stand on these and CH block has been sold or so we have been told.FS just put their coats on and walked out. they have been building to this for months i suppose no losses to FS by the time its all over. "the public statements don't mention any concerns of improper activity, so there is a prospect of recoverable loans being paid out to investors."
The FCA did not visit Lendy for 14 months in the run-up to the collapse into administration and I would venture to say that the FCA did not visit this garbage outfit even once, despite all the blatant fraud going on. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/news/city-watchdog-failed-visit-ailing-peer-to-peer-firm-lendy-14/) Really, no "improper activity" ? I can name you about a dozen loans off the top of my head where there was serious improper activity on the part of FundingSecure that was both deliberate and malicious - more than just "negligence" as defined by law, rising to the level of outright fraud. Does anyone know what recourse is available on loans that were made fraudulently, where do these rank in the administration process?
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,337
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 23, 2019 14:03:35 GMT
sounds the same as the LY story. a lot of these loans are already in the hands of receivers/admins so how do we stand on these and CH block has been sold or so we have been told.FS just put their coats on and walked out. they have been building to this for months i suppose no losses to FS by the time its all over. While the doom and gloom may well be justified, I think the news at present is less bleak than Lendy. While there may well have been some pressure put on management, FS's Management partitioned for the administration, very different from the FCA insisting. the public statements don't mention any concerns of improper activity, so there is a prospect of recoverable loans being paid out to investors.
I never lent with FS so am not familiar with their documentation, but the key to whether the administrators can use the returns from the good loans to pay for proceedings on the bad will depend on the terms of those loans. If FS do not have the right to vary their feeson existing loans and if those loans have genuinely been made direct between the investor and borrower, I believe the administrator will only be allowed to charge the agreed fees and possibly an administration charge for its reasonable costs on those loans. It may be able to sell on the loans at a discount if it believes thatthis will generate the best return for the investors.
Of course any redress from FS for their failings will be paid as an ordinary creditor and so likely to be a small proportion of any amount agreed and subject to review by the administrators.
One thing to note is that AFAICS FS were the security trustee, no separate entity as per most other platforms. Relevance or not TBD
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shimself
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,563
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Post by shimself on Oct 23, 2019 14:16:00 GMT
At least there doesn't appear to be games here with the administrator choice, the website has been preserved ( I downloaded my holdings), the FCA (for all they are worth) are engaged on it (or so we are told), and it isn't BDO (hooray!). Who knows, this may hasten an actual return of funds on my many multiple-year old loans. Still regretting the day I ever heard of P2P.... How did you manage to do that? Most of the links I've clicked on seem to redirect to the admin holding page. Is their a direct url ? just scroll further down the page after logging in.Did it 5 mins ago and also printed off my holdings
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