andy5
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Post by andy5 on Nov 16, 2019 21:32:27 GMT
Whatever the reasoning, the fact remains that someone could leave the GBBA untouched for significant lengths of time, and now already a couple of per cent has been churned out into 4% interest unless they keep logging in and moving to the notice account. That is different from equities and bonds in an ISA or other wrapper, which allow reinvestment of income. In contrast this is ejecting income and the amortised return of capital, and the money has to go elsewhere. Just to clarify, partly as I received some advice by PM, my settings are to reinvest. I know that the Assetz description says in future the income and returned capital will not be reinvested in the closed accounts. I suggest they might review this. However, besides this, on looking at the transaction history I see that the account is also making swaps, and the new holding is remaining in, but on top it is making outright sales too, and this money is also being ejected from the account. Why is this happening, the sales, and what part of the firm's statement fits this behaviour? OK, the account is closed, but if some existing holders are happy to stay in for the time being, why has over 2% been involuntarily churned out already?
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Post by chris on Nov 17, 2019 8:26:00 GMT
andy5 - if the account is selling some of the holding it will be for one for two reasons. Either the lender has requested a withdrawal; or the loan no longer matches the mandate of the account. It's likely that the loan in question has drifted just slightly outside the lending criteria for the account so the system has listed it for sale.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Nov 17, 2019 9:05:52 GMT
Just to clarify, partly as I received some advice by PM, my settings are to reinvest....... <snip> For just the two closed accounts, GBBA2 & PSA, that option has been removed so everyone will have their investment gradually coming out of these accounts. But I guess you realize that?
However, besides this, on looking at the transaction history I see that the account is also making swaps, and the new holding is remaining in, but on top it is making outright sales too, and this money is also being ejected from the account. ....... <snip> (My bold) Here I think I can see what you're referring to, here's a copy from my statemnt. Do you mean this kind of thing? I'm just about to paste a picture here.... 
I've not asked to withdraw from my account, but might look like it. But I can also see that the two transactions are in different days, I'm guessing that what's behind this effect andy5 ?
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bg
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Post by bg on Nov 17, 2019 9:13:58 GMT
Now that just isn't true. The majority of my investment in ABLrate is unsellable (loans 67 and 85 spring to mind). "War and peace" to offer a loan for sale at a discount on AC? It's pretty simple really, just hit sell, type in the amount you want to sell and select the discount you want to sell at. Hardly War and Peace. Fact is, you can sell any unsuspended holding you have in the MLA if you offer it at a big enough discount pretty much instantly (5% should cover it even for the worst loans). The issue here is that you haven't invested in the MLA but in the GBBA2/PSA whose issues/limitations have been very well flagged on this forum. Fair dues you may not have read these threads before investing but I imagine its these issues that have caused AC to close the accounts to new investment to focus on the access accounts and MLA that work well. I think its the right decision. First of all, let's not compare MLA type with GBBA type accounts. But it is you that is doing the comparison! You are comparing the GBBA to ABL self select. ABL doesn't do GBBA style accounts but you are still doing the comparison. I think if you invest in an account such as the GBBA that clearly defines the criteria of loans it will invest in and the algorithm it uses and you yourself choose to invest in that account then you haven't been forced to invest. That's the nature of P2P and applies to all sites. There is no guarantee you can sell a loan, someone has to buy it. It's not comparable to a savings account. You always have to be prepared to hold to term. I am really struggling to understand what point you were making. Initially you were complaining that the accounts were being closed but now you are saying they haven't done anything to correct it. They are closing the accounts surely that is a good move but you want them to keep them open? The closure of the accounts to new investors does not have any impact on your ability to sell.
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Post by chris on Nov 17, 2019 11:12:09 GMT
Ton ⓉⓞⓃ - as per my previous message, checking that loan sale it's because the loan no longer matches the account mandate. So the system is selling any GBBA2 holdings accordingly. Then any cash that's left over in the GBBA2 account is moved back to your cash account as part of a separate sweep.
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andy5
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Post by andy5 on Nov 17, 2019 11:25:47 GMT
Just to clarify, partly as I received some advice by PM, my settings are to reinvest....... <snip> For just the two closed accounts, GBBA2 & PSA, that option has been removed so everyone will have their investment gradually coming out of these accounts. But I guess you realize that?
However, besides this, on looking at the transaction history I see that the account is also making swaps, and the new holding is remaining in, but on top it is making outright sales too, and this money is also being ejected from the account. ....... <snip> (My bold) Here I think I can see what you're referring to, here's a copy from my statemnt. Do you mean this kind of thing? I'm just about to paste a picture here....
I've not asked to withdraw from my account, but might look like it. But I can also see that the two transactions are in different days, I'm guessing that what's behind this effect andy5 chris ? I realise that, but nevertheless the advice came, so I assumed my previous remarks might not be clear enough. Your example is the sort of thing I'm looking at.
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andy5
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Post by andy5 on Nov 17, 2019 11:58:40 GMT
Ton ⓉⓞⓃ - as per my previous message, checking that loan sale it's because the loan no longer matches the account mandate. So the system is selling any GBBA2 holdings accordingly. Then any cash that's left over in the GBBA2 account is moved back to your cash account as part of a separate sweep. Even so, there are still other holdings in there that are suitable, and as I said earlier there are also swaps. Even some new purchases. Though you've closed this to new capital, I don't see that you necessarily also have to stop reinvestment within the account. Pushing money out means the return drops to 4.1% until the account holder logs in and notices, and chooses what to do next, and the nearest similar option has 90 days notice instead of potentially instant. So far my account churned out about 2.3% in only a day or two. Is the depletion likely to continue at this rate? Will people need to log in more often? Or can you tune things to respect the reinvestment request?
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JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Nov 17, 2019 14:26:49 GMT
Having set our GBBA2 accounts to withdraw all, why are they still exchanging loan parts as well as selling them?
Having no wish to have all our money on 3 months notice if market conditions become abnormal over time, this is just a large forced interest rate reduction for me and makes the platform uncompetitive.
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Post by chris on Nov 17, 2019 15:10:00 GMT
andy5 - The account is closed to making new investments, either from new money or money returned to the account from existing investments. These accounts have been closed and other system changes are being made to . As explained, if a loan falls outside the account's parameters then the system will sell any holdings in that loan. If loads do not then they will be held to term unless you request a withdrawal. So I would not expect that 'depletion' to continue unless other loans also fall outside the account's investment criteria, but that's not something I can readily predict.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Nov 18, 2019 0:53:45 GMT
Exactly, one has no control whatsoever. Assetz should take a very close look at Ablrate's secondary market or just remove the gimmicks and become another RateSetter. Not sure either of these is a forward step. Ratesetter just moved their multiple marketplaces to mimic our single marketplace and doubt ABLrate have the liquidity and scale we have - £14bn+ of secondary market transactions through the MLA ? And also all our accounts feed into the MLA so instructions to sell in GBBA2 for example will be fed into the MLA. It is interesting seeing the comparison Stuart makes between AC and RS, with RS mimicing the AC single market place. It is not something I recognise in practice as a lender on AC and RS I must admit. I see more complication with the AC model to date in terms of operation. I don't see it as a single AC marketplace due to the complications of the different accounts. For example by design, liquidity in the GBBA1, GBBA2, GEIA and PSA has never been great IMHO. Simply because the MLA investors can sell their loans at a discount and suspended loans cannot be traded between GBBA2 investors for example. It is what it is. RS investors have never had this complication to deal with which has helped. Of course there is a sellout fee to deal with at RS and in both AC and RS you are reliant on their being a willing buyer. There was a limitation in RS due to a technical limitation, e.g. existing loans in the 1 year market could only be sold to willing buyers in the 1 year market for example. This never manifested itself as far as I know, but of course could have been an issue. Once RS started doing property loans on the rolling market they could have done something to move sold loans from the 1 year to the rolling market if needed for liquidity, when pushed RS didn't deny they would have sorted this even without moving to their new model. Of course the new RS model does make it a lot more simple for RS to manage liquidity. RS say liquidity is their biggest risk currently. I am not a big fan of the GBBA1, GBBA2, GEIA and PSA. IMHO they served a purpose in helping AC grow in the early years but I am not sure how many people are happy with the liquidity in these accounts, the interest they have earned vs the published target rate, the perceived strength of the PFs in some of these accounts, and how the accounts were promoted and run. I think it would have been better to launch with the QAA, 30DAA and 90DAA and never had the GBBA, PSA and GEIA. Of course hindsight is easy. Having so many separate PFs also seems like a big complication from a relatively small overall loan book at AC. Perhaps in the future AC having a single PF across the QAA, 30DAA and 90DAA would be something to think about. Overall AC have been one of the more complicated sites to understand IMHO, I sometimes wonder just what they were thinking.... I do still have investments in RS and AC.
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walktall7
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Post by walktall7 on Nov 18, 2019 10:21:09 GMT
I am trying to close my GBB2 ACCOUNT and at the moment in one day i have received 20% of what was in that account. . But if you are doing what I am doing you cannot set it to withdraw to your MLA account . It does not matter how you set up the repayment tab all the funds from my GBB2 go to my cash account . And so every so often I then have to log in to transfedr this money from my cash account to my MLA account . I have been on chat line and there is nothing I can do !!! As I said above I am closing my GBB2 account and instructed to close this account at 2pm on 14 Nov and received 20% by 10am on 15th. I received 50% by 10am on 17 Nov .
For me this speed of me being able to withdraw money is acceptable from this blackbox account
I know that the speed will slow down and I am very fortunate in that I have only £300 in suspended loans.
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Nov 18, 2019 10:47:44 GMT
for 'slow down' I reckon dead halt is more likely as these zombie products fester with problem loans not being resolved.
A real fu from assetz tbh.
ho hum
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bg
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Post by bg on Nov 18, 2019 11:36:44 GMT
for 'slow down' I reckon dead halt is more likely as these zombie products fester with problem loans not being resolved. A real fu from assetz tbh. ho hum Yes but surely problem loans are a completely different issue than the accounts themselves? If you have invested in a loan that runs into difficulties you have to accept that you may be stuck in that loan until resolution regardless of whether you invested directly or through a 'black box' account. If you have an issue with the speed of resolution of problem loans themselves then that is a legitimate issue but is not related to the closure of a particular account/product.
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alibaba
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Post by alibaba on Nov 18, 2019 13:02:00 GMT
The Real issues are that AC have made some major mistakes in setting up and managing these accounts, the 20% allocation especially in relation to the size of some of the loans, the lack of liquidity and the management of the suspended loans has brought into question wether it is sensible to invest in a site that has treated many of the initial investors in this way. It appears to me that this is a plan to erase the early mistakes at the expense of investors.
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bg
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Post by bg on Nov 18, 2019 13:06:56 GMT
The Real issues are that AC have made some major mistakes in setting up and managing these accounts, the 20% allocation especially in relation to the size of some of the loans, the lack of liquidity and the management of the suspended loans has brought into question wether it is sensible to invest in a site that has treated many of the initial investors in this way. It appears to me that this is a plan to erase the early mistakes at the expense of investors. In what way though? You are saying the accounts didn't work as intended but you don't think they should be closed to new investment?
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