benaj
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Post by benaj on Mar 9, 2020 19:28:56 GMT
TBH, I have no idea what's the market / loan origination like in Lending Works at the moment. It's still another 3 works days to go before my money getting matched within the 1-7 days.
Selling is okay, definitely under 5 working days at the moment.
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Post by jojo on Mar 9, 2020 20:07:12 GMT
Have a look at your Share ISA statement in your retail bank and you might be shocked too. When i used to say on this forum that all the changes was relative if you compare to the interest/banking environment. Now I can add that when you have stocks markets losing 25 % in 2 weeks, the 2% difference on rates seems all relative to me. Yes the stock market is down is down but you really can't compere the Two products or we could play the same game in reverse with the gains and say LW is not making the annualised returns of many funds. What you could say -is today if i went to sell a share the price on my home screen would be what i got but not sure the same with my LW home screen I am doing the comparison because I think lenders investment road is never straight forward, and i think some people wants to have good interest with no change at any time or any risk. (and maybe lots of people thought p2p was going to deliver a straight forward "free interest money"). SO I just think it is important to remember that the lender investment is all about risk/reward. (I don't think it is fair when people says it is normal when a share price drop 30-35% but it is not normal when you have changes hurting 4-5%, and they accept to wait and be patient for the share price to come back up but they can't accept to wait for rates normalisation of LW (ie maybe 6 month and they decide to exit in 24H). If you watch the chart below, the Blue arrow is approximately the starts of LW in March 14, as you can see FTSE is under the price of the line, so my investment would have been negative over the last 5 years, when I had an average of 5% in the last 5 years on p2p.
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Post by carol167 on Mar 9, 2020 20:47:50 GMT
Yes the stock market is down is down but you really can't compere the Two products or we could play the same game in reverse with the gains and say LW is not making the annualised returns of many funds. What you could say -is today if i went to sell a share the price on my home screen would be what i got but not sure the same with my LW home screen I am doing the comparison because I think lenders investment road is never straight forward, and i think some people wants to have good interest with no change at any time or any risk. (and maybe lots of people thought p2p was going to deliver a straight forward "free interest money"). SO I just think it is important to remember that the lender investment is all about risk/reward. (I don't think it is fair when people says it is normal when a share price drop 30-35% but it is not normal when you have changes hurting 4-5%, and they accept to wait and be patient for the share price to come back up but they can't accept to wait for rates normalisation of LW (ie maybe 6 month and they decide to exit in 24H). If you watch the chart below, the Blue arrow is approximately the starts of LW in March 14, as you can see FTSE is under the price of the line, so my investment would have been negative over the last 5 years, when I had an average of 5% in the last 5 years on p2p. You are missing the point.
It wasn't the end result of what LW did that was the main problem - it was the lack of transparency on what was going to happen in the immediate aftermath of the changes. They were less than clear and sugar coated it with the impression that it as in effect a slight change meaning a small reduction in interest rates and made no mention of the vast increases in exit fees. We were not able to make a valued judgement and as a result feel cheated.
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macq
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Post by macq on Mar 9, 2020 20:50:28 GMT
Yes the stock market is down is down but you really can't compere the Two products or we could play the same game in reverse with the gains and say LW is not making the annualised returns of many funds. What you could say -is today if i went to sell a share the price on my home screen would be what i got but not sure the same with my LW home screen I am doing the comparison because I think lenders investment road is never straight forward, and i think some people wants to have good interest with no change at any time or any risk. (and maybe lots of people thought p2p was going to deliver a straight forward "free interest money"). SO I just think it is important to remember that the lender investment is all about risk/reward. (I don't think it is fair when people says it is normal when a share price drop 30-35% but it is not normal when you have changes hurting 4-5%, and they accept to wait and be patient for the share price to come back up but they can't accept to wait for rates normalisation of LW (ie maybe 6 month and they decide to exit in 24H). If you watch the chart below, the Blue arrow is approximately the starts of LW in March 14, as you can see FTSE is under the price of the line, so my investment would have been negative over the last 5 years, when I had an average of 5% in the last 5 years on p2p. Would agree with you that some maybe thought that p2p was going to deliver straight forward interest but think most knew the risk and to be fair the likes of LW & RS still market it as a straight forward headline rate and suggest a savings like product. The reason that people got the hump with LW was that is was poorly explained and those advertised rates (which are still being used on the landing page) were then part of a penalty that most did not see coming due to that poor explanation but yes in the general running of p2p you should expect losses The FTSE is probably the worst index to follow even with div's and i tend to use IT's which are way ahead of it but a quick look on Trustnet with figures up to Friday show a 5 year return of the Fidelity UK of 16.5% so don't think your investment would have been negative
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Post by Undecided on Mar 9, 2020 21:12:41 GMT
Why is the ftse the worst index to follow?
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Post by jojo on Mar 9, 2020 21:18:26 GMT
I am doing the comparison because I think lenders investment road is never straight forward, and i think some people wants to have good interest with no change at any time or any risk. (and maybe lots of people thought p2p was going to deliver a straight forward "free interest money"). SO I just think it is important to remember that the lender investment is all about risk/reward. (I don't think it is fair when people says it is normal when a share price drop 30-35% but it is not normal when you have changes hurting 4-5%, and they accept to wait and be patient for the share price to come back up but they can't accept to wait for rates normalisation of LW (ie maybe 6 month and they decide to exit in 24H). If you watch the chart below, the Blue arrow is approximately the starts of LW in March 14, as you can see FTSE is under the price of the line, so my investment would have been negative over the last 5 years, when I had an average of 5% in the last 5 years on p2p. You are missing the point.
It wasn't the end result of what LW did that was the main problem - it was the lack of transparency on what was going to happen in the immediate aftermath of the changes. They were less than clear and sugar coated it with the impression that it as in effect a slight change meaning a small reduction in interest rates and made no mention of the vast increases in exit fees. We were not able to make a valued judgement and as a result feel cheated.
I do share 100 % your view on the lack of Transparency but I kind of understand why they did it, I just hope those changes was done for the good of lenders at the end
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Mar 9, 2020 21:22:41 GMT
Why is the ftse the worst index to follow? Cos it’s full of 19th Century cr*p like banks, miners, oil companies & fags. Nothing sexy and new like Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Netflix, Tesla. It’s just full of unimaginative old world cr*p. Which is why the FtSe100 is at the same level as 1998 1999. s&p500 still up 300% from 2009
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macq
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Post by macq on Mar 9, 2020 22:25:55 GMT
Why is the ftse the worst index to follow? I was referring to the 100 and to be fair there are the dividends which many don't seem to take account of but my uneducated answer/point was based on what the experts say (well experts to me ) in that if looking to follow the UK in passive form you should use the All share index or the 250 index
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Mar 11, 2020 9:02:31 GMT
My newly acquired loan chunks this month:
1 started this month, 1 started this January 2 chunks from the 2019 cohort
Received interest shortfall for acquiring the 2019 loans, LW does try to make it fair to acquire loan chunks
The amount of shortfall interest I receive is the exactly shortfall interest penalty if I try to sell them now.
Matching time is under 7 working days.
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oxdoc
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Post by oxdoc on Mar 28, 2020 12:38:28 GMT
It's taken me a while to realise what has happened but I want to add my voice to those who feel LW were misleading. When in their November update they said "These changes will also result in an adjustment to the interest rates on the existing loan portfolio, with interest rates reducing from an average of 5.2% p.a. to 4.8% p.a.", most people would interpret that as meaning the interest rates *going forward* would be reduced, not that there would be a *retrospective* reduction, with future interest rates being hugely reduced to make the 5-year average equal the new rate. I suspect there will be many people similar to me who have not realised what the change was up to now and will add to the pool of angry investors going forward. Perhaps the change was necessary due to poor loan performance, but apparently leaving it to the last minute so that a drastic change was required in existing loans and then failing to communicate it clearly will hugely undermine trust and the company's future prospects - I can't see myself increasing my investments there for a long time.
Is anyone preparing to challenge this with the FCA or similar, which I might be able to contribute to?
Also, how do we find out now what the future interest rate on our loans is? I can see a "Weighted avg. rate" and a "Weighted avg. rate on active chunks", but do these refer to the future interest rates (presumably over the remaining loan terms) or are they averaged over the whole loan lifetimes from the beginning? Is the difference that the first includes loans missing repayments and the second does not? Where can people see the dates and amounts of scheduled future interest payments, necessary for many to do financial planning?
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 28, 2020 12:45:54 GMT
It's taken me a while to realise what has happened but I want to add my voice to those who feel LW were misleading. When in their November update they said "These changes will also result in an adjustment to the interest rates on the existing loan portfolio, with interest rates reducing from an average of 5.2% p.a. to 4.8% p.a.", most people would interpret that as meaning the interest rates *going forward* would be reduced, not that there would be a *retrospective* reduction, with future interest rates being hugely reduced to make the 5-year average equal the new rate. I suspect there will be many people similar to me who have not realised what the change was up to now and will add to the pool of angry investors going forward. Perhaps the change was necessary due to poor loan performance, but apparently leaving it to the last minute so that a drastic change was required in existing loans and then failing to communicate it clearly will hugely undermine trust and the company's future prospects - I can't see myself increasing my investments there for a long time. Is anyone preparing to challenge this with the FCA or similar, which I might be able to contribute to? Also, how do we find out now what the future interest rate on our loans is? I can see a "Weighted avg. rate" and a "Weighted avg. rate on active chunks", but do these refer to the future interest rates (presumably over the remaining loan terms) or are they averaged over the whole loan lifetimes from the beginning? Is the difference that the first includes loans missing repayments and the second does not? Where can people see the dates and amounts of scheduled future interest payments, necessary for many to do financial planning? Even more glad I sold out when I did despite the big exit fee.
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Post by overthehill on Mar 28, 2020 16:33:14 GMT
It's taken me a while to realise what has happened but I want to add my voice to those who feel LW were misleading. When in their November update they said "These changes will also result in an adjustment to the interest rates on the existing loan portfolio, with interest rates reducing from an average of 5.2% p.a. to 4.8% p.a.", most people would interpret that as meaning the interest rates *going forward* would be reduced, not that there would be a *retrospective* reduction, with future interest rates being hugely reduced to make the 5-year average equal the new rate. I suspect there will be many people similar to me who have not realised what the change was up to now and will add to the pool of angry investors going forward. Perhaps the change was necessary due to poor loan performance, but apparently leaving it to the last minute so that a drastic change was required in existing loans and then failing to communicate it clearly will hugely undermine trust and the company's future prospects - I can't see myself increasing my investments there for a long time. Is anyone preparing to challenge this with the FCA or similar, which I might be able to contribute to? Also, how do we find out now what the future interest rate on our loans is? I can see a "Weighted avg. rate" and a "Weighted avg. rate on active chunks", but do these refer to the future interest rates (presumably over the remaining loan terms) or are they averaged over the whole loan lifetimes from the beginning? Is the difference that the first includes loans missing repayments and the second does not? Where can people see the dates and amounts of scheduled future interest payments, necessary for many to do financial planning?
Thanks for that. Now that I know all the nuances it explains the persistent shortfall every month I thought I was imagining even based on 5.4% rather than 6.5%. I find the new dashboard information useless, does it tell me how much interest I'm earning every month like Ratesetter and the others ? No. A PR disaster like Property Partner's cash grab.
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Post by carol167 on Mar 29, 2020 8:35:27 GMT
It's taken me a while to realise what has happened but I want to add my voice to those who feel LW were misleading. When in their November update they said "These changes will also result in an adjustment to the interest rates on the existing loan portfolio, with interest rates reducing from an average of 5.2% p.a. to 4.8% p.a.", most people would interpret that as meaning the interest rates *going forward* would be reduced, not that there would be a *retrospective* reduction, with future interest rates being hugely reduced to make the 5-year average equal the new rate. I suspect there will be many people similar to me who have not realised what the change was up to now and will add to the pool of angry investors going forward. Perhaps the change was necessary due to poor loan performance, but apparently leaving it to the last minute so that a drastic change was required in existing loans and then failing to communicate it clearly will hugely undermine trust and the company's future prospects - I can't see myself increasing my investments there for a long time. Is anyone preparing to challenge this with the FCA or similar, which I might be able to contribute to? Also, how do we find out now what the future interest rate on our loans is? I can see a "Weighted avg. rate" and a "Weighted avg. rate on active chunks", but do these refer to the future interest rates (presumably over the remaining loan terms) or are they averaged over the whole loan lifetimes from the beginning? Is the difference that the first includes loans missing repayments and the second does not? Where can people see the dates and amounts of scheduled future interest payments, necessary for many to do financial planning? Even more glad I sold out when I did despite the big exit fee. They were struggling when times were good and they comprehensively shafted their loyal investers. Now with global apocalypse... who knows what's going to happen.
Correct me if I'm wrong but they also seem to be keeping very quiet on the subject. I seem to have been inundated with emails / web blog posts / comments in financial newsletters etc from pretty much all my other platforms - rather reassuringly too in some cases that has changed my course of action during these troubled times, but not a squeak from good Ol' experts at communications Lending Works.
Hmm....
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Mar 29, 2020 9:58:50 GMT
Am average borrower APR of 13% for the last 2 years might make things very difficult for LW. That APR suggests to me a set of borrowers not in ideal circumstances to begin with (indeed, 40% of loans are for debt consolidation).
We don't have the information directly, but I'd imagine their borrowers are more likely to be in less secure and more cyclical employment. Many of course will be rescued with the Government's aid package, but might immediately struggle financially with the delays to self-employment aid (June is it?), find that 80% of their pay isn't enough to service their debt, or indeed slip through the net if not eligible for whatever reason.
The PF having already been depleted of course adds no cheer. I'm trying but struggling to see a silver lining here, I'm surprised they haven't been in touch with their plan.
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Ukmikk
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Post by Ukmikk on Mar 29, 2020 13:26:16 GMT
Even more glad I sold out when I did despite the big exit fee. They were struggling when times were good and they comprehensively shafted their loyal investers. Now with global apocalypse... who knows what's going to happen.
Correct me if I'm wrong but they also seem to be keeping very quiet on the subject. I seem to have been inundated with emails / web blog posts / comments in financial newsletters etc from pretty much all my other platforms - rather reassuringly too in some cases that has changed my course of action during these troubled times, but not a squeak from good Ol' experts at communications Lending Works.
Hmm....
Maybe they feel it's futile trying to communicate as it's unlikely anyone will believe anything they say anyway? Or maybe they just haven't a clue what to do now? They couldn't get it right in normal conditions so who knows how they'll cope now.
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