|
|
Post by p2pgirl on Jan 29, 2020 11:16:26 GMT
Matthew it's admirable that you continue to return here to reply to concerns, even more so during paternity (congratulations) However admirable only goes so far and I think you've got to ask why a whole range of informed investors feel confused and misled about recent changes. I think the vast majority of us who read your updates on changes thought the ongoing rate for each cohort would be what is displayed in the bar chart, whereas it appears this is the rate for the duration of the loans and rates will be stripped close to zero to recover the 6.5% loans you wrote for us when it was clear the PF was in trouble. You've got to question why so many of us misunderstood this, our collective stupidity or misleading information? I haven't even started on the now punitive charges to withdraw, a by product few of us anticipated! I have to agree with Jester. For me the issue now is one of trust. I was supportive of your original changes to cutting the rates in December. A sustainable PF is an important factor to me, and I felt it was positive move by LW to address this even if it would decrease my rate of return. Because of this I decided to stay with LW rather than withdrawing. Now I feel completely misled over the changes! For me to place my hard earned cash with anybody, there needs to be trust there - I need to be able to trust that they will look after my money and my interests. With the current climate around P2P, trust is in limited supply. Sadly LW are on the verge of losing my trust (I feel I've been misled).
|
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Jan 29, 2020 11:42:07 GMT
Matthew it's admirable that you continue to return here to reply to concerns, even more so during paternity (congratulations) However admirable only goes so far and I think you've got to ask why a whole range of informed investors feel confused and misled about recent changes. I think the vast majority of us who read your updates on changes thought the ongoing rate for each cohort would be what is displayed in the bar chart, whereas it appears this is the rate for the duration of the loans and rates will be stripped close to zero to recover the 6.5% loans you wrote for us when it was clear the PF was in trouble. You've got to question why so many of us misunderstood this, our collective stupidity or misleading information? I haven't even started on the now punitive charges to withdraw, a by product few of us anticipated! I have to agree with Jester. For me the issue now is one of trust. I was supportive of your original changes to cutting the rates in December. A sustainable PF is an important factor to me, and I felt it was positive move by LW to address this even if it would decrease my rate of return. Because of this I decided to stay with LW rather than withdrawing. Now I feel completely misled over the changes! For me to place my hard earned cash with anybody, there needs to be trust there - I need to be able to trust that they will look after my money and my interests. With the current climate around P2P, trust is in limited supply. Sadly LW are on the verge of losing my trust (I feel I've been misled). Hi jester and p2pgirlAs an investment business, trust is as important to us as it is to you - it's not nice for us to read that our recent changes have impacted your trust in us, but I understand that the confusion has not exactly helped. We try to be as transparent as possible, and I think we generally do a pretty good job. We don't always get things right but we are open and honest with our customers and work hard every day to ensure you trust us with your investment. In our view, investment returns always need to be analysed over a sensible timeframe. To not consider returns already earned would be misleading - for example, if a loan makes repayments on time for 59 months and makes no repayment for the final month, the overall return yielded by that loan should be the primary metric, rather than the fact it yielded 0% in one month. As mentioned previously, during H1 2020 we are increasing Shield contributions by adjusting lender rates, and we expect this adjustment to reduce from H2 2020. The overall returns will always be shown in your dashboards and these should be the primary basis for any performance analysis. We tried to be as fair as possible by offering a fee-free period for investors who did not want to continue investing based on the new T&Cs, but this was never intended to be an opportunity to cash out and buy back to potentially benefit from varying rates.
|
|
mickj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 435 
Likes: 191
|
Post by mickj on Jan 29, 2020 11:53:01 GMT
H1 and H2 2020 - what speak is this?
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,597
Likes: 1,735
|
Post by benaj on Jan 29, 2020 12:07:45 GMT
Matthew I have to agree with Jester. For me the issue now is one of trust. I was supportive of your original changes to cutting the rates in December. A sustainable PF is an important factor to me, and I felt it was positive move by LW to address this even if it would decrease my rate of return. Because of this I decided to stay with LW rather than withdrawing. Now I feel completely misled over the changes! For me to place my hard earned cash with anybody, there needs to be trust there - I need to be able to trust that they will look after my money and my interests. With the current climate around P2P, trust is in limited supply. Sadly LW are on the verge of losing my trust (I feel I've been misled). Hi jester and p2pgirl As an investment business, trust is as important to us as it is to you - it's not nice for us to read that our recent changes have impacted your trust in us, but I understand that the confusion has not exactly helped. We try to be as transparent as possible, and I think we generally do a pretty good job. We don't always get things right but we are open and honest with our customers and work hard every day to ensure you trust us with your investment. In our view, investment returns always need to be analysed over a sensible timeframe. To not consider returns already earned would be misleading - for example, if a loan makes repayments on time for 59 months and makes no repayment for the final month, the overall return yielded by that loan should be the primary metric, rather than the fact it yielded 0% in one month. As mentioned previously, during H1 2020 we are increasing Shield contributions by adjusting lender rates, and we expect this adjustment to reduce from H2 2020. The overall returns will always be shown in your dashboards and these should be the primary basis for any performance analysis. We tried to be as fair as possible by offering a fee-free period for investors who did not want to continue investing based on the new T&Cs, but this was never intended to be an opportunity to cash out and buy back to potentially benefit from varying rates. Hi Matthew , Could you reassure investors about the projected rate? According to the dashboard, investors can earn 4% within 12 months in poor scenario for the growth product. Can we expect 4% interest within 12 months? Or the dashboard are telling us something we don't understand?
|
|
|
|
Post by EJi on Jan 29, 2020 12:13:41 GMT
You were not as fair as possible. You did not make it clear that rates would be less that 5.4% going forward (if you did, I didn't understand it). My understanding was, rates would be dropped to 5.4% then may be reduced further depending on how the shield is performing each quarter. I did not expect to receive 0.2% (2.4%aer) interest for January.
Now that people understand fully, the fairest thing you can do is offer people another chance to sell out for free. Take the hit and improve your reputation.
|
|
|
|
Post by p2pgirl on Jan 29, 2020 12:15:56 GMT
H1 and H2 2020 - what speak is this? Financial speak for the first and second half of the calendar year 2020. H1 = Jan to Jun 2020, H2 = Jul to Dec 2020.
|
|
mickj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 435
Likes: 191
|
Post by mickj on Jan 29, 2020 12:39:36 GMT
Thanks p2pgirl not one I was familiar with. so towards the end of the year before the adjustment starts to reduce, still seems very vague. I for one would like to know precisely what my investment is earning and be able to predict the same for near and distant dates, suppose I am asking too much. |
|
|
|
Post by jono75 on Jan 29, 2020 13:44:37 GMT
I just had a look at loans that I am unable to sell, there are three. One of them has seven payments overdue and the last payment was 01/06/19. Why is this not defaulted and settled by the shield? I thought it was six months, or does that only start as of the new changes so I'll need to wait approx. five months from now to sell?
|
|
macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 1,199
|
Post by macq on Jan 29, 2020 14:31:10 GMT
Matthew I have to agree with Jester. For me the issue now is one of trust. I was supportive of your original changes to cutting the rates in December. A sustainable PF is an important factor to me, and I felt it was positive move by LW to address this even if it would decrease my rate of return. Because of this I decided to stay with LW rather than withdrawing. Now I feel completely misled over the changes! For me to place my hard earned cash with anybody, there needs to be trust there - I need to be able to trust that they will look after my money and my interests. With the current climate around P2P, trust is in limited supply. Sadly LW are on the verge of losing my trust (I feel I've been misled). Hi jester and p2pgirl As an investment business, trust is as important to us as it is to you - it's not nice for us to read that our recent changes have impacted your trust in us, but I understand that the confusion has not exactly helped. We try to be as transparent as possible, and I think we generally do a pretty good job. We don't always get things right but we are open and honest with our customers and work hard every day to ensure you trust us with your investment. In our view, investment returns always need to be analysed over a sensible timeframe. To not consider returns already earned would be misleading - for example, if a loan makes repayments on time for 59 months and makes no repayment for the final month, the overall return yielded by that loan should be the primary metric, rather than the fact it yielded 0% in one month. As mentioned previously, during H1 2020 we are increasing Shield contributions by adjusting lender rates, and we expect this adjustment to reduce from H2 2020. The overall returns will always be shown in your dashboards and these should be the primary basis for any performance analysis. We tried to be as fair as possible by offering a fee-free period for investors who did not want to continue investing based on the new T&Cs, but this was never intended to be an opportunity to cash out and buy back to potentially benefit from varying rates. Appreciate you are in the firing line at the moment and these changes may or may not have had your input at the time but i would like to pickup on One of your points. While i agree as you say that an investment needs to be analysed over a time frame i feel that in this case it is missing a couple of key points.While its true you can class this as an investment rather then a savings product and with the usual warnings its not the same as an investment fund with long term dips and rises Do you not think especially when marketing an ISA as to what you call retail investors and with only 2 products to pick from that the average person will just assume they are getting One of the rates and hopefully understand defaults.But not know about H1 or H2 or what might be come H1a etc or adjusting rates to cover the fund and other tweaks I could almost believe that 100% of people not on here or other forums are not even aware of the fine tuning going on in the background at the moment and are just assuming they are on a new rate since the changes and that was the end of it
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,597
Likes: 1,735
|
Post by benaj on Jan 29, 2020 14:54:22 GMT
I just had a look at loans that I am unable to sell, there are three. One of them has seven payments overdue and the last payment was 01/06/19. Why is this not defaulted and settled by the shield? I thought it was six months, or does that only start as of the new changes so I'll need to wait approx. five months from now to sell? I have downloaded the my loanbook. It seems the 2018 late loans have been "defaulted" and covered by Shield, and repayment from the 2019 cohort arrears are covered by shield. In short the shield's Contingency Fund need more cash. At least with the shield, the capital is "protected" without any declaration of capital loss.
|
|
|
|
Post by carol167 on Jan 29, 2020 15:49:57 GMT
I could almost believe that 100% of people not on here or other forums are not even aware of the fine tuning going on in the background at the moment and are just assuming they are on a new rate since the changes and that was the end of it
And just wait until they realise they've only got 2.3% for this month, come the end of Jan Statement and not the 5.4% we thought would be the new norm.
I bet there will be quite a few disgruntled emails heading to customer support come the end of the month. If it had been properly explained - I would have absolutely cashed out when we had the chance. Seriously not happy. This is giong to have done LW's reputation a huge amount of damage.
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 3,018
|
Post by IFISAcava on Jan 29, 2020 16:22:01 GMT
I could almost believe that 100% of people not on here or other forums are not even aware of the fine tuning going on in the background at the moment and are just assuming they are on a new rate since the changes and that was the end of it
And just wait until they realise they've only got 2.3% for this month, come the end of Jan Statement and not the 5.4% we thought would be the new norm.
I bet there will be quite a few disgruntled emails heading to customer support come the end of the month. If it had been properly explained - I would have absolutely cashed out when we had the chance. Seriously not happy. This is giong to have done LW's reputation a huge amount of damage.
Which is precisely why is was obfuscated!
|
|
|
|
Post by gravitykillz on Jan 29, 2020 16:54:30 GMT
I'm sure if people complain enough to lending works customer service they can refund your sell out fee ?? Complaining privately is usually more productive than complaining on a public internet forum.
|
|
macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 1,199
|
Post by macq on Jan 29, 2020 17:36:23 GMT
I'm sure if people complain enough to lending works customer service they can refund your sell out fee ?? Complaining privately is usually more productive than complaining on a public internet forum. Assuming that they understand how it works and what people are talking about 
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 3,018
|
Post by IFISAcava on Jan 29, 2020 18:34:21 GMT
It was instructive to download the last 31 days transactions and compare interest payments by loan-ID between the end of December and end of January amounts. They are between 2 and 5 times lower for each loan.
On the bright side, the aggregate total of interest for Jan seems to be running at around a third of what it was, suggesting a rate of closer to 2% than the <1% I have been estimating. Repayment times etc vary by month, and I have done some selling, so time will tell on the actual rolling XIRR.
I do think that if you are going to slash current interest rates by at least a third, it would be more transparent to say that, rather than using the sophistry of hiding behind a lifetime rate that includes your previous payments at a higher rate. The equivalent would be a bank that had been paying 4% on an account cutting rates after 2 years to 1% but saying that because you have already received 2 years at 4% the "real" interest rate on the account is 3%.
|
|
