keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 2, 2019 16:17:25 GMT
here in Blaenau Gwent we pay possibly the highest proportion of disposable income in council tax at nearly 10%.
So we have a heavily Bureaucratic council so also have some of the worst services.
As an exercise in democracy, what would be wrong with a combination of a per person tax and an income tax collected at the same point.
So 4 adult in a house pay 4 times as much as elderly neighbour living alone.
the income tax element would then address the issue of a family of 2 on benefits paying the same as a millionaire.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 2, 2019 16:41:01 GMT
here in Blaenau Gwent we pay possibly the highest proportion of disposable income in council tax at nearly 10%. So we have a heavily Bureaucratic council so also have some of the worst services. As an exercise in democracy, what would be wrong with a combination of a per person tax and an income tax collected at the same point. So 4 adult in a house pay 4 times as much as elderly neighbour living alone. the income tax element would then address the issue of a family of 2 on benefits paying the same as a millionaire. How would the per person tax be calculated?
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Post by cautious on Dec 2, 2019 17:16:44 GMT
I have a very low income....my council tax (after single persons discount) is 17% of my monthly income.
If I recall correctly it is/was based on two people sharing a property but you only get 25% reduction for a single person.
Also was'nt VAT raised by 2.5% at the same time .... a little bell is ringing that there was a connection.
Must get back to my bread and jam tea !!!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 2, 2019 17:25:02 GMT
here in Blaenau Gwent we pay possibly the highest proportion of disposable income in council tax at nearly 10%. Which is entirely down to the local authority setting the highest CT for the entirety of Wales, 20% more than the average. statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Local-Government/Finance/Council-Tax/Levels/counciltaxlevels-by-billingauthority-bandThe Welsh average (£1,590 for Band D) is a big chunk lower than the English average (£1,750) - Blaenau Gwent is £1,930. And is one of the most deprived areas in the country, let alone Wales (which is why it's received a lot of EU development money over the years...) www.myeu.uk/search?Ebbw%20Vale%20NP23%206XBHigh cost + low income = High proportion of income. Not rocket science. Yet the residents keep voting for the same party that's already in power. <shrug> How would the per person tax be calculated? I think they used to call it the "poll tax". I seem to recall it not being terribly popular.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Dec 2, 2019 22:49:41 GMT
......as far as 'worst of services ' go ,I often cross to the Welsh side of the border just for the pleasure of travelling your road surface . Bloody marvellous compared too ours....
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 3, 2019 9:44:03 GMT
......as far as 'worst of services ' go ,I often cross to the Welsh side of the border just for the pleasure of travelling your road surface . Bloody marvellous compared too ours.... heads of the valleys road ? paid for by EU, and as such slow progress cos they know more money will keep coming.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 3, 2019 9:51:54 GMT
here in Blaenau Gwent we pay possibly the highest proportion of disposable income in council tax at nearly 10%. So we have a heavily Bureaucratic council so also have some of the worst services. As an exercise in democracy, what would be wrong with a combination of a per person tax and an income tax collected at the same point. So 4 adult in a house pay 4 times as much as elderly neighbour living alone. the income tax element would then address the issue of a family of 2 on benefits paying the same as a millionaire. How would the per person tax be calculated? I'd do it on the basis you take the council budget ( IE precepts as now ) Divide by 2 one half is that amount / number of people to pay the other half is a percentage of income per person. so cautious on a very low income would pay probably 1/3 less than now, someone on 20K would pay the same and someone on 50K a little more. it would also mean a single adult household on 20,000 would pay 1/2 of what 2 adults living in same house each on 20K would pay.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 3, 2019 10:16:16 GMT
How would the per person tax be calculated? I'd do it on the basis you take the council budget ( IE precepts as now ) Divide by 2 one half is that amount / number of people to pay the other half is a percentage of income per person. so cautious on a very low income would pay probably 1/3 less than now, someone on 20K would pay the same and someone on 50K a little more. it would also mean a single adult household on 20,000 would pay 1/2 of what 2 adults living in same house each on 20K would pay. But local councils don't know (and have no reason to know) peoples' income, plus if it's to be income based, might as well just scrap local tax and increase income tax.
Also, the "Divide by 2 one half is that amount / number of people to pay" (if I understand you correctly) gives a fixed per person amount, which is regressive and sounds like the hated poll tax (see comment by adrianc above).
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 3, 2019 10:30:57 GMT
......as far as 'worst of services ' go ,I often cross to the Welsh side of the border just for the pleasure of travelling your road surface . Bloody marvellous compared too ours.... heads of the valleys road ? paid for by EU, and as such slow progress cos they know more money will keep coming. The EU contribution is fixed - ~£80m. The rest is from the Welsh Assembly's devolved budget (and under their management). £270m at the last count. Anyway, round here you know when you cross the border, because the opposite is true.
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aj
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Post by aj on Dec 3, 2019 11:30:26 GMT
So 4 adult in a house pay 4 times as much as elderly neighbour living alone. In a country with a housing shortage, Council tax by property value is the only negative hit (apart from upkeep costs) to a single person living in a 6 bedroom house. I believe there should be a financial incentive for old Doris to downsize and free up a larger home for a family.
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mrsb
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Post by mrsb on Dec 3, 2019 12:06:25 GMT
Don't think that the "housing crisis" extends to 6 bedders.
The growth of single person households is a big part of what drives the shortage. Therefore it's the single person in 2/3 bedders that need to downside to 1 bedder. But there ain't many 1 bedders, and who'd want to live in one?
Solution - suck it up, C.T. is here to stay and squander requires proper funding to work properly.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 3, 2019 14:13:09 GMT
In a country with a housing shortage, Council tax by property value is the only negative hit (apart from upkeep costs) to a single person living in a 6 bedroom house. I believe there should be a financial incentive for old Doris to downsize and free up a larger home for a family. If Dorothy is on benefits, then the "bedroom tax" is it. (Although IIRC it doesn't apply to pensioners?) Don't think that the "housing crisis" extends to 6 bedders. The growth of single person households is a big part of what drives the shortage. Therefore it's the single person in 2/3 bedders that need to downside to 1 bedder. But there ain't many 1 bedders, and who'd want to live in one? Six-bed houses usually convert well into several one-bed flats.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 3, 2019 15:02:27 GMT
Should be no council tax. All done centrally, paid for and money raised centrally. End lottery of council tax charges and services.
We now have a situation where even rubbish tips are closed to those outside the borough - bad luck for those living close to the borders. Children's services are also a lottery.
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mrsb
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Post by mrsb on Dec 3, 2019 15:21:53 GMT
In a country with a housing shortage, Council tax by property value is the only negative hit (apart from upkeep costs) to a single person living in a 6 bedroom house. I believe there should be a financial incentive for old Doris to downsize and free up a larger home for a family. If Dorothy is on benefits, then the "bedroom tax" is it. (Although IIRC it doesn't apply to pensioners?) Don't think that the "housing crisis" extends to 6 bedders. The growth of single person households is a big part of what drives the shortage. Therefore it's the single person in 2/3 bedders that need to downside to 1 bedder. But there ain't many 1 bedders, and who'd want to live in one? Six-bed houses usually convert well into several one-bed flats. Indeed - and usually have a decent garden, and hence get pulled down and replaced with God awful "30 to the acre" . Couple of decent houses at Band F get turned into 30 units at Band B.Wasn't it Blair that boasted about getting average density up to 27/acre.
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Post by propman on Dec 3, 2019 17:13:44 GMT
Should be no council tax. All done centrally, paid for and money raised centrally. End lottery of council tax charges and services. We now have a situation where even rubbish tips are closed to those outside the borough - bad luck for those living close to the borders. Children's services are also a lottery. Who would run local services? Possibilities are a bureaucracy or locally elected representatives. The former are likely to be unresponsive to local needs while the latter is a potential disaster if they are not accountable for the money they are spending (back to situations where inner city councils were paid for by a minority under rates incentivising the Council to spend more as those paying were always out votd by those on the receiving end). the current system where the majority of the money is central but with differences raised by money raised from all is a compromise.
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