rogedavi
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Post by rogedavi on Dec 2, 2019 17:23:05 GMT
I realise the thread title may be an oxymoron, but in the wake of L, COL & FS there seems to be a general shift towards the perceived "lower risk" end of the market.
With that in mind, coupled with recent rate cuts at various P2P houses I compiled a list of what I see as the main lower risk players and their respective headline rates if you go for their highest term or longest access time hands-free black box auto accounts. All of them offer some form of provision fund (except OC who at least have skin in the game). A few notable exceptions I have omitted for various reasons: FC & Z (no PF and projected headline rates don't mean much...), LI & WA (neither are P2P), ABL & UB (higher risk, smaller scale).
AC - 5.75%
LW - 5.40%
GS - 5.3%
LP - 5%
OC - 4%
RS - 4%
LB - 3.54%
Group average: 4.715%
All have their risks, nuances and conditions that come with the advertised rate which don't make them fully comparable.
My question to the forum is, are you interested in any at these levels? Does the narrative of moving down the risk curve even make sense?
I'm with AC/LW/GS and have postponed new investment for the time being. I was tempted to try the others but the rates seem too low for me.
For example I can just pick up a tracker on the FTSE which has a dividend yield of 4-4.5%.
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upperdeane
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Post by upperdeane on Dec 2, 2019 18:02:18 GMT
I realise the thread title may be an oxymoron, but in the wake of L, COL & FS there seems to be a general shift towards the perceived "lower risk" end of the market. With that in mind, coupled with recent rate cuts at various P2P houses I compiled a list of what I see as the main lower risk players and their respective headline rates if you go for their highest term or longest access time hands-free black box auto accounts. All of them offer some form of provision fund (except OC who at least have skin in the game). A few notable exceptions I have omitted for various reasons: FC & Z (no PF and projected headline rates don't mean much...), LI & WA (neither are P2P), ABL & UB (higher risk, smaller scale). AC - 5.75% LW - 5.40% GS - 5.3% LP - 5% OC - 4% RS - 4% LB - 3.54% Group average: 4.715% All have their risks, nuances and conditions that come with the advertised rate which don't make them fully comparable. My question to the forum is, are you interested in any at these levels? Does the narrative of moving down the risk curve even make sense? I'm with AC/LW/GS and have postponed new investment for the time being. I was tempted to try the others but the rates seem too low for me. For example I can just pick up a tracker on the FTSE which has a dividend yield of 4-4.5%. +Consider EasyMoney p2pindependentforum.com/post/358528I'm personally looking for 5%+ returns on what I consider low risk P2P and 7%+ on what I consider higher risk P2P. From your list I currently have funds in AC, GS & RS (but in 1year getting approx 5%, not the new accounts). I'm trying to run away from FC but its proving difficult to sell. I also like Unbolted.
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Post by davee39 on Dec 3, 2019 11:26:59 GMT
I am pulling out of P2P. My biggest holding is AC, all in QA, and this is being depleted.
I am splitting withdrawals between Fixed rate bonds (currently 1.8% for two years) and equity / bond funds paying 5 - 7%.
Fingers crossed for a market leading loyalty product from Zopa Bank when it arrives.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Dec 3, 2019 11:43:01 GMT
I am pulling out of P2P. My biggest holding is AC, all in QA, and this is being depleted. I am splitting withdrawals between Fixed rate bonds (currently 1.8% for two years) and equity / bond funds paying 5 - 7%. Fingers crossed for a market leading loyalty product from Zopa Bank when it arrives. I'm curious about your equity/bond funds. Are you talking about something like Vanguard lifestrategy or something more active? Seems strange to say they're paying 5-7% (or any number) given the usual volatility with such things. Hear hear re: Zopa, and I share your lack of enthusiasm with P2P at the moment.
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Post by BrianC on Dec 4, 2019 0:28:12 GMT
For example I can just pick up a tracker on the FTSE which has a dividend yield of 4-4.5%. Great idea. Plenty of trackers or funds promise great yields but how does that protect your capital? You can find individual shares yielding 7%+ but that’s pretty pointless if Corbyn gets in or Brexit goes to sh1t and equities fall 30%. A 4% yield on a capital reduced by 30% doesn’t look so clever 
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lobster
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Post by lobster on Dec 4, 2019 7:38:06 GMT
For example I can just pick up a tracker on the FTSE which has a dividend yield of 4-4.5%. Great idea. Plenty of trackers or funds promise great yields but how does that protect your capital? You can find individual shares yielding 7%+ but that’s pretty pointless if Corbyn gets in or Brexit goes to sh1t and equities fall 30%. A 4% yield on a capital reduced by 30% doesn’t look so clever I always struggle to understand the concept of buying a stock (or a stock index) for the yield. As soon as a stock goes ex-dividend the exact amount of the dividend is subtracted from the share price giving no overall loss or gain. However, there are of course tax implications if one wishes to have income rather than capital gain.
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littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 4, 2019 7:45:06 GMT
I always struggle to understand the concept of buying a stock (or a stock index) for the yield. As soon as a stock goes ex-dividend the exact amount of the dividend is subtracted from the share price giving no overall loss or gain. However, there are of course tax implications if one wishes to have income rather than capital gain. That is true, but lovers of high yielding stocks (not that I'm one) like them because a steady dividend keeps the share price generally high. There is one theory that the fair price of any share is the time-discounted value of all future dividends.
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lobster
Member of DD Central
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Post by lobster on Dec 4, 2019 7:56:00 GMT
I always struggle to understand the concept of buying a stock (or a stock index) for the yield. As soon as a stock goes ex-dividend the exact amount of the dividend is subtracted from the share price giving no overall loss or gain. However, there are of course tax implications if one wishes to have income rather than capital gain. That is true, but lovers of high yielding stocks (not that I'm one) like them because a steady dividend keeps the share price generally high. There is one theory that the fair price of any share is the time-discounted value of all future dividends. I don't understand that. A steady dividend , or indeed any dividend, lowers the share price by the exact amount of the dividend.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Dec 4, 2019 9:35:05 GMT
For example I can just pick up a tracker on the FTSE which has a dividend yield of 4-4.5%. Great idea. Plenty of trackers or funds promise great yields but how does that protect your capital? You can find individual shares yielding 7%+ but that’s pretty pointless if Corbyn gets in or Brexit goes to sh1t and equities fall 30%. A 4% yield on a capital reduced by 30% doesn’t look so clever when I last looked, many higher paying ones are money market, ie they read on HL description as similar risk as p2p, relying upon securities...if I remember rightly.
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Dec 4, 2019 9:43:16 GMT
Assetz Capital Access Accounts 4.1% - 5.75% dependent on notice period; with their security, provision funds and liquidity even with suspended loans in the portfolio and no fees, ticks all the boxes for me. Earning less than 2% on bank savings products just doesn't seem worth it for anything beyond an emergency fund. AC - 5.75% For 90 daysLW - 5.40% ?GS - 5.3% ? LP - 5% ?OC - 4% too low for risk RS - 4% too low for risk LB - 3.54% too low for risk Assetz Capital, Lending Works, Growth Street, LoanPad, Orange Choice, RateSetter and LendBay ?
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Dec 4, 2019 9:50:19 GMT
Probably Octopus Choice!
And given its ties to a larger financial institution, some think it is one of the least likely to collapse, and it seems to employ people who know what they are doing regarding lending (or more particularity getting it back).
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Post by gravitykillz on Dec 4, 2019 9:54:55 GMT
What about lendinvest and crowdproperty? I have 7k between them and £500 worth of default on kuflink although still paying interest. Crowdproperty averages 8% interest!
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r00lish67
Member of DD Central
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Post by r00lish67 on Dec 4, 2019 9:55:50 GMT
Assetz Capital Access Accounts 4.1% - 5.75% dependent on notice period; with their security, provision funds and liquidity even with suspended loans in the portfolio and no fees, ticks all the boxes for me. Earning less than 2% on bank savings products just doesn't seem worth it for anything beyond an emergency fund. P2P security is variable, provision funds are discretionary, and liquidity is fleeting. P2P platforms themselves might be a temporary phenomenon. As much as I'd love to earn 5.75% on the cash part of my portfolio, I still have ten times as much cash in FSCS savings accounts instead of P2P. Definitely worth it for me.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Dec 4, 2019 10:54:27 GMT
I realise the thread title may be an oxymoron, but in the wake of L, COL & FS there seems to be a general shift towards the perceived "lower risk" end of the market. With that in mind, coupled with recent rate cuts at various P2P houses I compiled a list of what I see as the main lower risk players and their respective headline rates if you go for their highest term or longest access time hands-free black box auto accounts. All of them offer some form of provision fund (except OC who at least have skin in the game). A few notable exceptions I have omitted for various reasons: FC & Z (no PF and projected headline rates don't mean much...), LI & WA (neither are P2P), ABL & UB (higher risk, smaller scale). AC - 5.75% LW - 5.40% GS - 5.3% LP - 5% OC - 4% RS - 4% LB - 3.54% Group average: 4.715% All have their risks, nuances and conditions that come with the advertised rate which don't make them fully comparable. My question to the forum is, are you interested in any at these levels? Does the narrative of moving down the risk curve even make sense? I'm with AC/LW/GS and have postponed new investment for the time being. I was tempted to try the others but the rates seem too low for me. For example I can just pick up a tracker on the FTSE which has a dividend yield of 4-4.5%. Apologies - late to the party on this one but like davee39 I'm gradually reducing my P2P holdings (where possible) until the FCA finally get their act together to ensure that lenders are protected rather than just platform claims with a fancy website.
After the COL scandal who were not authorised, FS who by the Administrators own reporting seem to have managed to 'cross contaminate' lenders funds and of course LY who in my book were a disgrace then I'll keep my powder dry for now.
The problem is that these platform shenanigans only come to light once the Administrators come into play and whilst I wish the various action groups all the very best, I'm not expecting more than a few pennies in the pound invested from my remaining zombie loans when things are eventually finalised. Unfortunately these shenanigans do not come to light when carrying out DD on the platforms themselves although I'm often amazed at just how many other business ventures the owners have their fingers in.
To state the obvious, I'm not investing to simply keep platform owners in the lifestyle they feel entitled to.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Dec 4, 2019 14:06:20 GMT
What about lendinvest and crowdproperty? I have 7k between them and £500 worth of default on kuflink although still paying interest. Crowdproperty averages 8% interest! Lendinvest isn't P2P it's an AIF - no P2P permissions & no loss relief on bad loans as a result.
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