alanh
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Post by alanh on Dec 13, 2019 10:54:28 GMT
Unless I am totally misunderstanding this I really can't understand why people are confused by this issue. If I make a QAA withdrawal is happens (or is queued to happen) immediately. If I make a 30DAA account withdrawal it happens (or is queued) in 30 days time. If I make a 90DAA withdrawal it happens (or is queued) in 90 days time. Why is this causing so much confusion? Or have I totally missed the point?  |
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Dec 13, 2019 11:52:30 GMT
Unless I am totally misunderstanding this I really can't understand why people are confused by this issue. If I make a QAA withdrawal is happens (or is queued to happen) immediately. If I make a 30DAA account withdrawal it happens (or is queued) in 30 days time. If I make a 90DAA withdrawal it happens (or is queued) in 90 days time. Why is this causing so much confusion? Or have I totally missed the point? Indeed it is as simple as both that and how Chris explained the simple queue priority process. We have had around £1.5 billion of withdrawals that went through to date at the exact second they were requested whether QAA or 30 or 90 day notice. Only possible in normal market conditions though of course and one day that may not work but our mechanics are patently better than all other players in the market given this forum monitors liquidity on all the main platforms. And that is a fact. Who gets there money first is quite simply a queue of requests and if there was ever a time that a request for say QAA wasn’t fulfilled instantly then a 90DAA request that was due out the next second would have to wait for the QAA request to be fulfilled first. I hope that helps.
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withnell
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Post by withnell on Dec 17, 2019 7:48:59 GMT
Unless I am totally misunderstanding this I really can't understand why people are confused by this issue. If I make a QAA withdrawal is happens (or is queued to happen) immediately. If I make a 30DAA account withdrawal it happens (or is queued) in 30 days time. If I make a 90DAA withdrawal it happens (or is queued) in 90 days time. Why is this causing so much confusion? Or have I totally missed the point? Indeed it is as simple as both that and how Chris explained the simple queue priority process. We have had around £1.5 billion of withdrawals that went through to date at the exact second they were requested whether QAA or 30 or 90 day notice. Only possible in normal market conditions though of course and one day that may not work but our mechanics are patently better than all other players in the market given this forum monitors liquidity on all the main platforms. And that is a fact. Who gets there money first is quite simply a queue of requests and if there was ever a time that a request for say QAA wasn’t fulfilled instantly then a 90DAA request that was due out the next second would have to wait for the QAA request to be fulfilled first. I hope that helps. This could do with being clarified on the website - I was always under the understanding that once the withdrawal was accepted, you locked in that date (and you can see the exact date and time of funds being available on the site). Still a prioritisation of requests in a bank-run scenario, but I expected that at the time I made my request for the message "it'll be 100 days" or similar to pop up if the 90 days wouldn't be adhered to - just like for the QAA where I can see the average withdrawal time and can judge the access time. Maybe the 30D and 90D should have a similar "average time for withdrawals in last 7 days" counter to make this a bit clearer?
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Dec 17, 2019 7:57:32 GMT
Maybe the 30D and 90D should have a similar "average time for withdrawals in last 7 days" counter to make this a bit clearer? In order for that to show anything other than "exactly 30 days", without showing silly numbers of zeros, it would need to say something like "Average time to withdraw funds over last 7 days: 30 days +0.01 seconds".
Could be an idea to have the text directly linked to the QAA text, as the statistic would presumably be the same.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 17, 2019 8:42:39 GMT
Thank you, Assetz reps, for a clear statement of how the queueing would work, if it is ever needed. I like the confident and open approach to discussing these issues and systems - not so on every platform. Because we know how it would work, we can make our own judgements on how to manage our funds.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Dec 17, 2019 9:07:09 GMT
This could do with being clarified on the website - I was always under the understanding that once the withdrawal was accepted, you locked in that date (and you can see the exact date and time of funds being available on the site). Still a prioritisation of requests in a bank-run scenario, but I expected that at the time I made my request for the message "it'll be 100 days" or similar to pop up if the 90 days wouldn't be adhered to - just like for the QAA where I can see the average withdrawal time and can judge the access time. Maybe the 30D and 90D should have a similar "average time for withdrawals in last 7 days" counter to make this a bit clearer? How exactly do you think AC should predict the future state of market liquidity in 90 days' time?
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jayjay
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Post by jayjay on Dec 17, 2019 15:28:25 GMT
In the case of a liquidity crunch on the platform you would be well advised to turn the option to sweep to QAA off. Otherwise you could leave one queue only to join another. I assume it will work like this unless someone has seen something to the contrary.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 18, 2019 10:32:52 GMT
In the case of a liquidity crunch on the platform you would be well advised to turn the option to sweep to QAA off. Otherwise you could leave one queue only to join another. I assume it will work like this unless someone has seen something to the contrary. Yes, although I am pleased that Assetz have confirmed the mechanism, it is not quite the mechanism I had been hoping for. I had been hoping that the QAA would have better servicing than the 90Day in the case of reduced general liquidity. One day's delay is 1% for 90Day but 100% plus for QAA. The responses of 90Day investors and QAA investors to that occurrence would be very different. QAA is less cash-like in contingent liquidity than I thought (it is not cash of course, which is how it is 4%). I am now holding a bit more cash generally, but still into QAA as a good balance between return and liquidity risk. Still well into 90 Day where liquidity is unimportant to me.
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picnicman
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Post by picnicman on Dec 20, 2019 9:46:02 GMT
Withdrawals are queued from the moment they fall due. So if a QAA user requested a withdrawal seconds before a 90DAA withdrawal was due to be processed, then it would be queried ahead of the 90DAA withdrawal. - therefore to be absolutely clear, if a QAA withdrawal happens seconds after a 90day is due to be processed, the 90 day withdrawal has priority, because it is higher in the queue - other forumites bear with!! Cheers P
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Post by chris on Dec 20, 2019 10:35:59 GMT
Withdrawals are queued from the moment they fall due. So if a QAA user requested a withdrawal seconds before a 90DAA withdrawal was due to be processed, then it would be queried ahead of the 90DAA withdrawal. - therefore to be absolutely clear, if a QAA withdrawal happens seconds after a 90day is due to be processed, the 90 day withdrawal has priority, because it is higher in the queue - other forumites bear with!! Cheers P Yes. If the 90DAA withdrawal is due to be processed and a QAA withdrawal is requested 1 second later, and there's an insufficient liquidity buffer to process the withdrawals at that point in time, then as loan repayments are made or new investment comes into the accounts to replenish the liquidity buffer then that 90DAA withdrawal would be processed in full before that QAA withdrawal.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Dec 20, 2019 11:07:36 GMT
Yes. If the 90DAA withdrawal is due to be processed and a QAA withdrawal is requested 1 second later, and there's an insufficient liquidity buffer to process the withdrawals at that point in time, then as loan repayments are made or new investment comes into the accounts to replenish the liquidity buffer then that 90DAA withdrawal would be processed in full before that QAA withdrawal. Now I'm confused. Does this not contradict what Stuart said above: In your example chris , who gets their money first? Hopefully, it is the QAA withdrawal.
Here is my worked example so please correct me if I'm wrong:
Liquidity event happens @ 01/01/20. Timing of withdrawals follows order below.
Lender 1:QAA withdrawal is requested on 01/01/20 Lender 2:90DAA withdrawal is requested on 01/01/20 Lender 3:QAA withdrawal is requested on 01/01/20 Lender 4:QAA withdrawal is requested on 31/03/20 (i.e. 90 days later)
Priority of payments is Lender 1, Lender 3, Lender 2, Lender 4. Is that right? i.e. if all QAA lenders requested their money before 90 days, they would always get their money first. If they request after 90 days, then their position depends on exactly when the 90DAA made their original request for withdrawal?
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Dec 20, 2019 11:57:38 GMT
Yes. If the 90DAA withdrawal is due to be processed and a QAA withdrawal is requested 1 second later, and there's an insufficient liquidity buffer to process the withdrawals at that point in time, then as loan repayments are made or new investment comes into the accounts to replenish the liquidity buffer then that 90DAA withdrawal would be processed in full before that QAA withdrawal. Now I'm confused. Does this not contradict what Stuart said above: In your example chris , who gets their money first? Hopefully, it is the QAA withdrawal.
Here is my worked example so please correct me if I'm wrong:
Liquidity event happens @ 01/01/20. Timing of withdrawals follows order below.
Lender 1:QAA withdrawal is requested on 01/01/20 Lender 2:90DAA withdrawal is requested on 01/01/20 Lender 3:QAA withdrawal is requested on 01/01/20 Lender 4:QAA withdrawal is requested on 31/03/20 (i.e. 90 days later)
Priority of payments is Lender 1, Lender 3, Lender 2, Lender 4. Is that right? i.e. if all QAA lenders requested their money before 90 days, they would always get their money first. If they request after 90 days, then their position depends on exactly when the 90DAA made their original request for withdrawal?
I honestly have no idea why you are making this so complicated. The system is quite simple and has been clarified at length. Your convoluted example isn't going to help.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 21, 2019 9:30:35 GMT
The confusion arises from the ambiguity of the word "processed" used by both reps. This could mean either:
- The request has been made at a time when if there is sufficient liquidity it is pre-booked for payment 30/90 days hence and liquidity is reserved for it, or
- The request has served it's 30/90 days notice and is now due for payment and is paid if there is now sufficient liquidity (whether or not there was when the request was made) otherwise queued.
I have always assumed it is the 2nd but at least one person seems to have thought it was the 1st.
Whichever it is AC would be well advised to keep the cash reserve at very high (>10%) levels to avoid a run starting, now that this topic has been aired.
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Post by chris on Dec 21, 2019 9:48:03 GMT
Think of it as there being two queues. The first queue is one where your withdrawal request from the 30DAA and 90DAA wait until they fall due. At the point they fall due, 30 or 90 days after the request was made, liquidity is checked and either the payment is made or if there are insufficient funds then the withdrawals enter a second queue that prioritises the withdrawals as liquidity allows. QAA withdrawals skip that first queue and are either processed immediately or enter the second queue immediately. Withdrawals in the second queue are processed based upon when they first entered that second queue, not when the withdrawal itself was first requested.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 21, 2019 10:00:35 GMT
Think of it as there being two queues. The first queue is one where your withdrawal request from the 30DAA and 90DAA wait until they fall due. At the point they fall due, 30 or 90 days after the request was made, liquidity is checked and either the payment is made or if there are insufficient funds then the withdrawals enter a second queue that prioritises the withdrawals as liquidity allows. QAA withdrawals skip that first queue and are either processed immediately or enter the second queue immediately. Withdrawals in the second queue are processed based upon when they first entered that second queue, not when the withdrawal itself was first requested. That's clear enough. Now.
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