IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 23, 2019 10:53:49 GMT
Monetus - I like IFISAcava have the majority of my loans within chattels. I appreciate the point in the report about on going discussions with former Directors, but subject to these and assets being sold, a distribution (even if it is after all the chattels are sold) should not have to await the recoveries from the sale of properties. It is unfair that one part of the loan book is prejudiced by the larger completely different part of the loan book? Can I ask you to at least press (as hard as you can) BDO on this at the next CC meeting? Cheers P AIUI reading the report, the chattel sales are not being prejudiced by the larger sales, they're being stopped by the fact that (reading between the lines) their real value is bog all compared to their supposed value, and BDO are trying to hold whomever is responsible to account before proceeding with the bloodbath sale. ' Quite - my take too.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Dec 23, 2019 11:17:08 GMT
Monetus - I like IFISAcava have the majority of my loans within chattels. I appreciate the point in the report about on going discussions with former Directors, but subject to these and assets being sold, a distribution (even if it is after all the chattels are sold) should not have to await the recoveries from the sale of properties. It is unfair that one part of the loan book is prejudiced by the larger completely different part of the loan book? Can I ask you to at least press (as hard as you can) BDO on this at the next CC meeting? Cheers P AIUI reading the report, the chattel sales are not being prejudiced by the larger sales, they're being stopped by the fact that (reading between the lines) their real value is bog all compared to their supposed value, and BDO are trying to hold whomever is responsible to account before proceeding with the bloodbath sale. I'm quite sure - the lines have been there a while, but I can't fathom a need to delay any sale; a sale won't change any of the existing evidence, or I would have thought prevent anyone from being held "responsible".
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jcm9000
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Post by jcm9000 on Dec 23, 2019 13:21:21 GMT
They say they have taken action over 14 further properties but list 9. Were some of those > 1 loan? I thought there were a lot more property loans but time does make one confused - if only 2 are yet to have enforcement action taken, have the others (if my memory isn't playing up) sold?
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Dec 23, 2019 13:40:25 GMT
AIUI reading the report, the chattel sales are not being prejudiced by the larger sales, they're being stopped by the fact that (reading between the lines) their real value is bog all compared to their supposed value, and BDO are trying to hold whomever is responsible to account before proceeding with the bloodbath sale. I'm quite sure - the lines have been there a while, but I can't fathom a need to delay any sale; a sale won't change any of the existing evidence, or I would have thought prevent anyone from being held "responsible". Quite but not untypical of the whole fiasco to date
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james100
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Post by james100 on Dec 23, 2019 13:44:00 GMT
Further complaint deferral due to ongoing action from FCA, I see.
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duck
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Post by duck on Dec 23, 2019 13:47:45 GMT
Further complaint deferral due to ongoing action from FCA, I see. As expected, not really an issue since our losses are not yet known.
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picnicman
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Post by picnicman on Dec 23, 2019 14:43:25 GMT
Monetus - I like IFISAcava have the majority of my loans within chattels. I appreciate the point in the report about on going discussions with former Directors, but subject to these and assets being sold, a distribution (even if it is after all the chattels are sold) should not have to await the recoveries from the sale of properties. It is unfair that one part of the loan book is prejudiced by the larger completely different part of the loan book? Can I ask you to at least press (as hard as you can) BDO on this at the next CC meeting? Cheers P AIUI reading the report, the chattel sales are not being prejudiced by the larger sales, they're being stopped by the fact that (reading between the lines) their real value is bog all compared to their supposed value, and BDO are trying to hold whomever is responsible to account before proceeding with the bloodbath sale. ' - my point was about the distribution of chattel loans being delayed once they are sold, because of what was said in point 8 of the update report, viz distributions would have to wait for the sale of property loans. That is what I consider to be unfair. Your point about what might actually be returned from the sale of chattels, unfortunately may ring true, but we will see. Let us hope it is before next new year's eve!! Have a good xmas  Cheers P
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squid
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Post by squid on Dec 23, 2019 15:17:03 GMT
Much of my Collateral investment included the chattel loans. Where practical, I researched the open-market sales prices of similar items before investing.
Does anyone know what the specific issues are with these? Many were well known brands, and precious metal values are unlikely to have dropped since the listings.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Dec 23, 2019 15:28:24 GMT
Much of my Collateral investment included the chattel loans. Where practical, I researched the open-market sales prices of similar items before investing. Does anyone know what the specific issues are with these? Many were well known brands, and precious metal values are unlikely to have dropped since the listings. Yep. Directors. Administrators / Liquidators. Creditors Liquidation Committee*. (Not forgetting the borrowers, potentially.) Seemingly, it's only those whose money is at stake that don't know.  * - perhaps a tad unfair on these guys, lumping them in with the others like that 
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 23, 2019 15:49:22 GMT
AIUI reading the report, the chattel sales are not being prejudiced by the larger sales, they're being stopped by the fact that (reading between the lines) their real value is bog all compared to their supposed value, and BDO are trying to hold whomever is responsible to account before proceeding with the bloodbath sale. I'm quite sure - the lines have been there a while, but I can't fathom a need to delay any sale; a sale won't change any of the existing evidence, or I would have thought prevent anyone from being held "responsible".
A Sale will, presumably, SELL some of the evidence, thus rending it harder to wave it about in court later. I am minded on the 'Dead Parrot' sketch .. having the parrot to hand definitely improves the veracity of the claim about it being predeceased. Similarly any jewellery or bullion the administrators want to call 'foul!' on are probably better not vanished into the 'anonymous bidder' ether.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Dec 23, 2019 16:02:20 GMT
They say they have taken action over 14 further properties but list 9. Were some of those > 1 loan? I thought there were a lot more property loans but time does make one confused - if only 2 are yet to have enforcement action taken, have the others (if my memory isn't playing up) sold? There were any number of loan tranches (Col used to call them / notate them as DL or Development Loans). One property, for student accommodation in Bolton, had in the region of 30 DLs in addition to the original 'BL' for £1.6mm. I say ' in the region of' as it is unclear as to whether all 30-odd listed DLs drew down or not. As for distinct properties, my records show 36 as being outstanding, but 12 of those are individual units on some further student accommodation, this time in Bradford. These did all have unique 'BL' numbers, though. Re: Sales - to date 7 redemptions have been achieved Loan Ref Property Principal loan Amount recoveredBL00073 Bromyard, Hereford 210,000 212,174BL00072 Blackpool, Lancashire 105,000 120,419BL00010 B*****n Road, Liverpool 74,900 94,087BL00049 M****r Street, Blackpool, Lancashire 108,500 129,907BL00056 M****n Road, Wallsend, Newcastle upon Tyne 80,500 85,000BL00058 SMC, Heaton, Newcastle upon Tyne 133,000 139,000BL00071 P*** Hall, H***** H** R***, Liverpool 195,615 180,000I think these can be considered the 'low hanging fruit' - comparatively low value, straight forward transactions.
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Post by dan1 on Dec 23, 2019 16:26:57 GMT
I'm quite sure - the lines have been there a while, but I can't fathom a need to delay any sale; a sale won't change any of the existing evidence, or I would have thought prevent anyone from being held "responsible". A Sale will, presumably, SELL some of the evidence, thus rending it harder to wave it about in court later. I am minded on the 'Dead Parrot' sketch .. having the parrot to hand definitely improves the veracity of the claim about it being predeceased. Similarly any jewellery or bullion the administrators want to call 'foul!' on are probably better not vanished into the 'anonymous bidder' ether.
I'm inclined to agree. The fact that none of the chattels were redeemed post-administration or subsequently been disposed of suggests something we're currently not being made aware of, perhaps for good reason, although BDO have well and truly lost any benefit of the doubt with their conduct to date. It would come as no surprise to learn there was something amiss with either the chattel agreements (legally enforceable or other defect?), or valuation process (involving fraud?). It's worth recalling that there are supposedly very high value items that should have been fairly quick to value and cost effective to dispose of (the rare coin and diamonds come to mind).
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Dec 23, 2019 17:11:10 GMT
Thanks to the thread starter for the link to the 23/12 report. As an investor, it's disappointing, but unsurprising, that BDO didn't even bother sending me an email about it. I would guess most people with money in COL won't even know about this update. BDO continue to unimpress greatly.
On the update, in my opinion, just 1 small property loan recovery in the last 8 months is pathetic progress.
Secondly, the comment about not making any interim distribution because it's uneconomic is a bit insulting. It's not uneconomic to me. While I am not suffering hardship, I have had to pull in my horns a lot and put off spending decisions because of the money I have "lost" in COL. And I had money in all the small property loans that have so far been recovered (in full). Any sort of interim payment would be very helpful to me, and many others.
I'm far from being a millionaire investor. I, unwisely, invested some of my savings with a high return FCA authorised company to produce some monthly income to live on, only to find they weren't FCA regulated at all. With hindsight, it was silly of me to invest in the high risk P2P sector - but in my defence I would never have been so stupid to invest through an unregulated company that was operating unlawfully. As a victim in this, I consider BDO's performance to be inadequate, pedestrian and self serving and I find their attitude to be arrogant.
I shall be making a complaint to BDO, with a view to escalating it to the useless FCA if BDO completely ignore my complaint - like they did my previous email (which was a simple question not a complaint but they didn't even give me the courtesy of a reply despite charging me obscenely high fees for their work).
In February it will be 2 years since COL shut down and the loanbook was a trifling £17 million or so I believe. Not a single chattel has been dealt with. I know these things take a bit of time and there were some difficulties at first, but I find the lack of progress this year to be totally unacceptable. The creditors' committee meetings are getting increasingly far apart and the amount of feedback we are getting on what is happening is getting ever smaller. I'm unsure exactly what teeth the CC has but I had concerns at the start when I discovered the make up of the Committee. It's clear to me the interests of the people on the Committee do not align with mine and it's inevitable they will act in the best interests of themselves and those they represent, rather than individual, small scale 'man/woman in the street' type savers/investors.
It all smells a bit like a big, fatcat stitch up to me.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Dec 23, 2019 17:35:00 GMT
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I'm unsure exactly what teeth the CC has but I had concerns at the start when I discovered a majority of people on the Committee had BDO connections. It's clear to me the interests of the people on the Committee do not align with mine and it's inevitable they will act in the best interests of themselves and those they represent, rather than individual, small scale 'man/woman in the street' type savers/investors.
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That's interesting. Can you elaborate please? According to the COM1 form lodged at CH, the committee members are: A*** B**** (on here as Monetus) P**** L******* R****** W****** S****** W****** and, in a Corporate capacity, BondMason Client Limited which of those have 'BDO connections' and were those connections declared before or after election / selection to the Committee?
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Dec 23, 2019 17:48:34 GMT
Thanks to the thread starter for the link to the 23/12 report. As an investor, it's disappointing, but unsurprising, that BDO didn't even bother sending me an email about it. I would guess most people with money in COL won't even know about this update. BDO continue to unimpress greatly.
On the update, in my opinion, just 1 small property loan recovery in the last 8 months is pathetic progress.
Secondly, the comment about not making any interim distribution because it's uneconomic is a bit insulting. It's not uneconomic to me. While I am not suffering hardship, I have had to pull in my horns a lot and put off spending decisions because of the money I have "lost" in COL. And I had money in all the small property loans that have so far been recovered (in full). Any sort of interim payment would be very helpful to me, and many others.
I'm far from being a millionaire investor. I, unwisely, invested some of my savings with a high return FCA authorised company to produce some monthly income to live on, only to find they weren't FCA regulated at all. With hindsight, it was silly of me to invest in the high risk P2P sector - but in my defence I would never have been so stupid to invest through an unregulated company that was operating unlawfully. As a victim in this, I consider BDO's performance to be inadequate, pedestrian and self serving and I find their attitude to be arrogant.
I shall be making a complaint to BDO, with a view to escalating it to the useless FCA if BDO completely ignore my complaint - like they did my previous email (which was a simple question not a complaint but they didn't even give me the courtesy of a reply despite charging me obscenely high fees for their work).
In February it will be 2 years since COL shut down and the loanbook was a trifling £17 million or so I believe. Not a single chattel has been dealt with. I know these things take a bit of time and there were some difficulties at first, but I find the lack of progress this year to be totally unacceptable. The creditors' committee meetings are getting increasingly far apart and the amount of feedback we are getting on what is happening is getting ever smaller. I'm unsure exactly what teeth the CC has but I had concerns at the start when I discovered the make up of the Committee. It's clear to me the interests of the people on the Committee do not align with mine and it's inevitable they will act in the best interests of themselves and those they represent, rather than individual, small scale 'man/woman in the street' type savers/investors.
It all smells a bit like a big, fatcat stitch up to me.
Merry Xmas to you GeorgeT I realise it can be disheartening and frustrating when things are kept so closely under wraps because it feels like nothing is happening. All I can say is that there are justifiable reasons why progress has been at an almost glacial pace in regards to property/chattel recoveries and also why very limited information has been released so far, but I am bullish on progress accelerating significantly in the new year. If it doesn't then some serious questions will definitely need to be answered. Big investor, small investor...millionaire investor...I think we're all in the same boat really in that we'd all like as much of our money back as possible, and as soon as possible. I certainly haven't seen any evidence of any Committee members acting immorally or having any kind of conflict of interest etc in my dealings on the Committee so I think your concerns relating to it being a "big, fatcat stitch up" may be misplaced. The regulatory status of Collateral and the FCA's involvement with the register is a matter that's outside the remit of this administration but is something that Duck and his 'lings (including myself) are continuing to explore in vigorous detail. I would encourage all investors to take action on this when the time is right as I think there's a serious case to be answered by the FCA and it will soon be time to ramp up the pressure once again. Given what has occurred at Lendy and FS I'm not sure FCA regulation would have really changed much... For disclosure, the only connection I have with BDO is a couple of free pens and perhaps some mints from the previous Committee Meeting.
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Cheers P
