benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 30, 2019 23:30:20 GMT
I am confused by the Mintos email today. A "third party" has stepped in to cover the Monego payments, but I haven't seen any trace of the payment yet, and none showing up as pending payment.  May be I am a little bit impatient about the news and yet the payment (from 6th Dec) is being "transferred" soon. |
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Post by jmot on Dec 31, 2019 14:51:05 GMT
I do not invest in LOs with disastrous balance sheets like Monego, but I had invested in Iute Credit and I have around one hundred Iute Kosovo loans. What I am noticing is the following: 1) A lot of the loans stay in pending payments state for a few days and then approximately once a week the pending balances are paid for the loans that are serviced by the final borrowers (this started a couple of weeks after the announcement)
2) The loans that are not serviced by the borrowers (i.e. not even interest paid) and are 60+ days delayed (but the original loan term has not expired) are NOT bought back by the Iute Group (I have 6 loans at the moment in this state and 2 of these ones since right after the announcement)
Point 2 shows that even a solvent group like Iute is not willing to fully comply with the buyback guarantee on 60+ days delayed (in reality defaulted) loans. This has major implications for me in term of evaluating the creditworthiness of each LO in Mintos since the group guarantee seems to be a very badly defined clause. From now on I shall have to discard the Mintos Group Guarantee marketing BS and verify one by one the creditworthiness of each LO subsidiary and avoid countries with notoriously banana style governments. Unfortunately Iute operates mostly in jurisdictions with banana governments so I stopped buying their loans. I am not selling on the secondary market at discount, because panic selling only hits the bottom line. In approximately 6-7 months my whole Iute position will be 0 (excluding the defaulted Iute Kosovo loans). In approx 2 months I shall discover if Iute Group decides to buyback the defaulted loans once their original term expires.
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Post by jmot on Jan 10, 2020 21:12:48 GMT
I shall continue on this thread about "pending payments" issues and Iute Credit so called "Group Guarantee" 
Due to some LOs (which I shall name below since investors fully deserve to know who is taking the proverbial) abusing the interest free loans called "pending payments" and Iute Group stopping any payment on Iute Kosovo loans since the 27 of Dec I had a few exchanges with Mintos support.
LOs who are taking the proverbial (the biggest culprits first) on settling the payments on expired loans: 1) LF Tech, loans paid by borrowers on 30/12 and only paid today (full 12 days delay), I had only bought 6 loans as a test on the secondary in early November, so the impact of 12 days delay interest free is approximately 17% less interest (the IRR instead of being 10% becomes 8.3% (very handy for the LO who is opaquely lowering its cost of capital). So LF Tech is out of my portfolio forever given their credit risk profile and the absolute BS game they pay to settle their expired loans. 2) VIZIA, loans in pending state since 25 of Dec until 3rd of Jan (full 9 days delay). Again I cannot accept any LO taking 9 days to settle the payments even during festivities, this is a very strong indication (at best) of a very sloppy backoffice or (at worst) management playing it too "smart". In any case it shows that the LO is not properly managed so it is signalling that the LO is riskier than the rating it has got (a top A-). VIZIA is out until they start to offer interest rates above 10-11% to cover the cost of their little "games". 3) Credissimo, the A- rated, renown and long standing LO is also delaying most payments on average by 4-5 days (I have a lot of their loans so my sample is very representative) which (in their case) is a strong indicator of a sloppy backoffice. Since most of my Credissimo loans are multi-month, the impact on IRR is small, but still irritating and I have decided to reduce by 30% my Credissimo reasonably big position.
Unlike other investors here or on other forums I strongly believe that the pending payments feature is GREAT, since it sends out clear signals about the operational risk or (worse) credit risk of the LOs that are delaying the payments. It removes opacity from the platform and platform risk, which is exactly what the investors need.
There are other LOs that have 1-3 days pending payments, but this is a normal time to close FX (if necessary) and settle payments so I shall not consider them.
With respect to Iute Group guarantee (notice that in the loan terms of Iute Kosovo no group guarantee is specified, this is just an agreement between Mintos and Iute Group, so the investor has no legal recourse on this) which is being effectively implemented on a best effort basis with no guaranteed timelines and no automatic payments according to an email I received on why 60+ days delayed loans of Iute Kosovo have not been paid at all since the announcement on the 6th of December:
"WIth IuteCredit and Monego, we have both their group guarantee and their own guarantee. Meaning that all will be settled, we are still working to ensure that this is done by this week. Having the administrator on their side makes the payment process much more cumbersome than previously, thus please be patient on it. We have a list of those loans that we expect payment and we are pushing for settlement on all those."
Based on the experience and details above, the Group guarantees offered on the Mintos platform are legally very weak and unenforceable directly by the investors, who have absolutely no claim against the group. Therefore investors should consider the credit/operational/legal risk of each separate LO and DISREGARD the group guarantees when deciding the LOs on which to invest.
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sb
Posts: 166
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Post by sb on Jan 10, 2020 23:40:59 GMT
I shall continue on this thread about "pending payments" issues and Iute Credit so called "Group Guarantee"
Due to some LOs (which I shall name below since investors fully deserve to know who is taking the proverbial) abusing the interest free loans called "pending payments" and Iute Group stopping any payment on Iute Kosovo loans since the 27 of Dec I had a few exchanges with Mintos support.
LOs who are taking the proverbial (the biggest culprits first) on settling the payments on expired loans: 1) LF Tech, loans paid by borrowers on 30/12 and only paid today (full 12 days delay), I had only bought 6 loans as a test on the secondary in early November, so the impact of 12 days delay interest free is approximately 17% less interest (the IRR instead of being 10% becomes 8.3% (very handy for the LO who is opaquely lowering its cost of capital). So LF Tech is out of my portfolio forever given their credit risk profile and the absolute BS game they pay to settle their expired loans. 2) VIZIA, loans in pending state since 25 of Dec until 3rd of Jan (full 9 days delay). Again I cannot accept any LO taking 9 days to settle the payments even during festivities, this is a very strong indication (at best) of a very sloppy backoffice or (at worst) management playing it too "smart". In any case it shows that the LO is not properly managed so it is signalling that the LO is riskier than the rating it has got (a top A-). VIZIA is out until they start to offer interest rates above 10-11% to cover the cost of their little "games". 3) Credissimo, the A- rated, renown and long standing LO is also delaying most payments on average by 4-5 days (I have a lot of their loans so my sample is very representative) which (in their case) is a strong indicator of a sloppy backoffice. Since most of my Credissimo loans are multi-month, the impact on IRR is small, but still irritating and I have decided to reduce by 30% my Credissimo reasonably big position.
Unlike other investors here or on other forums I strongly believe that the pending payments feature is GREAT, since it sends out clear signals about the operational risk or (worse) credit risk of the LOs that are delaying the payments. It removes opacity from the platform and platform risk, which is exactly what the investors need.
There are other LOs that have 1-3 days pending payments, but this is a normal time to close FX (if necessary) and settle payments so I shall not consider them.
With respect to Iute Group guarantee (notice that in the loan terms of Iute Kosovo no group guarantee is specified, this is just an agreement between Mintos and Iute Group, so the investor has no legal recourse on this) which is being effectively implemented on a best effort basis with no guaranteed timelines and no automatic payments according to an email I received on why 60+ days delayed loans of Iute Kosovo have not been paid at all since the announcement on the 6th of December:
"WIth IuteCredit and Monego, we have both their group guarantee and their own guarantee. Meaning that all will be settled, we are still working to ensure that this is done by this week. Having the administrator on their side makes the payment process much more cumbersome than previously, thus please be patient on it. We have a list of those loans that we expect payment and we are pushing for settlement on all those."
Based on the experience and details above, the Group guarantees offered on the Mintos platform are legally very weak and unenforceable directly by the investors, who have absolutely no claim against the group. Therefore investors should consider the credit/operational/legal risk of each separate LO and DISREGARD the group guarantees when deciding the LOs on which to invest.
If we name and shame LOs I can add Mogo to the list. I've got their loans with pending payments up to 7 days now. So even for LOs that are closely linked them they can't get it right. Before Mintos introduced the "pending payment" feature our balances at Mintos were simply false. They showed money which wasn't there. Now we can see better what happens behind the scene and the picture is not pretty. Mogo, the biggest LO, is gaming the system or has liquidity problems. Mintos is unwilling or unable to fix the issue, pushing the costs and risks of it on the investors. They panicked after Christmas and patched the problem as one off. I hoped that would teach them a lesson how important it was to maintain trust in the platform. It looks like that I was wrong.
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Post by jmot on Jan 15, 2020 2:22:14 GMT
Good news, Iute Group guarantee finally kicked in on the 14Jan and all the 60+ days late loans from Iute Kosovo have been bought back (including interest payments). What I noticed is that late loans on Iute Kosovo have increased massively in the past 40 days (almost to 70% while before the announcement it was below 20%) and a lot of borrowers that were paying before the license withdrawal announcement have stopped paying, so in 30-40 days the vast majority of Iuve Kosovo loans will become 60+ days delayed.
On a separate note Credissimo is really taking the proverbial, 9 days with pending payments (Mogo too is taking the proverbial on few loans but I have a small position in Mogo since I do not like their business model after looking at their balance sheet that shows their collateral of useless old cars is worth something very close to 0 on the second hand sale market). I shall start to reduce positions and withdraw money from platform since even the best rated LOs are playing games.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 15, 2020 9:29:56 GMT
Regarding Monego, there are "pending" payment for completed loans. We will see if these payments will be transferred "soon".
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sb
Posts: 166
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Post by sb on Jan 15, 2020 9:57:40 GMT
Good news, Iute Group guarantee finally kicked in on the 14Jan and all the 60+ days late loans from Iute Kosovo have been bought back (including interest payments). What I noticed is that late loans on Iute Kosovo have increased massively in the past 40 days (almost to 70% while before the announcement it was below 20%) and a lot of borrowers that were paying before the license withdrawal announcement have stopped paying, so in 30-40 days the vast majority of Iuve Kosovo loans will become 60+ days delayed.
On a separate note Credissimo is really taking the proverbial, 9 days with pending payments (Mogo too is taking the proverbial on few loans but I have a small position in Mogo since I do not like their business model after looking at their balance sheet that shows their collateral of useless old cars is worth something very close to 0 on the second hand sale market). I shall start to reduce positions and withdraw money from platform since even the best rated LOs are playing games.
My 60+ days delayed Iute Credit Kosovo loan has been paid but I still have some pending payments from December. I've noticed too that Mogo accounts don't say anything how much they recover from the collateral (cars). Mogo seems to growing car renting business, why would they do this? In general Mintos is a high risk investment, so all is relative. We don't give your money to some reputable companies but loan sharks, sometimes owned by some shady individuals, doing business mostly in poor countries with high corruption. I have no doubt if it gets tough investors will get screwed. It works for time being as they earn lots of money and need funding from us.
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benaj
Member of DD Central
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Post by benaj on Jan 20, 2020 10:31:01 GMT
Mintos has transferred the pending payment from Monego  21837504-01 (Finished on 14.01.2020), money in the account 20.01.2020 |
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Post by jmot on Jan 23, 2020 13:39:06 GMT
Iute Credit group is now religiously buying back the 60+ days delayed loans of Iute Kosovo. If things keep going this way the vast majority of the Iute Kosovo loans will be bought back within 50-60 days since the vast majority of Iute Kosovo borrowers have decided to stop paying (people are like vultures when they see a company in a difficult situation  ). |
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Post by hugoncosta on Jan 29, 2020 13:42:56 GMT
Iute Credit group is now religiously buying back the 60+ days delayed loans of Iute Kosovo. If things keep going this way the vast majority of the Iute Kosovo loans will be bought back within 50-60 days since the vast majority of Iute Kosovo borrowers have decided to stop paying (people are like vultures when they see a company in a difficult situation ). Well, people that go to Iute are obviously "not good enough" for banks. Nonetheless, a debt is a debt, if you contract it with Bank of America or with your next door neighbour.
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Post by jmot on Feb 11, 2020 19:11:52 GMT
Just an update on this thread. I had a significant amount of Iute Kosovo loans that were 31-60 days late until yesterday and were supposed to be bought back before the end of next week.
Today I performed my check on the status of these loans and they have all "magically" changed to 15-30 days without receiving any payment.
Some loan examples: *25255075-01 no payment since 18-11-19, the payment due on 16-12-19 is almost 60 days late *23509526-01 no payment since 25-11-19, the payment due on 25-12-19 is almost 60 days late *23193883-01 no payment since 18-11-19, the payment due on 17-12-19 is almost 60 days late I have got tens more.
Could it be a little game to avoid the buyback since almost half of Iute Kosovo loans are very close to being 60 days late? 
I do not understand how Mintos can allow such game to go on. I noticed on other loans that Iute paid just cents on the Eur on the December payments in order to move the loan from the 31-60 status to the 15-30 days status (for example loan 25255104-01), again I cannot understand how this is not playing a game and why it is not breaking the rules.
I understand that Iute Credit is reaching a wall this February since the 60 days since the closing of their Kosovo business have expired and a substantial amount of their Kosovo loans are due a buyback very soon. They would do better in putting forward a proposal for a clear payment plan instead of playing these games with Mintos.
I sent a request to Mintos support, let's see what they tell me (as usual it will be one week late even though they told me I am a "gold" status investor  )
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Post by jmot on Feb 12, 2020 15:38:21 GMT
Just an update on this thread. I had a significant amount of Iute Kosovo loans that were 31-60 days late until yesterday and were supposed to be bought back before the end of next week.
Today I performed my check on the status of these loans and they have all "magically" changed to 15-30 days without receiving any payment.
Some loan examples: *25255075-01 no payment since 18-11-19, the payment due on 16-12-19 is almost 60 days late *23509526-01 no payment since 25-11-19, the payment due on 25-12-19 is almost 60 days late *23193883-01 no payment since 18-11-19, the payment due on 17-12-19 is almost 60 days late I have got tens more.
Could it be a little game to avoid the buyback since almost half of Iute Kosovo loans are very close to being 60 days late?
I do not understand how Mintos can allow such game to go on. I noticed on other loans that Iute paid just cents on the Eur on the December payments in order to move the loan from the 31-60 status to the 15-30 days status (for example loan 25255104-01), again I cannot understand how this is not playing a game and why it is not breaking the rules.
I understand that Iute Credit is reaching a wall this February since the 60 days since the closing of their Kosovo business have expired and a substantial amount of their Kosovo loans are due a buyback very soon. They would do better in putting forward a proposal for a clear payment plan instead of playing these games with Mintos.
I sent a request to Mintos support, let's see what they tell me (as usual it will be one week late even though they told me I am a "gold" status investor ) Received answer from Mintos today, every one of the loans has gone back to 31-60 days delay status. I shall monitor them closely from now till the end of February since almost half of Iute Credit Kosovo loans are now very close to 60+ days delay status and should be bought back. In March the amount of unsellable Iute Credit Kosovo loans should be reduced substantially and also the risks for the investors.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Feb 26, 2020 21:50:22 GMT
More Pending monego payment. 17857202-01 completed on 2020.02.25, let's hope we don't have to wait too long. |
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Mar 25, 2020 18:09:51 GMT
Unexpectedly, I received money (14752063-03) from Monego today, the loan was finished yesterday 24th March 2020, still waiting pending payment from 6 Monego loans finished between late February and 20th March.
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fric
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Post by fric on Mar 26, 2020 6:57:51 GMT
There was an email yesterday about Mintos receiving 2m from the liquidators, but sadly none of my loans received any of it... But Monego has like 8m of outstanding loans and pending payments, so yeah...
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