sd2
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Post by sd2 on Jan 6, 2020 17:49:30 GMT
Loan 2DFDC6EFA David Hockney, 'A Bigger Green Valley' edition of 15 Received £35,000 at 50% ltv the art work is therefore valued at £70,000 In the auction below it was valued at only GBP 30,000 - GBP 50,000 (Christie's 28th march 2018) On the other hand it fetched £125,000 www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/david-hockney-b-1937-a-bigger-green-6128773-details.aspx £70,000 is not ridiculous based on the realised price but these art valuation look at best like.....guess work.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 6, 2020 19:07:32 GMT
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 6, 2020 21:08:29 GMT
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starfished
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Post by starfished on Jan 7, 2020 13:31:34 GMT
Loan 2DFDC6EFA David Hockney, 'A Bigger Green Valley' edition of 15 Received £35,000 at 50% ltv the art work is therefore valued at £70,000 In the auction below it was valued at only GBP 30,000 - GBP 50,000 (Christie's 28th march 2018) On the other hand it fetched £125,000 www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/david-hockney-b-1937-a-bigger-green-6128773-details.aspx £70,000 is not ridiculous based on the realised price but these art valuation look at best like.....guess work. Guide prices can be very different to actual expected sale prices. Or at least that seems to happen with property.
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picnicman
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Post by picnicman on Jan 7, 2020 14:14:21 GMT
Loan 2DFDC6EFA David Hockney, 'A Bigger Green Valley' edition of 15 Received £35,000 at 50% ltv the art work is therefore valued at £70,000 In the auction below it was valued at only GBP 30,000 - GBP 50,000 (Christie's 28th march 2018) On the other hand it fetched £125,000 www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/david-hockney-b-1937-a-bigger-green-6128773-details.aspx £70,000 is not ridiculous based on the realised price but these art valuation look at best like.....guess work. sd2 - but whose guess - whilst I have not followed every such loan, for those that I have seen, I think UB have recognised the potential issue of valuation, by restricting the ltv to no more than 50% on art loans. Having said that 50% of nothing is nothing ( ozboy!!!!!!!!!!!). Personally and just my opinion, I tend to steer clear since the artwork debacle on FS, although to be fair to UB, their systems for valuations appear far more robust. At the end of the day, it is down to your own risk strategy/appetite for risk on such loans is. Cheers P
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 7, 2020 14:48:43 GMT
I think we all know now ( I have known for years) that the vast majority of "Valuations" are a complete ConScam. (not referring to UNB) Having met with the Directors of Unbolted I agree that they seem to be intentioned to playing a straight bat and getting Valuations as right as can be reasonably expected, but Art is dodgy at the best of times. But then, I also in the early days met with the Collateral and Funding Secure Directors.
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Post by nooneere on Jan 7, 2020 20:06:06 GMT
If you want a surer bet than the artwork, funding their auction house partner has been very consistent at a good rate: £42K of a new loan to them still for sale at the time of writing. The only negative is that they pay back too quickly!
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Brainer
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Post by Brainer on Jan 8, 2020 14:11:26 GMT
If you want a surer bet than the artwork, funding their auction house partner has been very consistent at a good rate: £42K of a new loan to them still for sale at the time of writing. The only negative is that they pay back too quickly! How do you see the security on this one? To my inexpert eye, if the company folded tomorrow there would be very little in tangible security.
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Post by nooneere on Jan 8, 2020 18:18:04 GMT
If you want a surer bet than the artwork, funding their auction house partner has been very consistent at a good rate: £42K of a new loan to them still for sale at the time of writing. The only negative is that they pay back too quickly! How do you see the security on this one? To my inexpert eye, if the company folded tomorrow there would be very little in tangible security. You are right but risk = consequence x likelihood. I don't want to sound like I'm selling this loan (and should declare myself as an aggressive S&S investor), but it looks a great company and their repayments always come flooding in for each loan.
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Brainer
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Post by Brainer on Jan 8, 2020 21:20:18 GMT
How do you see the security on this one? To my inexpert eye, if the company folded tomorrow there would be very little in tangible security. You are right but risk = consequence x likelihood. I don't want to sound like I'm selling this loan (and should declare myself as an aggressive S&S investor), but it looks a great company and their repayments always come flooding in for each loan. What makes you say it looks a great company? Not saying it's not but there's a lack of info to go on and given recent experiences in P2P I'm reluctant to lend on trust. Balance sheet on CH shows net liabilities.
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Post by nooneere on Jan 9, 2020 20:15:16 GMT
You are right but risk = consequence x likelihood. I don't want to sound like I'm selling this loan (and should declare myself as an aggressive S&S investor), but it looks a great company and their repayments always come flooding in for each loan. What makes you say it looks a great company? Not saying it's not but there's a lack of info to go on and given recent experiences in P2P I'm reluctant to lend on trust. Balance sheet on CH shows net liabilities. Brainer on no account invest on my advice, you sound sensible and cautious whereas I am in UB as a art lover; my site avatar is a painting by one of the artists whose work has formed a UB loan. I would not assume the pawn loans are safer than the auction house - see p2pindependentforum.com/thread/14543/cashing-out-court-case which is the most exciting thread on this site. Also, and I think not reported elsewhere, I have another loan in default with the interesting guidance "The police have contacted us about this book being potentially a stolen item. The book has been withdrawn from sale pending the completion of the investigation." For the record I have put a four-figure sum into the auction house loan and my confidence is based on the loans being ca. 10% of their recent commission earnings for a 6 month period, while the company owner is personally buying 25% of the loan. You're right they have liabilities on the CH accounts - these look to be the UB loans in which we can invest, and are secured against the said future commission earnings. I think discussing the merits and demerits of particular loans is a big part of this website, but hopefully no one is deemed to be offering investment advice. I could live with losing my sum in this loan, but it would be painful if I felt I had caused someone else to lose money.
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Ukmikk
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Post by Ukmikk on Jan 10, 2020 10:01:12 GMT
What makes you say it looks a great company? Not saying it's not but there's a lack of info to go on and given recent experiences in P2P I'm reluctant to lend on trust. Balance sheet on CH shows net liabilities. Brainer on no account invest on my advice, you sound sensible and cautious whereas I am in UB as a art lover; my site avatar is a painting by one of the artists whose work has formed a UB loan. I would not assume the pawn loans are safer than the auction house - see p2pindependentforum.com/thread/14543/cashing-out-court-case which is the most exciting thread on this site. Also, and I think not reported elsewhere, I have another loan in default with the interesting guidance "The police have contacted us about this book being potentially a stolen item. The book has been withdrawn from sale pending the completion of the investigation." For the record I have put a four-figure sum into the auction house loan and my confidence is based on the loans being ca. 10% of their recent commission earnings for a 6 month period, while the company owner is personally buying 25% of the loan. You're right they have liabilities on the CH accounts - these look to be the UB loans in which we can invest, and are secured against the said future commission earnings. I think discussing the merits and demerits of particular loans is a big part of this website, but hopefully no one is deemed to be offering investment advice. I could live with losing my sum in this loan, but it would be painful if I felt I had caused someone else to lose money. Sound comment. I would also add that from my point of view, this company is now building a track record of reliably paying back these loans in full which gives me confidence to continue to invest, and even start to increase the sums invested (although I personally haven't hit 4 figures yet).
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Post by ianrother on Jan 10, 2020 17:36:50 GMT
Been investing for about a year and so far very happy with Unbolted - my biggest loan is only £150 with the Auction house as mentioned on previous threads and I have about £5k with them overall. My confidence is mostly about the defaults and the way Unbolted clear them about 6 weeks in arrears. Not lost anything so far
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sd2
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Post by sd2 on Jan 13, 2020 12:19:19 GMT
If you want a surer bet than the artwork, funding their auction house partner has been very consistent at a good rate: £42K of a new loan to them still for sale at the time of writing. The only negative is that they pay back too quickly! How do you see the security on this one? To my inexpert eye, if the company folded tomorrow there would be very little in tangible security. As is the case with most business loans. Although I have no knowledge of what they own property wise, I would be surprised if no one stepped in with an offer for the business based on it's present profits. Also some loans were for expansion into other opportunities. As the ltv and the way unbolted helps themselves to the money from there sales tends to make the risk appear very low. On the other hand why are they borrowing in the first place as they are very profitable AND could they get lower interest rates elsewhere. Both of those consideration are taken into place when I lend.
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Post by nooneere on Jan 13, 2020 19:21:13 GMT
How do you see the security on this one? To my inexpert eye, if the company folded tomorrow there would be very little in tangible security. As is the case with most business loans. Although I have no knowledge of what they own property wise, I would be surprised if no one stepped in with an offer for the business based on it's present profits. Also some loans were for expansion into other opportunities. As the ltv and the way unbolted helps themselves to the money from there sales tends to make the risk appear very low. On the other hand why are they borrowing in the first place as they are very profitable AND could they get lower interest rates elsewhere. One possible answer is that the company owner personally invests a considerable amount into each loan (25% = £30K in the present loan) - so HE is earning extra money by lending to his own business. I would also note that he did sell his previous auction business, so neither would I be surprised if this happens again. Of course his past success is another positive when risk is considered.
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