iren
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Post by iren on Jan 21, 2020 15:27:02 GMT
This means Assetz insist on keeping accounts open even where the investment is so small that their own systems give you no right to see updates on the loans if defaulted. Yes, you will keep your account open, and no, we won’t give you access to the information that would tell you the current position and what we’re doing about it. I don’t think this position can be justified. What are the drawbacks (if any) of leaving the account open but never visiting it gain? Fraudsters use insiders within companies to identify disused accounts, which can then be resurrected for criminal money laundering. So you’re disused account can end up linked to a new bank account that you know nothing about, being operated by someone else. The first you know about it may be the police smashing your door in at 4 am. If there is any movement on the account while it’s in your name, it may be something you need to know about for tax purposes. Losing touch with a platform on which you hold assets could also be dangerous e.g. what if a new fee structure was introduced, such as a quarterly charge, and you didn’t know about it to opt out or object. If you changed your email provider, and your former email address is later given to someone else, your personal data could end up with the new user. There are other relatively lower risk general issues, such as that there is always a risk of any personal data held about you being leaked or hacked. Simple risk management is that we provide our personal data at risk for a reason, but if the reason no longer applies, we close access to the data. There may be measures in place that would prevent these problems, but no system is perfect.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jan 21, 2020 15:35:59 GMT
If the forum had a 'Post of the Month' competition, there's my vote right there ^^^  |
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Jan 21, 2020 16:46:40 GMT
I would argue that you have the right to forgive the debt, and that Assetz should adjust their records accordingly. ... ... Is this a contractual issue or a technical issue? My money is on the issue being neither contractual nor (particularly) technical, more a case of "it sounds tricky and we don't know if we can be bothered" I strongly agree that, across P2P, this is an important issue that is being blanked by the platforms because they can't get their heads round the significance of it. It may be that they fear that the FCA wouldn't be supportive, in which case the platforms might earn a little sympathy: maybe the best route would be to get the FCA onto it? [pause for hollow laughter about the likelihood of the FCA actually achieving anything]
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corto
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one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on Jan 21, 2020 17:25:19 GMT
What speaks again making defaulted loans sellable, and if only on a special market?
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iren
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Post by iren on Jan 21, 2020 18:37:05 GMT
My understanding is that if I were to notify a platform that I’d exercised my option to forgive the debt owed to me, and the platform continued to make representations to the borrower that sums were due from them, the platform would be making fraudulent representations to the borrower.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jan 21, 2020 19:40:58 GMT
... maybe the best route would be to get the FCA onto it? [pause for hollow laughter about the likelihood of the FCA actually achieving anything] Perhaps they could suitably modify section 10 of the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Act 2008, which in overview is: Have we had a platform last 15 years yet?  
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Jan 22, 2020 9:23:30 GMT
... maybe the best route would be to get the FCA onto it? [pause for hollow laughter about the likelihood of the FCA actually achieving anything] Perhaps they could suitably modify section 10 of the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Act 2008, which in overview is: Have we had a platform last 15 years yet? I don't think that's the right starting point. The Dormant Account concept covers the situation where an account holder, for whatever reason, ceases to interact with the bank. Here we are talking about a situation where an account holder actively wishes to get away but the platform won't let them.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jan 22, 2020 12:00:27 GMT
This is a bit of an edge case, but consider someone who gifted some of their Lendy "London Loan" to a charity/family member. It's not just the debt but also a potential liability should the borrower decide to go to court, +/- platform incompetence.
In that case, lenders details were passed onto a law firm who offered their services to those concerned - and some did them take up and pay for that.
Perhaps it was scaremongering that lead to people paying for legal rep. but the possiblity is not zero, however negligible you might perceive it, so I cannot easily see a way to get rid of a loan part without finding someone willing to take it off you, which is back round at allowing trading of heavily discounted (even 100% discount) suspended loan parts...
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Jan 22, 2020 18:06:58 GMT
This is a bit of an edge case, but consider someone who gifted some of their Lendy "London Loan" to a charity/family member. It's not just the debt but also a potential liability should the borrower decide to go to court, +/- platform incompetence. In that case, lenders details were passed onto a law firm who offered their services to those concerned - and some did them take up and pay for that. Perhaps it was scaremongering that lead to people paying for legal rep. but the possiblity is not zero, however negligible you might perceive it, so I cannot easily see a way to get rid of a loan part without finding someone willing to take it off you, which is back round at allowing trading of heavily discounted (even 100% discount) suspended loan parts... An interesting and even entertaining point, but as you say something of an edge case. AIUI the Lendy situation only arose because of some very iffy terms in the way that loan was set up (and possibly others under their terms at the time). In a more sensibly established framework that really should not be an issue. Or are you claiming that a similar bolthole for borrowers exists in every P2P contract? Now that would be an interesting claim...
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Post by investor1925 on Jan 24, 2020 8:38:55 GMT
Interestingly, I have a small amount in one of our FC accounts which is basically 2 loans worth £29, both of which are defaulted, so I contacted them a couple of days ago & asked if I could forgive the debt & close the account. The reply is below: Dear XXXX, Thanks for your email. There is currently - £29.81 left outstanding on your classic account showing as bad debt. You are able to close your account by donating the residual money in the account to charity. Should you wish to close your account, and providing all active loan parts are sold (which they currently are), you are able to assign the rights of your account and the non-transferable loan parts/losses to Funding Circle. Any money left in the account as a result of repayments or recoveries for the remaining loan parts will not be retained by Funding Circle, but donated to our chosen charitable organisation. Our chosen charity for 2020 is Whizz-Kidz (Registered Charity: No 802872), a charity that works closely with transforming the lives of disabled children across the UK. Should you wish to pursue this option of closing your account, please find attached a letter of consent that will need to be signed and returned to us, either as a scanned attachment by email or a paper copy posted to our office address. Once received, your Funding Circle account will be closed within ten working days. I hope you find this information useful. Regards, XXXXXXXXXXXX Investor Support Executive I'll be sending the letter off today & let you know what happens |
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Jan 24, 2020 9:43:21 GMT
Interestingly, I have a small amount in one of our FC accounts which is basically 2 loans worth £29, both of which are defaulted, so I contacted them a couple of days ago & asked if I could forgive the debt & close the account. The reply is below: Dear XXXX, Thanks for your email. There is currently - £29.81 left outstanding on your classic account showing as bad debt. You are able to close your account by donating the residual money in the account to charity. Should you wish to close your account, and providing all active loan parts are sold (which they currently are), you are able to assign the rights of your account and the non-transferable loan parts/losses to Funding Circle. Any money left in the account as a result of repayments or recoveries for the remaining loan parts will not be retained by Funding Circle, but donated to our chosen charitable organisation. Our chosen charity for 2020 is Whizz-Kidz (Registered Charity: No 802872), a charity that works closely with transforming the lives of disabled children across the UK. Should you wish to pursue this option of closing your account, please find attached a letter of consent that will need to be signed and returned to us, either as a scanned attachment by email or a paper copy posted to our office address. Once received, your Funding Circle account will be closed within ten working days. I hope you find this information useful. Regards, XXXXXXXXXXXX Investor Support Executive I'll be sending the letter off today & let you know what happens Goodness! Does that mean we have to give full marks to FC for a change? Sounds like an excellent example for others to follow. How about it chris ?
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Post by chris on Jan 24, 2020 9:45:50 GMT
Goodness! Does that mean we have to give full marks to FC for a change? Sounds like an excellent example for others to follow. How about it chris ? Not really a technical implementation question, so I'll have to direct you to our customer services team. Sorry.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Jan 24, 2020 9:58:35 GMT
On a simple level this is a great idea and we have a panel of charities that we support. On the legal and technical side we need to look at it but I would hope its possible.
I can see from this thread that those people who have a few loose ends on the platform versus their past holdings where those loose ends are necessarily tied up in loans that are dragging on in recoveries seem to want a 'donate it to someone' option.
I suspect the driver is to avoid having to log in/ get emails/ have account risk as described eloquently above etc when its just a small balance. For those with larger balances in loans in active recovery and where we ourselves expect good outcomes yet to be realised but perhaps they are past caring we need to consider what happens if that investor view was too pessimistic and a recovery suddenly gives them a larger than expected recovery and they want to change their minds.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Jan 24, 2020 14:05:41 GMT
On a simple level this is a great idea and we have a panel of charities that we support. On the legal and technical side we need to look at it but I would hope its possible. I can see from this thread that those people who have a few loose ends on the platform versus their past holdings where those loose ends are necessarily tied up in loans that are dragging on in recoveries seem to want a 'donate it to someone' option. I suspect the driver is to avoid having to log in/ get emails/ have account risk as described eloquently above etc when its just a small balance. For those with larger balances in loans in active recovery and where we ourselves expect good outcomes yet to be realised but perhaps they are past caring we need to consider what happens if that investor view was too pessimistic and a recovery suddenly gives them a larger than expected recovery and they want to change their minds. Stuart, thanks for considering the request. Just to add to the drivers - I am also thinking of the case where an investor has died, or become incapacitated, but has only a small potential future value... giving an easy option for an executor/attorney to drop the thing would be very handy, especially if even an optimistic view of future value wouldn't be enough to cover administration costs. As for the difference between an investor's pessimistic view and your possibly more optimistic one - well, perhaps that plays into a much broader question of how you communicate your expectations of these matters (acknowledging that this could quickly get complicated!). In this scenario, though, perhaps a reasonable compromise would be to allow this process only up to a maximum notional value - thus allowing the majority of cases to escape, while avoiding the potential embarrassment of someone inadvertently losing out on a large sum.
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Post by roandy55 on Jan 24, 2020 17:21:39 GMT
Well how about it stuartassetzcapital , care to do the compassionate, practical, putting customers first thing? Unfortunately, the removal of access to updates in order for some idea at least to be gleaned as to whether some of these miniscule outstanding loans are any nearer to being resolved hasn't helped, and for me only serves to add to the frustration. Needless to say I am 100% in favour of this option being made available. Please release me, let me go.
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