foolsgold
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Post by foolsgold on Jan 21, 2020 22:59:05 GMT
As many of us now know or have come to understand,a few of the loans are connected by common directors or groups of borrowers.
Is it possible for ease of access to list these loans in order to gauge our level of exposure and risk
As I understand some of them are
2nd charge Farnham Angle**y L*dg*, G*sp*rt, Hampshire D**w**t Road, Liverpool Development Plot Liverpool Property in Greenwich Property in Southampton Property Loan W*** D**** Road, Liverpool
Do we have knowledge of any more?
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Jan 21, 2020 23:06:49 GMT
As many of us now know or have come to understand,a few of the loans are connected by common directors or groups of borrowers.
Is it possible for ease of access to list these loans in order to gauge our level of exposure and risk
Do we have knowledge of any more? There are many more linked loans - most of which are listed in DDC
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Post by mrclondon on Jan 21, 2020 23:35:50 GMT
As already mentioned, all loans are documented in DDC, with the connectons to related loans noted. In fact there are very few FS borrowers with only one loan facility, most have several.
In addition, I produced four index threads on this public board for four borrowers with an excessive number of loans with FS, the first of these is the one for the loans listed in the OP of this thread INDEX to G*sp*rt -Southampton-Greenwich-Farnham-Liverpoolx3
I have also partially redacted the OP, given it named one of the borrower's assets in contravention of the forum rules (and for consistency with the redaction on all the other threads for these these loans).
More generally, p2p platforms have historically been reluctant to divulge details of borrowers and connected loans, as it might have discouraged investment in later loans. This is not a an issue unique to FS, and is an ongoing risk with many other platforms unless potential lenders are prepared to do their own detailed due dilligence on each and every loan opportunity before investing. In any case, quite a few borrowers have loans with multiple p2p platforms, and hence it is necessary to understand the extent of connected loans accross platforms that you invest via, not just on a given platform.
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foolsgold
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Post by foolsgold on Jan 21, 2020 23:55:32 GMT
As many of us now know or have come to understand,a few of the loans are connected by common directors or groups of borrowers.
Is it possible for ease of access to list these loans in order to gauge our level of exposure and risk
Do we have knowledge of any more? There are many more linked loans - most of which are listed in DDC Hi Thanks...Ive not quite reached the post count required to access to DDC due to my low post count.
Didnt know that the information I was looking for had already been compiled
Im happy to wait
Thanks anyway
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Post by sebb on Jan 25, 2020 13:44:12 GMT
Personally, I think that the lack of information in regard to outlining whether loans were linked is a balant example of misselling. For me, the P2P industry and the FCA should be dragged over the coals for it like the banks were for PPI.
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Post by defaultinator5000 on Jan 25, 2020 23:22:40 GMT
Personally, I think that the lack of information in regard to outlining whether loans were linked is a balant example of misselling. For me, the P2P industry and the FCA should be dragged over the coals for it like the banks were for PPI. Spot on. Not disclosing that a borrower has taken out multiple high-interest loans on the very same platform is deliberately misleading the investor into assuming far greater risk than one would desire.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 25, 2020 23:28:41 GMT
Personally, I think that the lack of information in regard to outlining whether loans were linked is a balant example of misselling. For me, the P2P industry and the FCA should be dragged over the coals for it like the banks were for PPI. Spot on. Not disclosing that a borrower has taken out multiple high-interest loans on the very same platform is deliberately misleading the investor into assuming far greater risk than one would desire. Technacally the number of loans are meaningless as every loan should have stood on the merits of the asset. If you go to pawn something the pawnbroker dosn't ask if you have pawned something before.
They value the asset you offer and lend accordingly.
That is the diffrence between lending to an individual on their merits or requiring an asset to cover the loan.
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foolsgold
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Post by foolsgold on Jan 25, 2020 23:58:38 GMT
Personally I wouldnt have invested in a property that was owned or in some cases not owned (Lytham St annes is an example) where they had other loans with FS.
The whole process in deciding which loan was being offered should have been more transparent to investors but relevant information was withheld by FS as they knew that investors wouldnt have filled their loans and they wouldnt have made their commission ....the whole thing is based on self interest of FS and it might be argued that that is how busineses work and that is the very reason the FCA should have been their to protect us.
I find it hard to believe that the FCA are unaccountable for their lack of actions given that FS was regulated by them
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Jan 26, 2020 0:30:02 GMT
As many of us now know or have come to understand,a few of the loans are connected by common directors or groups of borrowers.
Is it possible for ease of access to list these loans in order to gauge our level of exposure and risk
As I understand some of them are
2nd charge Farnham Angle**y L*dg*, G*sp*rt, Hampshire D**w**t Road, Liverpool Development Plot Liverpool Property in Greenwich Property in Southampton Property Loan W*** D**** Road, Liverpool
Do we have knowledge of any more? You might like to also look at the person who provided the Valuation Reports. I find it very concerning that the same person often signed the Valuation Report for connected loans. This implies that the borrower had a say in who provided the Valuation Report. I'm aware of two separate valuers who consistently provided exaggerated valuations for two separate multi-loan borrowers. These 2 valuers account for several millions in exaggerated valuations.
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foolsgold
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Post by foolsgold on Jan 26, 2020 11:04:01 GMT
As many of us now know or have come to understand,a few of the loans are connected by common directors or groups of borrowers.
Is it possible for ease of access to list these loans in order to gauge our level of exposure and risk
As I understand some of them are
2nd charge Farnham Angle**y L*dg*, G*sp*rt, Hampshire D**w**t Road, Liverpool Development Plot Liverpool Property in Greenwich Property in Southampton Property Loan W*** D**** Road, Liverpool
Do we have knowledge of any more? You might like to also look at the person who provided the Valuation Reports. I find it very concerning that the same person often signed the Valuation Report for connected loans. This implies that the borrower had a say in who provided the Valuation Report. I'm aware of two separate valuers who consistently provided exaggerated valuations for two separate multi-loan borrowers. These 2 valuers account for several millions in exaggerated valuations. I checked the first 2 valuation reports and its the same company and the same valuer so presume that the other ones are the same.
Devils advocate hat on they will argue that they have a working relationship with the surveyors and he was the only valuer available at the time or he had specialised knowledge in valuing that kind of property and also in Scotland when surveyors conduct a home report they have to declare by ticking a box on the home report valuation that they have had previous dealing with the Estate Agent employed.
How can it be legallly implied that the borrower had influence over who valued it?and can it be proven?....Is it not the case that FS chose the survey company?if that is the case then someone within FS was in collusion with the borrower to use a friendly surveyor to obtain a valuation that suited the borrower so however approved/chose the valuer .
I am going to end my comments further as is this a public forum
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Post by defaultinator5000 on Jan 26, 2020 22:58:23 GMT
Spot on. Not disclosing that a borrower has taken out multiple high-interest loans on the very same platform is deliberately misleading the investor into assuming far greater risk than one would desire. Technacally the number of loans are meaningless as every loan should have stood on the merits of the asset. If you go to pawn something the pawnbroker dosn't ask if you have pawned something before.
They value the asset you offer and lend accordingly.
That is the diffrence between lending to an individual on their merits or requiring an asset to cover the loan.
But FS was not offering only pawn loans. In fact, many of the loans connected to the same borrowers were speculative property developments where you depend on the competence and integrity of the borrower to finish the development on time and to a good standard. If a developer needs to borrow money at the rates of 15+% pa for his developments, he is not particularly competent or reliable as he would have been able to secure cheaper finance otherwise. And if a sub-standard developer takes out a multitude of high-interest development loans in parallel, then he is clearly a scammer or a chancer and has no intent of ever repaying those loans back.
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foolsgold
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Post by foolsgold on Jan 26, 2020 23:56:22 GMT
Technacally the number of loans are meaningless as every loan should have stood on the merits of the asset. If you go to pawn something the pawnbroker dosn't ask if you have pawned something before.
They value the asset you offer and lend accordingly.
That is the diffrence between lending to an individual on their merits or requiring an asset to cover the loan.
But FS was not offering only pawn loans. In fact, many of the loans connected to the same borrowers were speculative property developments where you depend on the competence and integrity of the borrower to finish the development on time and to a good standard. If a developer needs to borrow money at the rates of 15+% pa for his developments, he is not particularly competent or reliable as he would have been able to secure cheaper finance otherwise. And if a sub-standard developer takes out a multitude of high-interest development loans in parallel, then he is clearly a scammer or a chancer and has no intent of ever repaying those loans back. Completely agree.
The FCA have a lot to answer for giving this lot a licence to to practice in the first place.
The fact they were regulated gave the impression of being responsible and answerable to the FCA with routine inspections but the fact they allowed them to trade so long after they raised concerns is disgraceful.
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Post by sebb on Jan 27, 2020 1:28:06 GMT
Technacally the number of loans are meaningless as every loan should have stood on the merits of the asset. If you go to pawn something the pawnbroker dosn't ask if you have pawned something before.
They value the asset you offer and lend accordingly.
That is the diffrence between lending to an individual on their merits or requiring an asset to cover the loan.
But FS was not offering only pawn loans. In fact, many of the loans connected to the same borrowers were speculative property developments where you depend on the competence and integrity of the borrower to finish the development on time and to a good standard. If a developer needs to borrow money at the rates of 15+% pa for his developments, he is not particularly competent or reliable as he would have been able to secure cheaper finance otherwise. And if a sub-standard developer takes out a multitude of high-interest development loans in parallel, then he is clearly a scammer or a chancer and has no intent of ever repaying those loans back. This is pretty much where I am at. This was not a pawn loan but rather a development loan. Not disclosing the information was clearly an intentional act to ensure that the loans where filled which in turn meant that lenders where mis sold the product. Can anyone poibt me in the direction of where to complain to the FCA and provide some sort of template? TIA
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 27, 2020 3:29:22 GMT
Developers can’t get financing on interest and payment deferred basis from banks etc as they are not allowed to do so.
You have no evidence these were nothing more than an optimistic borrower.
There is a whole lot of hurt in not repaying that will last a lifetime and not something anyone is likely to enter lightly.
Just because you feel hard done to because you didn’t do as much research as has been done by some here and relied on FS who themselves can only spend appropriate time on each loan and don’t get paid until lenders do apart for some minimal fees.
Not all failures are frauds so the conspiracy theorists can get together and moan to each other and buy there Bigfoot and alien friends a drink.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 27, 2020 3:46:54 GMT
As many of us now know or have come to understand,a few of the loans are connected by common directors or groups of borrowers.
Is it possible for ease of access to list these loans in order to gauge our level of exposure and risk
As I understand some of them are
2nd charge Farnham Angle**y L*dg*, G*sp*rt, Hampshire D**w**t Road, Liverpool Development Plot Liverpool Property in Greenwich Property in Southampton Property Loan W*** D**** Road, Liverpool
Do we have knowledge of any more? You might like to also look at the person who provided the Valuation Reports. I find it very concerning that the same person often signed the Valuation Report for connected loans. This implies that the borrower had a say in who provided the Valuation Report. I'm aware of two separate valuers who consistently provided exaggerated valuations for two separate multi-loan borrowers. These 2 valuers account for several millions in exaggerated valuations. This may be due to a lack of valuers in a particular area. Are the valuers you refer to individuals or companies? I know companies can dominate a particular area but have numerous individual valuers on their books. I can’t see sufficient loans that have completed at a loss that justify your assumptions the percentage is small and they don’t have the same individuals as valuers. As much as it is good to feel there is some conspiracy to screw lenders there is no evidence and even less reasons to put your reputation on the line for no benefit as the scrutiny it puts on your work would instantly pick up wrongdoing and you wouldn’t last long. Anyone doing these things would have been weeded out long before FS as they would be only 1 of their clients. Failed loans are just that in the majority. The world would be a wonderful place if no business failed and everybody’s expectations were realised.
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