blink
Member of DD Central
Posts: 94
Likes: 119
|
Post by blink on Jan 27, 2020 19:22:44 GMT
Just looked at my account based on all the above comments. Mine does not make for happy reading. However I was prepared (when I was thinking of transferring my ISA account to switch of reinvestment and let the money build up. I know I would be losing some interest, but I think that should be my choice. I have just looked and I am unable to do that, as all the drawdown repayments (capital and interest) would automatically go to my bank account. This is the same for the setting of withdrawal of interest only. If I do this I would lose the ISA status. That would only leave the options of selling my loans, thus incurring the sale shortages of interest, fees etc. It appears there is no way to do a managed withdrawal and ISA transfer Matthew Please can you confirm if what I am describing is correct. If that is the case, it leads me to not placing any more funds in LW as I feel I am being forced to do something I may not want @ Matthew I have an ISA, have turned off relending and it just builds up as cash in the wallet until I make a transfer out request. it is possible - look under "Lending settings". Thanks for that IFISAcava I will have another look
|
|
blink
Member of DD Central
Posts: 94
Likes: 119
|
Post by blink on Jan 27, 2020 19:25:31 GMT
Thanks everyone.. I was beginning to think I may have checked in to hotel California..
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Jan 27, 2020 19:42:14 GMT
Just trying to address some of the points raised on this thread.
As you are all aware, we made changes effective 1 January 2020 to ensure that the Lending Works Shield can continue to perform its primary function, regardless of the credit performance or macroeconomic environment. To do this, we are required to divert some of the interest that the loan portfolio is generating from retail investors to the Shield (before diverting retail investors’ interest we already diverted all of Lending Works’ net interest margin). This should be in everyone's best interest as it makes the Shield mechanism significantly more robust going forward, albeit gives rise to a period of slightly reduced returns.
The level of the contributions (adjustments) will fluctuate over time as the repayment cashflow of the portfolio of loans matures. The most severe impact will be felt in the first half of 2020, then from H2 onwards the impact will be less severe so rates on current loans will increase again. However, the net result of all this is that while the interest rate paid to retail investors will fluctuate from time to time, the average annualised return investors will be receiving is the interest rate displayed on our website and in your Dashboard. Investing and investment performance should be viewed over the medium to long term, as with any other investment such as stocks and shares, and not necessarily just on the returns experienced in the space of a few months (or indeed XIRR over one month).
Regarding loan sale fees, some of you are going through the loan sale process to understand any interest shortfall penalty which may currently be applicable. This is currently higher than in the past due to interest adjustments on some of your loans (those funded prior to 2020). Please also note that this shortfall is being quoted here as a % but should not be confused with an annualised equivalent. By that I mean a 5% shortfall on a 4-year remaining term would be equivalent to around 2.5% or so p.a., rather than being equivalent to 5% p.a. As mentioned above, in H2 2020 interest shortfall payments will reduce as Shield contributions from interest payments reduce.
There is certainly no motivation or intention for Lending Works to penalise exiting lenders - this is simply a product of ensuring that investors purchasing your loans (and you may also be picking up loans from loan sales by other investors) receive the rate they are expecting from new loans.
Thanks
|
|
jlend
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 1,465
|
Post by jlend on Jan 27, 2020 19:49:21 GMT
Just trying to address some of the points raised on this thread. As you are all aware, we made changes effective 1 January 2020 to ensure that the Lending Works Shield can continue to perform its primary function, regardless of the credit performance or macroeconomic environment. To do this, we are required to divert some of the interest that the loan portfolio is generating from retail investors to the Shield (before diverting retail investors’ interest we already diverted all of Lending Works’ net interest margin). This should be in everyone's best interest as it makes the Shield mechanism significantly more robust going forward, albeit gives rise to a period of slightly reduced returns. The level of the contributions (adjustments) will fluctuate over time as the repayment cashflow of the portfolio of loans matures. The most severe impact will be felt in the first half of 2020, then from H2 onwards the impact will be less severe so rates on current loans will increase again. However, the net result of all this is that while the interest rate paid to retail investors will fluctuate from time to time, the average annualised return investors will be receiving is the interest rate displayed on our website and in your Dashboard. Investing and investment performance should be viewed over the medium to long term, as with any other investment such as stocks and shares, and not necessarily just on the returns experienced in the space of a few months (or indeed XIRR over one month). Regarding loan sale fees, some of you are going through the loan sale process to understand any interest shortfall penalty which may currently be applicable. This is currently higher than in the past due to interest adjustments on some of your loans (those funded prior to 2020). Please also note that this shortfall is being quoted here as a % but should not be confused with an annualised equivalent. By that I mean a 5% shortfall on a 4-year remaining term would be equivalent to around 2.5% or so p.a., rather than being equivalent to 5% p.a. As mentioned above, in H2 2020 interest shortfall payments will reduce as Shield contributions from interest payments reduce. There is certainly no motivation or intention for Lending Works to penalise exiting lenders - this is simply a product of ensuring that investors purchasing your loans (and you may also be picking up loans from loan sales by other investors) receive the rate they are expecting from new loans. Thanks MatthewWould lenders have been better off, selling out at the time of the offer and then repurchasing after the offer in terms of the annualised rate or the sellout fee quotes?
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,697
Likes: 3,023
|
Post by IFISAcava on Jan 27, 2020 19:53:40 GMT
Just trying to address some of the points raised on this thread. As you are all aware, we made changes effective 1 January 2020 to ensure that the Lending Works Shield can continue to perform its primary function, regardless of the credit performance or macroeconomic environment. To do this, we are required to divert some of the interest that the loan portfolio is generating from retail investors to the Shield (before diverting retail investors’ interest we already diverted all of Lending Works’ net interest margin). This should be in everyone's best interest as it makes the Shield mechanism significantly more robust going forward, albeit gives rise to a period of slightly reduced returns. The level of the contributions (adjustments) will fluctuate over time as the repayment cashflow of the portfolio of loans matures. The most severe impact will be felt in the first half of 2020, then from H2 onwards the impact will be less severe so rates on current loans will increase again. However, the net result of all this is that while the interest rate paid to retail investors will fluctuate from time to time, the average annualised return investors will be receiving is the interest rate displayed on our website and in your Dashboard. Investing and investment performance should be viewed over the medium to long term, as with any other investment such as stocks and shares, and not necessarily just on the returns experienced in the space of a few months (or indeed XIRR over one month). Regarding loan sale fees, some of you are going through the loan sale process to understand any interest shortfall penalty which may currently be applicable. This is currently higher than in the past due to interest adjustments on some of your loans (those funded prior to 2020). Please also note that this shortfall is being quoted here as a % but should not be confused with an annualised equivalent. By that I mean a 5% shortfall on a 4-year remaining term would be equivalent to around 2.5% or so p.a., rather than being equivalent to 5% p.a. As mentioned above, in H2 2020 interest shortfall payments will reduce as Shield contributions from interest payments reduce. There is certainly no motivation or intention for Lending Works to penalise exiting lenders - this is simply a product of ensuring that investors purchasing your loans (and you may also be picking up loans from loan sales by other investors) receive the rate they are expecting from new loans. Thanks Matthew Would lenders have been better off, selling out at the time of the offer and then repurchasing after the offer in terms of the annualised rate or the sellout fee quotes? Or selling out from growth and buying flexible in December.
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,661
Likes: 1,746
|
Post by benaj on Jan 27, 2020 20:28:39 GMT
Just trying to address some of the points raised on this thread. As you are all aware, we made changes effective 1 January 2020 to ensure that the Lending Works Shield can continue to perform its primary function, regardless of the credit performance or macroeconomic environment. To do this, we are required to divert some of the interest that the loan portfolio is generating from retail investors to the Shield (before diverting retail investors’ interest we already diverted all of Lending Works’ net interest margin). This should be in everyone's best interest as it makes the Shield mechanism significantly more robust going forward, albeit gives rise to a period of slightly reduced returns. The level of the contributions (adjustments) will fluctuate over time as the repayment cashflow of the portfolio of loans matures. The most severe impact will be felt in the first half of 2020, then from H2 onwards the impact will be less severe so rates on current loans will increase again. However, the net result of all this is that while the interest rate paid to retail investors will fluctuate from time to time, the average annualised return investors will be receiving is the interest rate displayed on our website and in your Dashboard. Investing and investment performance should be viewed over the medium to long term, as with any other investment such as stocks and shares, and not necessarily just on the returns experienced in the space of a few months (or indeed XIRR over one month). Regarding loan sale fees, some of you are going through the loan sale process to understand any interest shortfall penalty which may currently be applicable. This is currently higher than in the past due to interest adjustments on some of your loans (those funded prior to 2020). Please also note that this shortfall is being quoted here as a % but should not be confused with an annualised equivalent. By that I mean a 5% shortfall on a 4-year remaining term would be equivalent to around 2.5% or so p.a., rather than being equivalent to 5% p.a. As mentioned above, in H2 2020 interest shortfall payments will reduce as Shield contributions from interest payments reduce. There is certainly no motivation or intention for Lending Works to penalise exiting lenders - this is simply a product of ensuring that investors purchasing your loans (and you may also be picking up loans from loan sales by other investors) receive the rate they are expecting from new loans. Thanks Thanks for the explanation Matthew, checking my partner's account, XIRR was 2.72% (1st Jan - 24th Jan) while the average interest shortfall was 4.3%.
|
|
macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 1,199
|
Post by macq on Jan 27, 2020 20:31:22 GMT
Just trying to address some of the points raised on this thread. As you are all aware, we made changes effective 1 January 2020 to ensure that the Lending Works Shield can continue to perform its primary function, regardless of the credit performance or macroeconomic environment. To do this, we are required to divert some of the interest that the loan portfolio is generating from retail investors to the Shield (before diverting retail investors’ interest we already diverted all of Lending Works’ net interest margin). This should be in everyone's best interest as it makes the Shield mechanism significantly more robust going forward, albeit gives rise to a period of slightly reduced returns. The level of the contributions (adjustments) will fluctuate over time as the repayment cashflow of the portfolio of loans matures. The most severe impact will be felt in the first half of 2020, then from H2 onwards the impact will be less severe so rates on current loans will increase again. However, the net result of all this is that while the interest rate paid to retail investors will fluctuate from time to time, the average annualised return investors will be receiving is the interest rate displayed on our website and in your Dashboard. Investing and investment performance should be viewed over the medium to long term, as with any other investment such as stocks and shares, and not necessarily just on the returns experienced in the space of a few months (or indeed XIRR over one month). Regarding loan sale fees, some of you are going through the loan sale process to understand any interest shortfall penalty which may currently be applicable. This is currently higher than in the past due to interest adjustments on some of your loans (those funded prior to 2020). Please also note that this shortfall is being quoted here as a % but should not be confused with an annualised equivalent. By that I mean a 5% shortfall on a 4-year remaining term would be equivalent to around 2.5% or so p.a., rather than being equivalent to 5% p.a. As mentioned above, in H2 2020 interest shortfall payments will reduce as Shield contributions from interest payments reduce. There is certainly no motivation or intention for Lending Works to penalise exiting lenders - this is simply a product of ensuring that investors purchasing your loans (and you may also be picking up loans from loan sales by other investors) receive the rate they are expecting from new loans. Thanks Seeing the words retail investors more then Once in the reply are other investors better or worse off?
|
|
|
Post by carol167 on Jan 27, 2020 20:54:13 GMT
I'm going to add to the complaints list that we can no longer see what interest rate our personal portfolios have like we used to and we can no longer see what is to be repaid month by month into the future like we used to do. Both very important and valuable pieces of information.
I feel like I'm in the dark going forward and that makes me feel very uneasy.
|
|
|
Post by carol167 on Jan 28, 2020 10:46:35 GMT
So... given that I'm not a financial whizz and LW seems to have gotten very complicated...
If I have a 5 year loan - that was (let's say) @ an interest rate of 6.5%. And I've already received 4 years worth of 6.5% interest..... how is that going to affect the rate I will *actually* get for the last and final 5th year ? Is it the case that I will have to effectively pay back 4 years worth of 1.1% meaning that for that last year I'll only get 1% to make it up to the 5.4% average for the 5 years ? - and that's assuming LW don't change the rates again or claw back even more for the previous years in the future : something that is emminently possible given that now all trust has gone and they've already done it once.
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,661
Likes: 1,746
|
Post by benaj on Jan 28, 2020 10:57:55 GMT
So... given that I'm not a financial whizz I am not a financial whizz, just an investor like others. Even one of the experts, Mr Faulkner posted review like this before Jan 2020.
|
|
|
Post by carol167 on Jan 28, 2020 11:04:50 GMT
So... given that I'm not a financial whizz I am not a financial whizz, just an investor like others. Even one of the experts, Mr Faulkner posted review like this before Jan 2020. Sorry, but I'm not understanding your reply. Who is Mr Faulkner ?
I'm just trying to get my head around what LW have done, now that the full realisation has hit us and we can no longer withdraw everything at no cost.
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,661
Likes: 1,746
|
Post by benaj on Jan 28, 2020 11:13:56 GMT
I am not a financial whizz, just an investor like others. Even one of the experts, Mr Faulkner posted review like this before Jan 2020. Sorry, but I'm not understanding your reply. Who is Mr Faulknor ?
I'm just trying to get my head around what LW has done, now that the full realisation has hit us and we can no longer withdraw everything at no cost.
4thWay Head of Research. TBH, the Shield's cash balance was growing steadily since 2013 until 2019. I suppose the shield would not require immediate attention if current annual loss rate did not exceed 3% from all cohorts, but they have according to LW' performance statistics. www.lendingworks.co.uk/about-us/statisticswww.lendingworks.co.uk/about-us/the-shieldNote: Annual Loss rate is not the same as expected default rate
|
|
r00lish67
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,692
Likes: 4,048
|
Post by r00lish67 on Jan 28, 2020 11:54:02 GMT
So... given that I'm not a financial whizz I am not a financial whizz, just an investor like others. Even one of the experts, Mr Faulkner posted review like this before Jan 2020. I won't claim to understand the maths being applied now, but it was pretty clear to me that LW were heading towards trouble from the middle of last year ( 1), and I wrote about it here a fair bit. I was especially concerned in August when doing the simple sum of "PF cash + expected income - expected losses" resulted in a negative number i.e. LW were predicting themselves that their PF was going to run out of cash. That net figure has since kept on dropping btw. Even before that, the drops in PF cash throughout last year looked unsustainable. The 2017 cohort for example has over twice the level of bad debt LW initially expected. My outstanding concern (from the outside, disinvested a while back) for existing investors is that the 2019 cohort expected bad debt seems out of kilter with prior years i.e. it's a very low forecast for a borrower APR that's as high as it's ever been. Matthew to his credit did address this point at the time, but I'm afraid I remain unconvinced. Whether that has now been addressed (if indeed it needs to be) we now don't really know with the nature of the revised statistics. P.S. That 4th way seemed unable/unwilling to do the "advanced analysis" of monitoring PF cash levels and tracking expected performance vs actual tells you everything you need to know about how much to trust their views. P.P.S For anyone also invested in RS, you might want to do some homework on their stats too if you haven't already. Don't just read the headline stats.
|
|
macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 1,199
|
Post by macq on Jan 28, 2020 12:19:36 GMT
So... given that I'm not a financial whizz and LW seems to have gotten very complicated...
If I have a 5 year loan - that was (let's say) @ an interest rate of 6.5%. And I've already received 4 years worth of 6.5% interest..... how is that going to affect the rate I will *actually* get for the last and final 5th year ? Is it the case that I will have to effectively pay back 4 years worth of 1.1% meaning that for that last year I'll only get 1% to make it up to the 5.4% average for the 5 years ? - and that's assuming LW don't change the rates again or claw back even more for the previous years in the future : something that is emminently possible given that now all trust has gone and they've already done it once.
Not sure there a financial whizz (or even correct) but someone has started a thread on the MSE savings forum this morning with analysis of their withdrawal and how new loans work now etc The other problem for LW could be if the explanation is not quite right but it gets mentioned on MSE you are hitting a wider public (i would guess)
|
|
|
Post by carol167 on Jan 28, 2020 12:50:37 GMT
So... given that I'm not a financial whizz and LW seems to have gotten very complicated...
If I have a 5 year loan - that was (let's say) @ an interest rate of 6.5%. And I've already received 4 years worth of 6.5% interest..... how is that going to affect the rate I will *actually* get for the last and final 5th year ? Is it the case that I will have to effectively pay back 4 years worth of 1.1% meaning that for that last year I'll only get 1% to make it up to the 5.4% average for the 5 years ? - and that's assuming LW don't change the rates again or claw back even more for the previous years in the future : something that is emminently possible given that now all trust has gone and they've already done it once.
Not sure there a financial whizz (or even correct) but someone has started a thread on the MSE savings forum this morning with analysis of their withdrawal and how new loans work now etc The other problem for LW could be if the explanation is not quite right but it gets mentioned on MSE you are hitting a wider public (i would guess)
Thanks for the headsup, but I'm not sure what he has written is accurate either. If it is - then it's even worse than I thought and was clearly never explained properly by LW.
|
|