|
Post by bracknellboy on Apr 10, 2020 4:57:16 GMT
IBS sufferers nationwide receive letters from NHS to advise that they too are classified as vulnerable. Exclusive shopping hours to accommodate need for fibre. If only.....
|
|
one21
Member of DD Central
Posts: 398
Likes: 265
|
Post by one21 on Apr 10, 2020 7:12:42 GMT
I found it quite upsetting to a hear the other day, that a front line NHS worker (West Indian male nurse with 20 years service) was rejected for treatment after contracting the desease in his line of duty (ch4 news). He was told his symptoms were not serious enough and to stay at home and self isolate he subsequently died - so tragic!
|
|
angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Back and to the left..
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 646
|
Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 10, 2020 7:32:05 GMT
I found it quite upsetting to a hear the other day, that a front line NHS worker (West Indian male nurse with 20 years service) was rejected for treatment after contracting the desease in his line of duty (ch4 news). He was told his symptoms were not serious enough and to stay at home and self isolate he subsequently died - so tragic! That is terrible, maybe he nose dived very quickly. The risk that front line medical staff are being asked to take is unreasonable in my opinion. You could argue that front line medical staff should be given priority treatment but you might end up with wards full of NHS staff which would obviously be a political disaster.
|
|
one21
Member of DD Central
Posts: 398
Likes: 265
|
Post by one21 on Apr 10, 2020 7:50:15 GMT
I found it quite upsetting to a hear the other day, that a front line NHS worker (West Indian male nurse with 20 years service) was rejected for treatment after contracting the desease in his line of duty (ch4 news). He was told his symptoms were not serious enough and to stay at home and self isolate he subsequently died - so tragic! That is terrible, maybe he nose dived very quickly. The risk that front line medical staff are being asked to take is unreasonable in my opinion. You could argue that front line medical staff should be given priority treatment but you might end up with wards full of NHS staff which would obviously be a political disaster. Yes its difficult situation, but you would assume that being a nurse he would know whether or not he himself needed treatment. Another Doctor has sucombed BBC news this morning, but at least I think he was being treated. They are subject to such high levels of viral load at close proximity, and the PPE is not adequate.
|
|
angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Back and to the left..
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 646
|
Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 10, 2020 8:20:03 GMT
That is terrible, maybe he nose dived very quickly. The risk that front line medical staff are being asked to take is unreasonable in my opinion. You could argue that front line medical staff should be given priority treatment but you might end up with wards full of NHS staff which would obviously be a political disaster. Yes its difficult situation. Another Doctor has sucombed BBC news this morning, but at least I think he was being treated. They are subject to such high levels of viral load at close proximity, and the PPE is not adequate. I also think bus drivers have been put in unreasonable danger. On my last trip into London before the lockdown I saw buses packed full of people and thought that bus drivers are being put at serious risk breathing that air all day long. Not surprisingly a number of them have contracted the virus. I have read that if you get the virus your chances of recovery are better if you get a small initial dose so your body has more time to react, which is one of the justifications of wearing a mask. If you are on a ward full of patients with the disease the amount of virus you are breathing in must be considerable. A number of medical researchers seem to be suggesting it is spread via aerosol which suggest it is a lot harder to avoid. I am only going in my garden on certain wind directions to avoid risks from breathing in virus from neighbours in their gardens. Even though it is a detached property with fairly well spaced gardens, I can smell when they smoke in their garden so I don't see why I cant theoretically breath in the virus if they cough releasing a cloud of particles - sounds a bit OTT but I would rather do everything I can to avoid this. People underestimate how far pathogens that are suspended as aerosol can travel, I would suggest reading this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon_in_the_Freezer
|
|
one21
Member of DD Central
Posts: 398
Likes: 265
|
Post by one21 on Apr 10, 2020 9:08:28 GMT
Yes its difficult situation. Another Doctor has sucombed BBC news this morning, but at least I think he was being treated. They are subject to such high levels of viral load at close proximity, and the PPE is not adequate. I also think bus drivers have been put in unreasonable danger. On my last trip into London before the lockdown I saw buses packed full of people and thought that bus drivers are being put at serious risk breathing that air all day long. Not surprisingly a number of them have contracted the virus. I have read that if you get the virus your chances of recovery are better if you get a small initial dose so your body has more time to react, which is one of the justifications of wearing a mask. If you are on a ward full of patients with the disease the amount of virus you are breathing in must be considerable. A number of medical researchers seem to be suggesting it is spread via aerosol which suggest it is a lot harder to avoid. I am only going in my garden on certain wind directions to avoid risks from breathing in virus from neighbours in their gardens. Even though it is a detached property with fairly well spaced gardens, I can smell when they smoke in their garden so I don't see why I cant theoretically breath in the virus if they cough releasing a cloud of particles - sounds a bit OTT but I would rather do everything I can to avoid this. People underestimate how far pathogens that are suspended as aerosol can travel, I would suggest reading this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon_in_the_FreezerYes agreed if the wind can bring sand from the Sahara Desert etc!
|
|
angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Back and to the left..
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 646
|
Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 10, 2020 9:16:19 GMT
I also think bus drivers have been put in unreasonable danger. On my last trip into London before the lockdown I saw buses packed full of people and thought that bus drivers are being put at serious risk breathing that air all day long. Not surprisingly a number of them have contracted the virus. I have read that if you get the virus your chances of recovery are better if you get a small initial dose so your body has more time to react, which is one of the justifications of wearing a mask. If you are on a ward full of patients with the disease the amount of virus you are breathing in must be considerable. A number of medical researchers seem to be suggesting it is spread via aerosol which suggest it is a lot harder to avoid. I am only going in my garden on certain wind directions to avoid risks from breathing in virus from neighbours in their gardens. Even though it is a detached property with fairly well spaced gardens, I can smell when they smoke in their garden so I don't see why I cant theoretically breath in the virus if they cough releasing a cloud of particles - sounds a bit OTT but I would rather do everything I can to avoid this. People underestimate how far pathogens that are suspended as aerosol can travel, I would suggest reading this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon_in_the_FreezerYes agreed if the wind can bring sand from the Sahara Desert etc! This is an example of how far airborne pathogens can travel: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverdlovsk_anthrax_leakSheep 200 kilometres downwind from the facility were infected. (Note: I am not suggesting Covid19 is anything like this, I am just using this as an extreme example)
|
|
cb25
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 2,666
Member is Online
|
Post by cb25 on Apr 10, 2020 9:23:30 GMT
Yes its difficult situation. Another Doctor has sucombed BBC news this morning, but at least I think he was being treated. They are subject to such high levels of viral load at close proximity, and the PPE is not adequate. I also think bus drivers have been put in unreasonable danger. On my last trip into London before the lockdown I saw buses packed full of people and thought that bus drivers are being put at serious risk breathing that air all day long. Not surprisingly a number of them have contracted the virus. I have read that if you get the virus your chances of recovery are better if you get a small initial dose so your body has more time to react, which is one of the justifications of wearing a mask. If you are on a ward full of patients with the disease the amount of virus you are breathing in must be considerable. A number of medical researchers seem to be suggesting it is spread via aerosol which suggest it is a lot harder to avoid. I am only going in my garden on certain wind directions to avoid risks from breathing in virus from neighbours in their gardens. Even though it is a detached property with fairly well spaced gardens, I can smell when they smoke in their garden so I don't see why I cant theoretically breath in the virus if they cough releasing a cloud of particles - sounds a bit OTT but I would rather do everything I can to avoid this. People underestimate how far pathogens that are suspended as aerosol can travel, I would suggest reading this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon_in_the_FreezerPartly in order to give myself some perspective on the Covid deaths announced daily and partly out of (morbid) curiousity, I looked up the ONS figures for deaths from all causes in 2018 (latest full year available, spreadsheet here)
average averageAge Male Female Both sexes % of total monthly daily 0-9 1,960 1,593 3,553 0.6 296 10 10-19 876 454 1,330 0.2 111 4 20-29 2,658 1,116 3,774 0.6 315 10 30-39 4,648 2,622 7,270 1.2 606 20 40-49 9,916 6,164 16,080 2.6 1,340 44 50-59 21,628 14,657 36,285 5.9 3,024 99 60-69 41,124 28,578 69,702 11.3 5,809 191 70-79 76,911 60,250 137,161 22.3 11,430 376 80-89 101,346 109,609 210,955 34.2 17,580 578 90-99 42,230 81,465 123,695 20.1 10,308 339 100+ 1,076 5,133 6,209 1.0 517 17 Total 304,373 311,641 616,014 100.0 51,335 1,688
60+ 262,687 285,035 547,722 88.9 45,644 1,501 70+ 221,563 256,457 478,020 77.6 39,835 1,310 80+ 144,652 196,207 340,859 55.3 28,405 934 90+ 43,306 86,598 129,904 21.1 10,825 356
I'd be interested to know if the government is applying a "it's worth spending £x to save a life from Covid19, regardless of damage to the economy or peoples' health/wealth" (*) and, if so, whether they applied that same formula to the average 50,000 lives lost monthly in 2018.
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,884
Likes: 1,603
|
Post by benaj on Apr 10, 2020 9:28:07 GMT
I also think bus drivers have been put in unreasonable danger. On my last trip into London before the lockdown I saw buses packed full of people and thought that bus drivers are being put at serious risk breathing that air all day long. Not surprisingly a number of them have contracted the virus. ... I see that's a real possibility companies are pushing drivers-less public transport technology even faster, more robotic carers / practitioners in hospitals.
|
|
angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Back and to the left..
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 646
|
Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 10, 2020 9:41:03 GMT
Partly in order to give myself some perspective on the Covid deaths announced daily and partly out of (morbid) curiousity, I looked up the ONS figures for deaths from all causes in 2018 (latest full year available, spreadsheet here)
average averageAge Male Female Both sexes % of total monthly daily 0-9 1,960 1,593 3,553 0.6 296 10 10-19 876 454 1,330 0.2 111 4 20-29 2,658 1,116 3,774 0.6 315 10 30-39 4,648 2,622 7,270 1.2 606 20 40-49 9,916 6,164 16,080 2.6 1,340 44 50-59 21,628 14,657 36,285 5.9 3,024 99 60-69 41,124 28,578 69,702 11.3 5,809 191 70-79 76,911 60,250 137,161 22.3 11,430 376 80-89 101,346 109,609 210,955 34.2 17,580 578 90-99 42,230 81,465 123,695 20.1 10,308 339 100+ 1,076 5,133 6,209 1.0 517 17 Total 304,373 311,641 616,014 100.0 51,335 1,688
60+ 262,687 285,035 547,722 88.9 45,644 1,501 70+ 221,563 256,457 478,020 77.6 39,835 1,310 80+ 144,652 196,207 340,859 55.3 28,405 934 90+ 43,306 86,598 129,904 21.1 10,825 356
I'd be interested to know if the government is applying a "it's worth spending £x to save a life from Covid19, regardless of damage to the economy or peoples' health/wealth" (*) and, if so, whether they applied that same formula to the average 50,000 lives lost monthly in 2018. I think we are all just statistics in the bigger scheme of things, there is no doubt the government are doing the sums on different scenarios. At the end of the day you will not get anywhere near No 10, the White House etc if they don't think you are willing to use the nuclear deterrent.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,625
Likes: 4,195
|
Post by agent69 on Apr 10, 2020 9:50:11 GMT
Yes agreed if the wind can bring sand from the Sahara Desert etc! This is an example of how far airborne pathogens can travel: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverdlovsk_anthrax_leakSheep 200 kilometres downwind from the facility were infected. (Note: I am not suggesting Covid19 is anything like this, I am just using this as an extreme example) So why have you posted it in the Covid19 thread?
What we need is more well reasoned debate, and less alarmist tripe.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,625
Likes: 4,195
|
Post by agent69 on Apr 10, 2020 10:01:28 GMT
Triangulation / location identification using mobile phone location data is... unlikely to be achievable with that fidelity. As an example, the reason you're not meant to use a mobile on a plane is not because of any risk to the plane. It's because you throw the mobile cells you pass over a wobbly because you're moving too quickly. Bluetooth however, is a different matter. And that is what I think the systems in SK and Singapore have been using. Whilst there are privacy / state monitoring etc concerns, I think, in the circumstances, the benefit probably outweighs the costs and risks. It's not hard to imagine an architecture designed roughly along the following lines:- 1. All phones report all phones that they've been able to touch by Bluetooth over the last two weeks to a central database. Naturally encrypted up the wazzoo. - in my case that would probably catch my lodger, the neighbours either side of me, and all the people I had passed on my way to the supermarket or at the supermarket. 2. Should anybody in that database test positive for covid-19 then "it" pings a message at all phones that have been in contact with it within the last x days, advising the owners to self-isolate. It flags those numbers as being of higher risk than unknown numbers. 3. n days after the initial report it deletes the data about the original "positive" number (either dead, or survived and no longer contagious), or maybe puts it on a "not an issue" list? 4. y days after that it deletes the data for all people notified in 2. unless one of them has tested positive. (This is me postulating after a bottle of wine so is likely rough around the edges, but you get the idea). Assuming that people behave remotely rationally something like this should be a) effective, and b) self limiting as in the more it works the less people there are to be infected, the less data it collects, and the less people "monitoring" it undertakes. My main concern is switching the system off again afterwards. Remember that scene in Batman Begins when Lucius Fox resigns? As an aside, I suspect there's also a trove of interesting data buried in credit card spending patterns. Do you have any evidence for this, as all the articles I can find say the exact oposite
|
|
one21
Member of DD Central
Posts: 398
Likes: 265
|
Post by one21 on Apr 10, 2020 10:17:09 GMT
This is an example of how far airborne pathogens can travel: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverdlovsk_anthrax_leakSheep 200 kilometres downwind from the facility were infected. (Note: I am not suggesting Covid19 is anything like this, I am just using this as an extreme example) So why have you posted it in the Covid19 thread?
What we need is more well reasoned debate, and less alarmist tripe.
What we need is more common sense in our every day activities. Most educated people should know that particles can be transported great distances on the wind / thermal currents.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,212
Likes: 6,021
|
Post by registerme on Apr 10, 2020 10:27:59 GMT
Do you have any evidence for this, as all the articles I can find say the exact oposite I definitely used to have some. I'll try and dig it out. Mind you it was years ago that I read up about it.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,212
Likes: 6,021
|
Post by registerme on Apr 10, 2020 10:50:21 GMT
|
|