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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 20, 2020 11:55:55 GMT
Great, I get to have a second crack at this (it's like a free bet from Paddy Power!). My builder was round this afternoon to have a look at a water leak coming in from the roof somewhere (likely my solar PV ). His son works for McLaren Racing, and they test their staff every second week - he tested positive this evening. This year just keeps on giving and giving . sorry to hear that. You should try to keep distance from builders and the like that yoiu have round. But you don't need me to tell you that. I had some around a couple of weeks ago to do significant work but outdoors. Every time I need to engage, I kept a good social distance, but they lead guy would just keeping moving up closer. Have got them round to do some more work today, and same thing...... Keep safe.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 20, 2020 14:03:05 GMT
There seem to be various vaccines now in full scale production (and in use in China and possibly elsewhere) although not fully proven, why not let people (who are willing to take the hopefully small risk) have the vaccine. If a lot of young healthy people elected to have the vaccine it could have a rapid, significant effect on the spread (assuming of course that it works!). Imagine the situation if FDA and/or MHRA gave their permission and it went horribly wrong. What would that do for the roll-out of all the various vaccines worldwide? We have enough problem in the UK due to MMR, and perhaps one of the contributory factors in the UK not rolling out MMRV. If thousands of people have already had the Chinese one and they are not reporting it going horribly wrong (although of course they might not!) why should it here, there are always adverse reactions to even very common medications (for a few individuals very severe) but we don't withhold them from everybody because of that. And people are dying daily from this disease. There are small trials going on here already, why not turn them into big trials at least?
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Post by dan1 on Oct 20, 2020 15:06:14 GMT
Imagine the situation if FDA and/or MHRA gave their permission and it went horribly wrong. What would that do for the roll-out of all the various vaccines worldwide? We have enough problem in the UK due to MMR, and perhaps one of the contributory factors in the UK not rolling out MMRV. If thousands of people have already had the Chinese one and they are not reporting it going horribly wrong (although of course they might not!) why should it here, there are always adverse reactions to even very common medications (for a few individuals very severe) but we don't withhold them from everybody because of that. And people are dying daily from this disease. There are small trials going on here already, why not turn them into big trials at least? I've no problems taking a Chinese or Russian invented vaccine so long as it passes the proper regulatory stages and approvals in the UK. The procedures for developing vaccines are there for very good reasons and I wouldn't pretend that I know better. I assume they'll be released under emergency use authorisations and will be rolled out as soon as practicable. I trust the many good people in FDA and MHRA. The AZN / Oxford Uni trial has 30,000 participants - seems pretty big to me. Worth noting that although it was restarted in the UK following an adverse reaction I believe it's still paused in the US (I guess the FDA aren't content for it to restart yet?). I think there's also confusion around the J&J vaccine following an adverse reaction but the last I heard it was still unclear whether that was in a vaccinated patient as distinct from one given a placebo.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 20, 2020 15:19:32 GMT
If thousands of people have already had the Chinese one and they are not reporting it going horribly wrong (although of course they might not!) why should it here, there are always adverse reactions to even very common medications (for a few individuals very severe) but we don't withhold them from everybody because of that. And people are dying daily from this disease. There are small trials going on here already, why not turn them into big trials at least? I've no problems taking a Chinese or Russian invented vaccine so long as it passes the proper regulatory stages and approvals in the UK. The procedures for developing vaccines are there for very good reasons and I wouldn't pretend that I know better. I assume they'll be released under emergency use authorisations and will be rolled out as soon as practicable. I trust the many good people in FDA and MHRA. The AZN / Oxford Uni trial has 30,000 participants - seems pretty big to me. Worth noting that although it was restarted in the UK following an adverse reaction I believe it's still paused in the US (I guess the FDA aren't content for it to restart yet?). I think there's also confusion around the J&J vaccine following an adverse reaction but the last I heard it was still unclear whether that was in a vaccinated patient as distinct from one given a placebo. Out of 60,000,000 population. You then have to wait for any of them to get infected 20 in 100,000 is a figure I remember as some sort of trigger level for the virus getting out of control, so hardly anyone in the trial is likely to catch it (unless the infection rate goes up a lot), maybe 6 out of the 30,000 hardly enough to prove if the vaccine works well.
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 20, 2020 16:02:00 GMT
Imagine the situation if FDA and/or MHRA gave their permission and it went horribly wrong. What would that do for the roll-out of all the various vaccines worldwide? We have enough problem in the UK due to MMR, and perhaps one of the contributory factors in the UK not rolling out MMRV. If thousands of people have already had the Chinese one and they are not reporting it going horribly wrong (although of course they might not!) why should it here, there are always adverse reactions to even very common medications (for a few individuals very severe) but we don't withhold them from everybody because of that. And people are dying daily from this disease. There are small trials going on here already, why not turn them into big trials at least? I'm not sure I'd want to take the Chinese vaccine at this stage. not unless it had MHRA approval. Not saying they can't make a great vaccine, just not comfortable we would hear if it was going a bit wrong.
The UK is talking about "Challenge Trials" which could fast track ascertaining the effectiveness of one or more candidate vaccines.
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Post by dan1 on Oct 20, 2020 17:37:34 GMT
I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with Greater Manchester.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Oct 20, 2020 17:42:07 GMT
I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with Greater Manchester. Yeh. That's the end of any final smidgen of compliance. Corona and etc. aside, this is turning into quite a sorry tale of mankind's ability to deal with other badly. Meanwhile I see Mr Kahn is no longer advocating a massive lockdown, now London has local rules apparently it's high time the 10pm curfew was abolished.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 20, 2020 17:54:31 GMT
If thousands of people have already had the Chinese one and they are not reporting it going horribly wrong (although of course they might not!) why should it here, there are always adverse reactions to even very common medications (for a few individuals very severe) but we don't withhold them from everybody because of that. And people are dying daily from this disease. There are small trials going on here already, why not turn them into big trials at least? I'm not sure I'd want to take the Chinese vaccine at this stage. not unless it had MHRA approval. Not saying they can't make a great vaccine, just not comfortable we would hear if it was going a bit wrong.
The UK is talking about "Challenge Trials" which could fast track ascertaining the effectiveness of one or more candidate vaccines.
I see a parallel has already started. The uni students were told start uni, an easy excuse for them to get COVID unethically. One could argue the outbreaks happen in Uni are avoidable. For those who got covid after starting the Uni life, should they be subject for faster COVID research and get reimbursement financially?
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 20, 2020 18:05:13 GMT
I've no problems taking a Chinese or Russian invented vaccine so long as it passes the proper regulatory stages and approvals in the UK. The procedures for developing vaccines are there for very good reasons and I wouldn't pretend that I know better. I assume they'll be released under emergency use authorisations and will be rolled out as soon as practicable. I trust the many good people in FDA and MHRA. The AZN / Oxford Uni trial has 30,000 participants - seems pretty big to me. Worth noting that although it was restarted in the UK following an adverse reaction I believe it's still paused in the US (I guess the FDA aren't content for it to restart yet?). I think there's also confusion around the J&J vaccine following an adverse reaction but the last I heard it was still unclear whether that was in a vaccinated patient as distinct from one given a placebo. Out of 60,000,000 population. You then have to wait for any of them to get infected 20 in 100,000 is a figure I remember as some sort of trigger level for the virus getting out of control, so hardly anyone in the trial is likely to catch it (unless the infection rate goes up a lot), maybe 6 out of the 30,000 hardly enough to prove if the vaccine works well.
I think they were trialling the Oxford vaccine in Brazil and S.Africa too, hopefully it's actually working well out there, even if it's not getting much "use" here.
Separately; there was a first phase drugs trial completely unrelated to covid, a few years ago now, where several of the people in it seemed as if they were going to die within hours of taking the new drug and were taken to ICU. Being a phaseone there was only a few people in the test.
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Post by dan1 on Oct 20, 2020 21:32:15 GMT
Andy Burnham has demonstrated courage and principle, hope and determination and a spirit that the British people can be proud of.
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Oct 20, 2020 22:29:24 GMT
When was that ? Seems quite out of character for that chancer tbh.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Oct 21, 2020 8:20:58 GMT
And the follow up questions: a) Would you support lifting the circuit breaker when deaths are still rising after 2 weeks? b) Are you sure? c) Actually, come to think of it, it doesn't matter what you think really because it will be politically impossible to lift it after 2 weeks, so lets be honest and call it a second lockdown shall we? Not sure why local implementation of one's chosen NPIs is a problem myself. It feels a bit like because things are worse in some areas of the country we all have to suffer so that they don't feel they are being singled out. Interesting post in the context of the Welsh 17 day fire-break. Will they come out as planned? Yes will be interesting. Wales still has relatively few deaths so might be a bit easier to lift. Also, politics outside of England/Westminster seems a little less histrionic.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 21, 2020 9:43:23 GMT
Andy Burnham has demonstrated courage and principle, hope and determination and a spirit that the British people can be proud of. Or alternatively he is a jumped up chancer full of his own self importance, who is prepared to risk lives in Manchester to further his own career. He demands evidence before agreeing to tier 3, but offer no evidence when calling for low risk areas to be included in a national lockdown. Interesting contrast to the Labour mayor of Sheffield who described moving into tier 3 as " the responsible route to ensure we save lives and livelihoods".
Ultimately, I guess the blame rests with the PM who thought that devolution of power was a good idea, so now everyone want's to negotiate their own deal (or like Liverpool, after you have negotiated your own deal you then complain bitterly that somebody else has got a better deal)
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Post by dan1 on Oct 21, 2020 10:17:50 GMT
Andy Burnham has demonstrated courage and principle, hope and determination and a spirit that the British people can be proud of. Or alternatively he is a jumped up chancer full of his own self importance, who is prepared to risk lives in Manchester to further his own career. He demands evidence before agreeing to tier 3, but offer no evidence when calling for low risk areas to be included in a national lockdown. Interesting contrast to the Labour mayor of Sheffield who described moving into tier 3 as " the responsible route to ensure we save lives and livelihoods".
Ultimately, I guess the blame rests with the PM who thought that devolution of power was a good idea, so now everyone want's to negotiate their own deal (or like Liverpool, after you have negotiated your own deal you then complain bitterly that somebody else has got a better deal) Ooops..... forgot the quotes. Twas from a Tory MP relayed via the Torygraph
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Oct 21, 2020 10:18:18 GMT
So I am looking at the NHS "When to self isolate" guidance page - www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-and-treatment/when-to-self-isolate-and-what-to-do/It says two things that I find somewhat contradictory, or perhaps confusing:- 1. Self-isolate immediately if you live with someone who has symptoms or tested positive. 2. If you think you've been in contact with someone who has coronavirus, but you do not have symptoms and have not been told to self-isolate, continue to follow social distancing advice. Is it just me?
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