benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 9, 2020 16:05:25 GMT
www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against- Vaccine candidate was found to be more than 90% effective in preventing COVID-19 in participants without evidence of prior SARS-CoV-2 infection in the first interim efficacy analysis - Analysis evaluated 94 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in trial participants ... -Clinical trial to continue through to final analysis at 164 confirmed cases in order to collect further data and characterize the vaccine candidate’s performance against other study endpoints
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 9, 2020 16:46:29 GMT
People are already dying . Corona Virus accelerates it. The sooner we realise we are going to die (eventually) the better. Do you really think that you deserve to be put on a ventilator at the age of seventy plus? The recuperation is enough to incapacitate you for the rest of your (unnatural) life and make a loving burden for the rest of your family. The hospitals are full of the weak,who arrived there first. The rest should be turned away to die or survive at home. Because we have the excuse of 'work' there's no one around to help them through their last days unless you can afford to take time off work. Its a hard truth but we have off loaded the responsibiity of care (for children and the elderly) for the easier option of 'work' and monetary wealth. Its turned around and bitten us. How old are you? Your parents?
I'm 70. My expectation of life is about 15-20 years. I'd thank you not to be so cavalier with my wellbeing
Me too. Lets hope we are both fit enough to stay out of the hands of the medics and not be a burden to our families, however much they may love us.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 9, 2020 16:58:09 GMT
People are already dying . Corona Virus accelerates it. The sooner we realise we are going to die (eventually) the better. Do you really think that you deserve to be put on a ventilator at the age of seventy plus? The recuperation is enough to incapacitate you for the rest of your (unnatural) life and make a loving burden for the rest of your family. The hospitals are full of the weak,who arrived there first. The rest should be turned away to die or survive at home. Because we have the excuse of 'work' there's no one around to help them through their last days unless you can afford to take time off work. Its a hard truth but we have off loaded the responsibiity of care (for children and the elderly) for the easier option of 'work' and monetary wealth. Its turned around and bitten us. A lot of people 70+ are fit and still working! They are not just sitting around waiting to die or needing (or even wanting) to be looked after by family. I don't know your experiences of people over 70 but it doesn't seem to match mine. Survival ofthe fittest. If we are that healthy we should be able to throw off the bug easily. No one wants to be a burden to their family ,but I assure you ,YOU WILL unless you go out like a light . They will offer you love, care, and dutifully look after you and because you are so strong you will last for years and exact a big toll probably financially and certainly mentally and physically. It will most probably shorten their life expectation too, due to exhaustion and stress. Why is this ? Because the medical profession can keep you going and wont die for a long time
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 9, 2020 17:33:01 GMT
I don't always agree with travolta, and I am far from sure that I agree with them on this topic. But we do, desperately, need a mature, reasoned, compassionate discussion about end of life care, especially for the elderly. Because what we have in place now isn't really working for anybody. No easy answers though.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 9, 2020 17:45:36 GMT
A lot of people 70+ are fit and still working! They are not just sitting around waiting to die or needing (or even wanting) to be looked after by family. I don't know your experiences of people over 70 but it doesn't seem to match mine. Survival ofthe fittest. If we are that healthy we should be able to throw off the bug easily. No one wants to be a burden to their family ,but I assure you ,YOU WILL unless you go out like a light . They will offer you love, care, and dutifully look after you and because you are so strong you will last for years and exact a big toll probably financially and certainly mentally and physically. It will most probably shorten their life expectation too, due to exhaustion and stress. Why is this ? Because the medical profession can keep you going and wont die for a long time Don't worry I'm going out with a bang! But I thought you said they wouldn't/shouldn't keep me going if I was over 70? You do realise that people don't pick up their pension at 60/65 get their watch/clock etc and go home to sit in front of the fire in their slippers, smoking their pipe, watching day time tv and waiting for the grim reaper, these days they have a life! People always seem to say, you start declining after 30, when you hit 40 you're past it, when you hit 60 you will really feel it, I feel pretty much the same as when I was 20, move a bit slower maybe but I can cope with that. 70 is the new 50. A few years ago my very active neighbour died, we would chat over the fence but weren't close. I went to the funeral and talking to her family, the lady I assumed was in her mid sixties, pushing 70 maybe was actually 82!
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 9, 2020 17:56:22 GMT
I don't always agree with travolta , and I am far from sure that I agree with them on this topic. But we do, desperately, need a mature, reasoned, compassionate discussion about end of life care, especially for the elderly. Because what we have in place now isn't really working for anybody. No easy answers though. We have to take responsibilty for ourselves. Most everyone puts it off until it's beyond them. It's very pertinent right now because choices have to be made. Its extremely selfish not to face up to mortality. This is why we are in this ridiculous position of lockdown and finacial ruin because we all have our shoulders sloping with fingers in our ears (quite difficult to do that) saying:' No not me , not now , not like this!'
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Post by dan1 on Nov 9, 2020 19:33:27 GMT
A good twitter thread....
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 9, 2020 20:11:01 GMT
I don't always agree with travolta , and I am far from sure that I agree with them on this topic. But we do, desperately, need a mature, reasoned, compassionate discussion about end of life care, especially for the elderly. Because what we have in place now isn't really working for anybody. No easy answers though. We have to take responsibilty for ourselves. Most everyone puts it off until it's beyond them. It's very pertinent right now because choices have to be made. Its extremely selfish not to face up to mortality. This is why we are in this ridiculous position of lockdown and finacial ruin because we all have our shoulders sloping with fingers in our ears (quite difficult to do that) saying:' No not me , not now , not like this!' Ridiculous, we all know we are mortal and most of us are not dying now or 'like this' although obviously we will eventually (or even soon), as will the current young and well eventually. I know a lot of people are in real financial problems and I hope they can recover, including old, young and in between. As far as I'm aware most people are not panicking about dying of Covid although it is an added risk.
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Nov 9, 2020 20:37:23 GMT
Ridiculous, we all know we are mortal and most of us are not dying now or 'like this' although obviously we will eventually (or even soon), as will the current young and well eventually. I know a lot of people are in real financial problems and I hope they can recover, including old, young and in between. As far as I'm aware most people are not panicking about dying of Covid although it is an added risk. As Mark Twain reportedly said, “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” Just like wearing a mask, it's not so much about protecting yourself, it's about protecting other people.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 9, 2020 20:52:12 GMT
We have to take responsibilty for ourselves. Most everyone puts it off until it's beyond them. It's very pertinent right now because choices have to be made. Its extremely selfish not to face up to mortality. This is why we are in this ridiculous position of lockdown and finacial ruin because we all have our shoulders sloping with fingers in our ears (quite difficult to do that) saying:' No not me , not now , not like this!' Ridiculous, we all know we are mortal and most of us are not dying now or 'like this' although obviously we will eventually (or even soon), as will the current young and well eventually. I know a lot of people are in real financial problems and I hope they can recover, including old, young and in between. As far as I'm aware most people are not panicking about dying of Covid although it is an added risk. No, not ridiculous.It's irresponsible not to recognise the impact that your extended demise will have upon your family. My point was not directly related to death by Covid, although the present crisis should focus the mind on how you age. Our present predicament is not the virus but the fact that we carry a huge frail aging population who will need NHS care if they catch the disease. We have to face our decay and just how far we can live fairly without being a burden on state and family. You have here the perfect example on how it is necessary to face this dilema that will eventually be our own . Do you duck it and hope someone will look after you?
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Nov 9, 2020 21:08:00 GMT
Ridiculous, we all know we are mortal and most of us are not dying now or 'like this' although obviously we will eventually (or even soon), as will the current young and well eventually. I know a lot of people are in real financial problems and I hope they can recover, including old, young and in between. As far as I'm aware most people are not panicking about dying of Covid although it is an added risk. No, not ridiculous.It's irresponsible not to recognise the impact that your extended demise will have upon your family. My point was not directly related to death by Covid, although the present crisis should focus the mind on how you age. Our present predicament is not the virus but the fact that we carry a huge frail aging population who will need NHS care if they catch the disease. We have to face our decay and just how far we can live fairly without being a burden on state and family. You have here the perfect example on how it is necessary to face this dilema that will eventually be our own . Do you duck it and hope someone will look after you? I don't exactly disagree with you, but also honestly not quite sure what you're proposing as the alternative travolta ? Mandatory euthanasia at 75? Being put down if you're over 70 and have a fall? We will all get old and sick one day, and being left to fend for yourself at any age, even 100, doesn't seem the right answer. In my view the NHS usually can (just about) cope but as with most of the world at the moment we have measures in place to slow down the pace of this outbreak to help it do so. Re: social care, it definitely needs reform. Anyone who has had a relative with advanced dementia will have seen how difficult it is to either manage yourself or put on the state. No easy answers, but introducing the much delayed social care bill would be a start.
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slippery
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Post by slippery on Nov 9, 2020 23:01:17 GMT
No, not ridiculous.It's irresponsible not to recognise the impact that your extended demise will have upon your family. My point was not directly related to death by Covid, although the present crisis should focus the mind on how you age. Our present predicament is not the virus but the fact that we carry a huge frail aging population who will need NHS care if they catch the disease. We have to face our decay and just how far we can live fairly without being a burden on state and family. You have here the perfect example on how it is necessary to face this dilema that will eventually be our own . Do you duck it and hope someone will look after you? I don't exactly disagree with you, but also honestly not quite sure what you're proposing as the alternative travolta ? Mandatory euthanasia at 75? Being put down if you're over 70 and have a fall? We will all get old and sick one day, and being left to fend for yourself at any age, even 100, doesn't seem the right answer. In my view the NHS usually can (just about) cope but as with most of the world at the moment we have measures in place to slow down the pace of this outbreak to help it do so. Re: social care, it definitely needs reform. Anyone who has had a relative with advanced dementia will have seen how difficult it is to either manage yourself or put on the state. No easy answers, but introducing the much delayed social care bill would be a start. Well the abuse of the Liverpool Care Pathway allowed hospital staff to let people die of hunger & thirst because they were elderly & not considered important enough (I don't mean those who would have needed artificial feeding etc - just those who were ill so could not get out of the hospital bed to source water when staff refused to provide food & water). Re: advanced dementia - once they've sorted Covid I would quite like the boffins to focus on a dementia cure. In the next 10-15 years please .....
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 10, 2020 0:54:39 GMT
Well the abuse of the Liverpool Care Pathway allowed hospital staff to let people die of hunger & thirst because they were elderly & not considered important enough (I don't mean those who would have needed artificial feeding etc - just those who were ill so could not get out of the hospital bed to source water when staff refused to provide food & water). That's pretty punchy. If you've got material supporting that I'd like to read it.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 10, 2020 6:33:43 GMT
Ridiculous, we all know we are mortal and most of us are not dying now or 'like this' although obviously we will eventually (or even soon), as will the current young and well eventually. I know a lot of people are in real financial problems and I hope they can recover, including old, young and in between. As far as I'm aware most people are not panicking about dying of Covid although it is an added risk. No, not ridiculous.It's irresponsible not to recognise the impact that your extended demise will have upon your family. My point was not directly related to death by Covid, although the present crisis should focus the mind on how you age. Our present predicament is not the virus but the fact that we carry a huge frail aging population who will need NHS care if they catch the disease. We have to face our decay and just how far we can live fairly without being a burden on state and family. You have here the perfect example on how it is necessary to face this dilema that will eventually be our own . Do you duck it and hope someone will look after you? OK, so what are we meant to do, sit in a corner crying into our beer because we're not 20 any more? Book a place at dignitas when we hit 70 because we don't want to live long enough to become a burden? What is your solution, how do you propose to not be a burden on society and the NHS when you are old and decrepit, or 70 and catch Covid, or flu, or break a leg?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 10, 2020 9:34:14 GMT
A lot of people 70+ are fit and still working! They are not just sitting around waiting to die or needing (or even wanting) to be looked after by family. I don't know your experiences of people over 70 but it doesn't seem to match mine. Survival ofthe fittest. If we are that healthy we should be able to throw off the bug easily. No one wants to be a burden to their family ,but I assure you ,YOU WILL unless you go out like a light . They will offer you love, care, and dutifully look after you and because you are so strong you will last for years and exact a big toll probably financially and certainly mentally and physically. It will most probably shorten their life expectation too, due to exhaustion and stress. Why is this ? Because the medical profession can keep you going and wont die for a long time So we do away with the NHS all together? This is the current batting list for the vacine, what would your list look like?
1) older adults’ resident in a care home and care home workers1 2) all those 80 years of age and over and health and social care workers1 3) all those 75 years of age and over 4) all those 70 years of age and over 5) all those 65 years of age and over 6) high-risk adults under 65 years of age 7) moderate-risk adults under 65 years of age 8) all those 60 years of age and over 9) all those 55 years of age and over 10) all those 50 years of age and over 11) rest of the population (priority to be determined)2
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