IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 10, 2020 9:49:39 GMT
Survival ofthe fittest. If we are that healthy we should be able to throw off the bug easily. No one wants to be a burden to their family ,but I assure you ,YOU WILL unless you go out like a light . They will offer you love, care, and dutifully look after you and because you are so strong you will last for years and exact a big toll probably financially and certainly mentally and physically. It will most probably shorten their life expectation too, due to exhaustion and stress. Why is this ? Because the medical profession can keep you going and wont die for a long time So we do away with the NHS all together? This is the current batting list for the vacine, what would your list look like?
1) older adults’ resident in a care home and care home workers1 2) all those 80 years of age and over and health and social care workers1 3) all those 75 years of age and over 4) all those 70 years of age and over 5) all those 65 years of age and over 6) high-risk adults under 65 years of age 7) moderate-risk adults under 65 years of age 8) all those 60 years of age and over 9) all those 55 years of age and over 10) all those 50 years of age and over 11) rest of the population (priority to be determined)2
you forgot NHS workers (+/- other key workers/VIPs) somewhere in the list, and then right at the very top are those who can afford to buy it privately.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 10, 2020 9:51:56 GMT
I don't exactly disagree with you, but also honestly not quite sure what you're proposing as the alternative travolta ? Mandatory euthanasia at 75? Being put down if you're over 70 and have a fall? We will all get old and sick one day, and being left to fend for yourself at any age, even 100, doesn't seem the right answer. In my view the NHS usually can (just about) cope but as with most of the world at the moment we have measures in place to slow down the pace of this outbreak to help it do so. Re: social care, it definitely needs reform. Anyone who has had a relative with advanced dementia will have seen how difficult it is to either manage yourself or put on the state. No easy answers, but introducing the much delayed social care bill would be a start. Well the abuse of the Liverpool Care Pathway allowed hospital staff to let people die of hunger & thirst because they were elderly & not considered important enough (I don't mean those who would have needed artificial feeding etc - just those who were ill so could not get out of the hospital bed to source water when staff refused to provide food & water). Re: advanced dementia - once they've sorted Covid I would quite like the boffins to focus on a dementia cure. In the next 10-15 years please .....Unlikely. Extremely slow progress in this area, and it would have to be prevention or disease slowing rather than cure.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 10, 2020 10:14:27 GMT
So we do away with the NHS all together? This is the current batting list for the vacine, what would your list look like?
1) older adults’ resident in a care home and care home workers1 2) all those 80 years of age and over and health and social care workers1 3) all those 75 years of age and over 4) all those 70 years of age and over 5) all those 65 years of age and over 6) high-risk adults under 65 years of age 7) moderate-risk adults under 65 years of age 8) all those 60 years of age and over 9) all those 55 years of age and over 10) all those 50 years of age and over 11) rest of the population (priority to be determined)2
you forgot NHS workers (+/- other key workers/VIPs) somewhere in the list, and then right at the very top are those who can afford to buy it privately. It's not my list, it's the Governments. If it was mine people aged 64 who have gold status with BA would be top.
Will the vacine change the travel demographics of the country? Currently young people appear happy to travel anywhere that will let them in, whereas older people are reluctant to go anywhere. I wonder if older people who have been vacinated will be allowed into foreign countries whereas youngsters will be confined to blighty
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Post by dan1 on Nov 10, 2020 10:50:34 GMT
The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine requires -80° C storage - I guess this rules out mass vaccination for all but the richest countries in the world. The other RNA based vaccine in stage 3 trials is the Moderna one and the good news is that I believe it requires -20° C storage. Let's hope the efficacy of both (and all those other vaccines) make them viable.
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Nov 10, 2020 12:11:44 GMT
The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine requires -80° C storage - I guess this rules out mass vaccination for all but the richest countries in the world. The other RNA based vaccine in stage 3 trials is the Moderna one and the good news is that I believe it requires -20° C storage. Let's hope the efficacy of both (and all those other vaccines) make them viable. Can't they all just be stored in Scotland?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 10, 2020 12:26:54 GMT
Has anyone come across any information about the difficulty/expensive of storing/distributing at that temperature?
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Post by dan1 on Nov 10, 2020 12:35:48 GMT
The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine requires -80° C storage - I guess this rules out mass vaccination for all but the richest countries in the world. The other RNA based vaccine in stage 3 trials is the Moderna one and the good news is that I believe it requires -20° C storage. Let's hope the efficacy of both (and all those other vaccines) make them viable. Can't they all just be stored in Scotland? Now now, you know there aren't sufficient resources to store all of the developing & 3rd world populations in Scotland
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 10, 2020 12:39:01 GMT
Has anyone come across any information about the difficulty/expensive of storing/distributing at that temperature? Apparently solid carbon dioxide would get you to -80C, liquid nitrogen goes a lot colder, does that matter? I guess both are expensive and the insulation required would make transport difficult and expensive. It lasts for a few hours once thawed, so a lot of fast cold transport from central places as it gradually thaws up to normal freezer temperature and then up to room temperature. May need a bit of experimentation on how well it survives under different thawing regimes. It seems like the other vaccine is comparatively much easier to handle.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 10, 2020 12:41:56 GMT
Time to buy Linde PLC?
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Nov 10, 2020 12:50:10 GMT
I was just noticing that a number of the funds in my portfolio list Thermo Fisher Scientific among their largest holdings.
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Nov 10, 2020 12:54:44 GMT
Can't they all just be stored in Scotland? Now now, you know there aren't sufficient resources to store all of the developing & 3rd world populations in Scotland Well they've got 5.5 million to start them off
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 10, 2020 13:11:24 GMT
The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine requires -80° C storage - I guess this rules out mass vaccination for all but the richest countries in the world. The other RNA based vaccine in stage 3 trials is the Moderna one and the good news is that I believe it requires -20° C storage. Let's hope the efficacy of both (and all those other vaccines) make them viable. Sky were talking to a doctor this morning. He said that normal vacines will last for a long period stored in a fridge, but the Covid vacine will only last 7 days once defrosted. It apparently comes in batches of 1000 doses, so I wouldn't think it would be a problem in developed countres in getting it delivered in special vehicles and then it should be easy to knock out 1000 doses in a week. They were talking about using sports hall to carry out mass vacinations.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 10, 2020 13:18:00 GMT
I've just read (ie not confirmed it) that it's goining to be manufactured in Belgium.
What could possibly complicate that for the UK next year I wonder?
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Post by dan1 on Nov 10, 2020 13:37:44 GMT
I've just read (ie not confirmed it) that it's goining to be manufactured in Belgium. What could possibly complicate that for the UK next year I wonder? It's just as well BioNTech weren't founded by Turkish immigrants to Germany We don't want vaccines with any links to Turkey do we?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 10, 2020 13:45:52 GMT
The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine requires -80° C storage - I guess this rules out mass vaccination for all but the richest countries in the world. The other RNA based vaccine in stage 3 trials is the Moderna one and the good news is that I believe it requires -20° C storage. Let's hope the efficacy of both (and all those other vaccines) make them viable. Sky were talking to a doctor this morning. He said that normal vacines will last for a long period stored in a fridge, but the Covid vacine will only last 7 days once defrosted. It apparently comes in batches of 1000 doses, so I wouldn't think it would be a problem in developed countres in getting it delivered in special vehicles and then it should be easy to knock out 1000 doses in a week. They were talking about using sports hall to carry out mass vacinations. R4 was covering this earlier, too. Same thing about 1k dose batches - which then need to be saline-diluted on-site for injection. Apparently most hospitals can already store pharma to -80, and have the delivery chain in place. After all, Biontech are an oncology company, so presumably this is established chemo tech?
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