Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Mar 18, 2020 21:03:16 GMT
You could experiment with moisturising hand creams instead of aloe vera. Make sure you do human medical trials on yourself first though before giving it to others! If it's wrong, it'll dry and crack your hands like hell.
To be honest, if you're at home then washing thoroughly with soap is just as good. Hand sanitizer is for those occasions when you're out and don't have access to soap and water. Or where you can't trust people to wash properly.
Which is every time you are out and touch anything!
Well, you don't have to wash every time you touch anything. Having the virus on your hands won't harm you. It's only if you subsequently touch your face near your orifices (although best to keep clear of your face completely to be sure). The skin is a damn tough barrier; it keeps out all manner of pathogens that would do serious damage once they get into your nice warm moist insides.
Hence the official advice: only touch your face with thoroughly washed hands.
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Post by df on Mar 18, 2020 21:05:04 GMT
An online wine retailer I regularly use has announced that it is temporarily suspending acceptance of new orders as it is overwhelmed with extra demand. Good job my delivery arrived on Monday! Hopefully mine is arriving next Monday! Just ordered in time, so lucky for once. What are people doing with it all? I always have at least 6 bottles of spare wine in my cellar. Yesterday I bought 12 more. I also have about 20 bottles of my home made fruit wine that I keep for guests (people tend to like it, I don't  About 20 bottles of Normandy cider, good amount of beer (also kept for visitors), wide selection of spirits. I don't expect any visitors within next few months and I'm the only alcohol drinker in the household. So I think I'll be ok If this event will take much longer than anticipated I will have to stop drinking and be healthy. We will probably be able to buy some from the shops anyway when they introduce appropriate regulatory measures.
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Post by mrclondon on Mar 18, 2020 21:19:39 GMT
People in this country are not taking the measures seriously. Not even close. Not by a mile.
[..]
Anyone could see this coming. The Government needs to be infinitely more aggressive in its measures. Once it realised it had to isolate over-70's, that should have happened immediately, not next week, not even tomorrow. And the lock-down that's been gradually coming tippy-toe step by step should have been total and immediate.
I agree with everything you said in your post, but there is going to be a problem. Along with some (but not all) other countries when stricter lockdowns come, the message here will be that its fine to go out for exercise, to the park etc providing you are 2m away from people not in your household. Keeping the nation fit across months of shutdowns is going to be important. Which should work well in low density areas but will be tough to maintain the separation in London and the other big cities. The parks are often heaving on summer weekends/evenings (think spanish beach type density). Even this evening as I walked across one local park a jogger (running towards me) panting heavily swevered very close to me as he avoided a child wobbling all over the path on its bike.
I have just done a stock take on food provisions (never imagined life would come to this  ) to figure out exactly how long what I have would last. The good news is longer than I guessed, though it might get a bit boring towards the end. For now I think I can continue to shop late evening for fruit/veg/milk and not worry too much about replacing meat. I'm assuming that in due course supply & demand should stabilise.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Mar 18, 2020 21:22:56 GMT
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Bagman
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Post by Bagman on Mar 18, 2020 21:26:34 GMT
Isopropanol works. I bought a litre of 99% isopropanol a few months ago for £5.95. I thought that would last a lifetime. I wonder what the price is now.
I also have a still. Can produce approx 85% ethanol ultimately from just sugar and yeast. Quite slow though.
In the recipes you're seeing for sanitizer, the aloe vera is not an active ingredient, but will stop the alcohol wreaking hell on your skin. There must be any number of other ingredients that could take its place.
I found that I had the perfect stuff to add to my isopropanol so that is not so harsh on your hands . The VG base that I use for making my own vape juices, Vegetable glycerine (Glycerol). Cheap as chips from here VG £8.95 plus postage for 5L
Mix up at 4 parts isopropanol to 1 part VG gives you an 80% alcohol hand sanitizer , use with a little spray dispenser as its a bit too thin for a pump one.
You can add a few drops of perfume or aftershave to make it smell nicer
Edit: 101 uses for vegetable glycerine so you can utilise a full 5 litres 101 uses for VG
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Post by moonraker on Mar 18, 2020 21:35:05 GMT
People in this country are not taking the measures seriously. Not even close. Not by a mile.
I went to a supermarket today. I didn't want to.
It's in a typical town in Cambridgeshire. It was about averagely full compared to normal.
There were plenty of elderly folks in there. One or two of them looked like they had a foot in the grave already, like a nasty cold might push them over the edge. They haven't a chance if they get COVID. They should not be there. They should not even have the choice about being there. Somebody should be stopping them.
But at least they are only harming themselves.
What's worse is that hardly anybody seemed bothered about social distancing. It was hard to keep 1 metre away at all times, let alone 2 metres. Most people were either simply ignoring it, or the few that were trying seemed embarrassed to be doing it, and gave up if it became awkward.
A few people seemed to have that attitude of "it doesn't apply to me, those rules are just for other people", all too prevalent in the UK these days. Zero appreciation for others, or for society.  . Absolute . There's no point even trying to tell such savages that they are wrong. I've tried it before, like on the idiots who thinks they are exempt from the rule prohibiting parking on the zigzag lines outside my local school. You just get a face full of abuse.
Anyone could see this coming. The Government needs to be infinitely more aggressive in its measures. Once it realised it had to isolate over-70's, that should have happened immediately, not next week, not even tomorrow. And the lock-down that's been gradually coming tippy-toe step by step should have been total and immediate.
If someone had "stopped" us over-70s immediately, how would we have got food? I tried to order an on-line delivery from Waitrose yesterday; after three attempts to log on to the website, I finally managed to get a slot for April 21. (And some over-50s don't use the Internet or have a mobile phone.) In my cul de sac, three of us are over 70, two of us live alone, the third has a wife but can hardly walk to his car; the three other neighbours are of working age but none yet has offered me any help. (I think two may, if they happen to see me.) Tomorrow I'm crossing the road to see that a 91-year-old man who can barely walk and his blind wife are OK.
I'm fitter than many slobs twenty years younger than me because I've looked after myself. Last Friday I walked 17 miles without a rest; today it was only 11 miles. During my self-isolation, I intend go on longer walks and shall probably see only half-a-dozen people, so no risk there. Unlike the idiots in a gym on the Channel Four News tonight with more brawn than brain, shown sweating away close to each other. A few minutes later, the programme showed "Ten out of Ten" Trump doing his preening-frog act at a press conference with five or six people shoulder-to-shoulder behind him. Dunno who they were and what they were doing. Likewise earlier this week there was Jeremy Hunt and his Health and Social Care Committee sitting closely together, with a group of experts and their acolytes seated even more closely in front of them pontificating about the virus.
Some older people say they would rather risk contracting the virus than staying, say, in a small flat for four months or more, with quality-of-life operations postponed, boredom and lack of exercise and fresh air.
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Mar 18, 2020 21:35:25 GMT
 I'm not sure how accurate the data is, but if it's even close it's a pretty powerful message.
Absolutely this.
I can't arrive at those exact numbers, but the principle is spot on. People often say "exponential growth" to mean "fast" without realising what it means and how powerful it is.
3 to the 5th power (243) is MUCH bigger than 2 to the 5th power (32), which in turn is MUCH bigger than 1.5 to the 5th power (7.6).
The more time periods, the more dramatic it gets. 3 to the 10th power is 59,049 ; 1.5 to the 10th power is 58.
Better still: 1 to any power remains just 1.
This is precisely why I took my daughter out of school, a mass gathering that was being positively encouraged. If she was instrumental in unnecessarily infecting 2 other people, and they each infected 2 other people, who then all infected another 2, then a few steps down the line you are in the thousands, some of whom will die, and I will have their blood on my hands.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Mar 18, 2020 21:42:02 GMT
People in this country are not taking the measures seriously. Not even close. Not by a mile. <snip> There were plenty of elderly folks in there. One or two of them looked like they had a foot in the grave already, like a nasty cold might push them over the edge. They haven't a chance if they get COVID. They should not be there. They should not even have the choice about being there. Somebody should be stopping them.
But at least they are only harming themselves.
<snip> Agree with much of what you say but that's just not the case - themselves and everyone else they spread it to and all those who can't get access to the NHS for non-corona related illnesses, and the exacerbation of the financial, economic and societal meltdowns we are all enduring.
At least the lock-down of London is imminent according to the FT. Not sure there'll be much going out to exercise mrclondon 
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Mar 18, 2020 22:00:02 GMT
If someone had "stopped" us over-70s immediately, how would we have got food? I tried to order an on-line delivery from Waitrose yesterday; after three attempts to log on to the website, I finally managed to get a slot for April 21. (And some over-50s don't use the Internet or have a mobile phone.) In my cul de sac, three of us are over 70, two of us live alone, the third has a wife but can hardly walk to his car; the three other neighbours are of working age but none yet has offered me any help. (I think two may, if they happen to see me.) Tomorrow I'm crossing the road to see that a 91-year-old man who can barely walk and his blind wife are OK.
I'm fitter than many slobs twenty years younger than me because I've looked after myself. Last Friday I walked 17 miles without a rest; today it was only 11 miles. During my self-isolation, I intend go on longer walks and shall probably see only half-a-dozen people, so no risk there. Unlike the idiots in a gym on the Channel Four News tonight with more brawn than brain, shown sweating away close to each other. A few minutes later, the programme showed "Ten out of Ten" Trump doing his preening-frog act at a press conference with five or six people shoulder-to-shoulder behind him. Dunno who they were and what they were doing. Likewise earlier this week there was Jeremy Hunt and his Health and Social Care Committee sitting closely together, with a group of experts and their acolytes seated even more closely in front of them pontificating about the virus.
Some older people say they would rather risk contracting the virus than staying, say, in a small flat for four months or more, with quality-of-life operations postponed, boredom and lack of exercise and fresh air
I sympathise, I really really do. There's no pleasant choice, only utterly horrific ones. Two to four weeks from now, the number of hospitalisations will depend exponentially on the number of infections that are happening now. If we have controlled infections enough now, the NHS might cope. If not, the number of people requiring hospital treatment could be astronomically higher than what the NHS can cope with. Doctors, nurses, receptionists will be deciding who lives and who dies. And it's not just those with COVID-19 -- people with what are usually easily treatable problems will be dying because there is nobody and no equipment to treat them.
As for food deliveries, it seems inevitable that Government will have to coordinate them. I'm amazed it hasn't been mentioned. The supermarkets' delivery infrastructure will be orders of magnitude away from coping. I just hope "the community" will do enough to help those isolated. The supermarkets should refuse deliveries to anyone under 70, and cancel all such booked delivery slots. I've just been on the phone to my sister telling her to cancel the 3 Tesco delivery slots she was delighted to have snapped up today.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Mar 18, 2020 22:22:36 GMT
People in this country are not taking the measures seriously. Not even close. Not by a mile. [..] Anyone could see this coming. The Government needs to be infinitely more aggressive in its measures. Once it realised it had to isolate over-70's, that should have happened immediately, not next week, not even tomorrow. And the lock-down that's been gradually coming tippy-toe step by step should have been total and immediate.
I agree with everything you said in your post, but there is going to be a problem. Along with some (but not all) other countries when stricter lockdowns come, the message here will be that its fine to go out for exercise, to the park etc providing you are 2m away from people not in your household. Keeping the nation fit across months of shutdowns is going to be important. That sounds sensible to me, yet Spain doesn't allow even that. The sole exception being if you have a dog with you, and then again that must be on your own. Yet, apparently, one can go for a nice stroll in Lombardy unhindered ..??
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Post by moonraker on Mar 18, 2020 22:36:57 GMT
I sympathise, I really really do. There's no pleasant choice, only utterly horrific ones. Two to four weeks from now, the number of hospitalisations will depend exponentially on the number of infections that are happening now. If we have controlled infections enough now, the NHS might cope. If not, the number of people requiring hospital treatment could be astronomically higher than what the NHS can cope with. Doctors, nurses, receptionists will be deciding who lives and who dies. And it's not just those with COVID-19 -- people with what are usually easily treatable problems will be dying because there is nobody and no equipment to treat them.
As for food deliveries, it seems inevitable that Government will have to coordinate them. I'm amazed it hasn't been mentioned. The supermarkets' delivery infrastructure will be orders of magnitude away from coping. I just hope "the community" will do enough to help those isolated. The supermarkets should refuse deliveries to anyone under 70, and cancel all such booked delivery slots. I've just been on the phone to my sister telling her to cancel the 3 Tesco delivery slots she was delighted to have snapped up today.
I'm OK. There are lots of people far worse off than me. Curiously, for someone who suffers from anxiety I am relaxed and getting satisfaction from responding to challenges. (One friend of mine, not yet 40, is almost suicidal after 15  months, leaving her even before the present situation with bills she can't pay and hardly any income.)
Yes, doctors, nurses and receptionists will be deciding who lives and who dies, but there will be fewer of them as they succumb to the virus and burn-out. Not only do they have to deal with patients themselves butwith their relatives angry and distressed that so little can be done.
As for deliveries (and voluntary support for those affected and at risk), there must be many workers displaced from their normal employment who could step in and help.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Mar 18, 2020 22:58:30 GMT
The military is being tee'd up (not scary - sensible).
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Post by mrclondon on Mar 18, 2020 23:06:26 GMT
A tip - if you are not currently a member of your local library might be worth going in and signing up (will normally need proof you live or work in the county). I've just received an email from mine implying libraries may have to close. Many library memberships include virtual libraries via tablet/phone apps, and free access to national media publications (newspapers, magazines incl New Scientist etc) bypassing paywalls.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 18, 2020 23:11:41 GMT
The military is being tee'd up (not scary - sensible). you need enough people on every street to enforce the lockdown. not looking forward to "show me your papers"
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Mar 18, 2020 23:15:00 GMT
The military is being tee'd up (not scary - sensible). you need enough people on every street to enforce the lockdown. not looking forward to "show me your papers" No argument. But the "lockdown" has to be porous enough to allow people to get to the shops no? If not, how is that addressed?
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About 20 bottles of Normandy cider, good amount of beer (also kept for visitors), wide selection of spirits. I don't expect any visitors within next few months and I'm the only alcohol drinker in the household. So I think I'll be ok 
) to figure out exactly how long what I have would last. The good news is longer than I guessed, though it might get a bit boring towards the end. For now I think I can continue to shop late evening for fruit/veg/milk and not worry too much about replacing meat. I'm assuming that in due course supply & demand should stabilise.
. Absolute 
months, leaving her even before the present situation with bills she can't pay and hardly any income.)