Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 19, 2020 16:19:36 GMT
Went back to Sainsburys this afternoon, it was relatively quiet, but it looked as if it had been looted, no meat, no milk, no eggs, no flour, no butter, no potatoes, no onions and very limited fresh fruit and vegetables. They did have fresh from the bakery still warm hot cross buns on offer though!
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Mar 19, 2020 16:21:24 GMT
And you are missing one big thing. Ventilators and hospitals to be frank aren't really the issue. Staffing is the issue. The. Staff. Are. All. Sick. Or. Self-isolating.
I will happily volunteer to stand around and keep an eye on a room full of patients on ventilators, provided someone properly medically trained sticks the tube in and is reasonably nearby if something goes wrong.
A bit naive, maybe, but my point is that in a crisis we don't necessarily have to have people with years of training to do routine tasks. I'm not advocating doing anything invasive, but I bet there's a lot of "admin" that could be taken off doctors' and nurses' hands.
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Mar 19, 2020 16:41:29 GMT
Germany has 25,000 ventilators and 25,000 ICU beds. France has 5,000 and I think we are similar. Clearly we need more. www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-europe-germany.htmlAlso, I do agree any private involvement should be paid for although I do think the private providers need to be careful not to be seen to be profiteering. However, other than staff (who largely obtain their status and permission to work from the state sector) I'd be surprised if they have many ICU beds. I have several times had someone in our family who has made use of private provision. The private "hospitals" I've been to our more like 5 star hotels geared up for low risk procedures. Some don't even have blood banks on site and there have been several cases of patients being transferred to NHS hospitals after something goes wrong. At those hospitals, typically the big shot surgeon and his consultant anaesthetist work through their list in the morning or afternoon and after that, they leave site and in my experience the entire hospital is then left to a junior doctor to manage. Going private for child birth is similarly not without risk. As I discovered when looking around there are very few private NICU units and I was not able to find a single "level 4" unit which is needed for very premature babies. Such level4s are not that uncommon in the NHS - most big hospitals have that. So to cut a long story short, even if you are fortunate enough to the have the funds in place or insurance, going private isn't always the best option (particularly outside London) and overall I'd be very surprised if there is much private ICU provision. |
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aju
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Post by aju on Mar 19, 2020 17:10:14 GMT
Germany has 25,000 ventilators and 25,000 ICU beds. France has 5,000 and I think we are similar. Clearly we need more. www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-europe-germany.htmlAlso, I do agree any private involvement should be paid for although I do think the private providers need to be careful not to be seen to be profiteering. However, other than staff (who largely obtain their status and permission to work from the state sector) I'd be surprised if they have many ICU beds. I have several times had someone in our family who has made use of private provision. The private "hospitals" I've been to our more like 5 star hotels geared up for low risk procedures. Some don't even have blood banks on site and there have been several cases of patients being transferred to NHS hospitals after something goes wrong. At those hospitals, typically the big shot surgeon and his consultant anaesthetist work through their list in the morning or afternoon and after that, they leave site and in my experience the entire hospital is then left to a junior doctor to manage. Going private for child birth is similarly not without risk. As I discovered when looking around there are very few private NICU units and I was not able to find a single "level 4" unit which is needed for very premature babies. Such level4s are not that uncommon in the NHS - most big hospitals have that. So to cut a long story short, even if you are fortunate enough to the have the funds in place or insurance, going private isn't always the best option (particularly outside London) and overall I'd be very surprised if there is much private ICU provision. Aren't the consultants in the NHS also working in the private sector too, Mrs Aju seems to think that was the case when she was PA to one in one of the biggest university teaching hospitals in the East of england before we both retired to a more sedentary life in the west of england.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 19, 2020 17:20:49 GMT
These being the same experts that have only just this week recognised the need to manufacture extra ventilators and are desperately scrabbling around for anyone to make them? The same experts who haven't even managed to organise basic protective gear for our health workers who we'll be relying on to save our lives? The experts who assured us just before the disease reached these shores that the UK was "well prepared" to meet this thing head on? All lies. Why should we listen? I posted several pages back that it seemed odd that we weren't building emergency wards of acute beds that China found necessary to save its people. It was obvious to a blind man that the NHS wasn't coping with the 'normal' demands prior to the virus, yet we are supposed to believe these 'balanced judgements' that all was well? All the signs were there and glaringly obvious, but our experts just sat on their hands. I recognise I'm conflating experts with politicians here, but one group does advise the other. My faith in the lot of them is being sorely tested. You are conflating the two! And you are missing one big thing. Ventilators and hospitals to be frank aren't really the issue. Staffing is the issue. The. Staff. Are. All. Sick. Or. Self-isolating. Without adequate PPE, nobody could blame them.
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 19, 2020 17:22:07 GMT
Italy has confirmed another 427 deaths in the past 24 hours, raising the toll to 3,405 - and therefore overtaking China, where the virus originated.
Well we'd better start hoping that we aren't "two weeks" behind Italy/Spain or similar.
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 19, 2020 17:29:39 GMT
On another note. I went to pick up a prescription that was sent electronically to my default pharmacy, which happens to be Lloyds inside the local Sainsburys (also interestingly, the surgery wasn't allowing me to pick it up from them, which is smart). I'm an idiot for not thinking of changing that to somewhere else. A couple of points:
a) The cure for the pharmacy was about 20 people long, give or take. All standing way too close to each other: the irony of doing this when waiting to pick up your medication for your probable "underlying health condition" was not lost on more. Nor the risk of doing so, hence I have come back without the intended.
b) they did however have some toilet roll (albeit not much). I took the precaution of picking up a single packet of 9.
Now I'm a bit flummoxed about how I'm going to get my prescription.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 19, 2020 17:32:22 GMT
A worse aspect is not only have Italy overtaken China in absolute deaths today, their numbers dying each day (now up at 475 and still climbing) are THREE times higher than China's very worst day (150).
And yes, when I checked earlier today, we are still running two to three weeks behind Italy's trajectory.
What I don't understand is how places like Australia, Malaysia, & Singapore, who all had this months before us, still only have a handful of deaths. It's as if the European & US strain is an order of magnitude more virulent/deadly than the Chinese strain. Or maybe it's just the summer climate keeping it suppressed out there.
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benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
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Post by benaj on Mar 19, 2020 17:34:41 GMT
On another note. I went to pick up a prescription that was sent electronically to my default pharmacy, which happens to be Lloyds inside the local Sainsburys (also interestingly, the surgery wasn't allowing me to pick it up from them, which is smart). I'm an idiot for not thinking of changing that to somewhere else. A couple of points: a) The cure for the pharmacy was about 20 people long, give or take. All standing way too close to each other: the irony of doing this when waiting to pick up your medication for your probable "underlying health condition" was not lost on more. Nor the risk of doing so, hence I have come back without the intended. b) they did however have some toilet roll (albeit not much). I took the precaution of picking up a single packet of 9. Now I'm a bit flummoxed about how I'm going to get my prescription. My local pharmacy has implemented restricted policies: 1. maximum of 2 customers in a shop at any time. 2. limited items per customer
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 19, 2020 17:42:10 GMT
On another note. I went to pick up a prescription that was sent electronically to my default pharmacy, which happens to be Lloyds inside the local Sainsburys (also interestingly, the surgery wasn't allowing me to pick it up from them, which is smart). I'm an idiot for not thinking of changing that to somewhere else. A couple of points: a) The cure for the pharmacy was about 20 people long, give or take. All standing way too close to each other: the irony of doing this when waiting to pick up your medication for your probable "underlying health condition" was not lost on more. Nor the risk of doing so, hence I have come back without the intended. b) they did however have some toilet roll (albeit not much). I took the precaution of picking up a single packet of 9. Now I'm a bit flummoxed about how I'm going to get my prescription. My local pharmacy has implemented restricted policies: 1. maximum of 2 customers in a shop at any time. 2. limited items per customer My pharmacy said they were overwhelmed with electronic prescriptions, although they did mine over the counter in 10 minutes. I guess everyone is making sure they have plenty of their repeat prescriptions to tide them over any house arrest.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Mar 19, 2020 17:45:09 GMT
My local pharmacy has implemented restricted policies:
1. maximum of 2 customers in a shop at any time.2. limited items per customer So instead of forming a queue inside the shop they queue outside in the rain?
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 19, 2020 17:50:06 GMT
Italy has confirmed another 427 deaths in the past 24 hours, raising the toll to 3,405 - and therefore overtaking China, where the virus originated. Well we'd better start hoping that we aren't "two weeks" behind Italy/Spain or similar. No reason to worry, China is weeks ahead of Italy and they're not showing the same mortality rate.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Mar 19, 2020 17:59:03 GMT
A worse aspect is not only have Italy overtaken China in absolute deaths today, their numbers dying each day (now up at 475 and still climbing) are THREE times higher than China's very worst day (150). And yes, when I checked earlier today, we are still running two to three weeks behind Italy's trajectory. What I don't understand is how places like Australia, Malaysia, & Singapore, who all had this months before us, still only have a handful of deaths. It's as if the European & US strain is an order of magnitude more virulent/deadly than the Chinese strain. Or maybe it's just the summer climate keeping it suppressed out there. stringent checking on entry I would hazard a guess. And from today apparently (virtually) NO Non-Aussies will be allowed in? They do NOT muck around at home.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 19, 2020 18:01:41 GMT
Went back to Sainsburys this afternoon, it was relatively quiet, but it looked as if it had been looted, no meat, no milk, no eggs, no flour, no butter, no potatoes, no onions and very limited fresh fruit and vegetables. They did have fresh from the bakery still warm hot cross buns on offer though! So cruel. Mrs Dolt & I are on a "low day" today (the 5:2 diet). 
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Mar 19, 2020 18:04:00 GMT
Germany has 25,000 ventilators and 25,000 ICU beds. France has 5,000 and I think we are similar. Clearly we need more. www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-europe-germany.htmlAlso, I do agree any private involvement should be paid for although I do think the private providers need to be careful not to be seen to be profiteering. However, other than staff (who largely obtain their status and permission to work from the state sector) I'd be surprised if they have many ICU beds. I have several times had someone in our family who has made use of private provision. The private "hospitals" I've been to our more like 5 star hotels geared up for low risk procedures. Some don't even have blood banks on site and there have been several cases of patients being transferred to NHS hospitals after something goes wrong. At those hospitals, typically the big shot surgeon and his consultant anaesthetist work through their list in the morning or afternoon and after that, they leave site and in my experience the entire hospital is then left to a junior doctor to manage. Going private for child birth is similarly not without risk. As I discovered when looking around there are very few private NICU units and I was not able to find a single "level 4" unit which is needed for very premature babies. Such level4s are not that uncommon in the NHS - most big hospitals have that. So to cut a long story short, even if you are fortunate enough to the have the funds in place or insurance, going private isn't always the best option (particularly outside London) and overall I'd be very surprised if there is much private ICU provision. Mrs Aju seems to think that was the case when she was PA to one in one of the biggest university teaching hospitals in the East of england before we both retired to a more sedentary life in the west of england. Correct. Many (most?) work in both Sectors and "oscillate" between the two.
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