sundown
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Post by sundown on Feb 4, 2020 11:42:29 GMT
I’m very concerned that many assets are going to be undersold and not reach their true market value.
Do we have the right to know what efforts are being made to market each asset? Are there any minimum marketing criteria that have to be met?
Do you feel that loans you hold are being properly marketed? If you do an internet search for them can you find them easily? It seems common sense that properties should be on Rightmove, and reputable auctions should at least ensure that assets are well marketed.
Are the administrators now getting accurate valuations [if indeed they can be accurate] or just settling for the lowest easy sale option? In cases where these valuations are substantially below the original valuations are they going to take action against the valuers?
And if we feel that assets are undersold what actions can we take?
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Post by brightspark on Feb 4, 2020 12:06:32 GMT
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pip
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Post by pip on Feb 4, 2020 13:13:07 GMT
I think people are overstating what the administrators duties are here. They are simply to wind up the company in the interest of creditors in a timely manner as they see fit in accordance with the legislation. This almost always involves the administrators fire selling everything. They will not undertake lengthy marketing activities or complete or enhance assets to realise the best price. Maybe people should have made themselves aware of this before rushing in for lenders to be signed up to be treated as creditors.
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Feb 4, 2020 13:44:03 GMT
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11025
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Post by 11025 on Feb 4, 2020 16:18:33 GMT
Under the Insolvency Act, 1986, an administrator has specific duties and responsibilities to creditors, and in the first instance will take control of the company with a view to business rescue.
They have a duty to act in the best interests of creditors as a whole, and will attempt to realise the highest returns for all groups if rescue is not possible. If this also fails, they must attempt to achieve a better result for creditors than if the company had been liquidated.
An administrator adopts diverse roles and responsibilities during a formal insolvency procedure, as an officer of the court and an impartial agent/manager of the company, and has a duty to act with integrity and good faith.
Apparently !
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Feb 4, 2020 16:55:23 GMT
the directors of FS,LY COLL also had the same obligations plus many more under the FCA authorised and regulated banner. i dont think it means much.
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pip
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Post by pip on Feb 4, 2020 17:13:51 GMT
Please don't selectively copy sections out of context. FS will not continue as a going concern and the remit of the administrator is clearly not this. It is therefore as your link states: An administrator has a duty to perform his functions: - As quickly and efficiently as is reasonably practicable (paragraph 4, Schedule B1). - With regard to the interests of the creditors as a whole. I know it may seem depressing and odd that the administrator is flogging everything off in a quick manner but that is the reality. Remember that their hourly rate is in the multiple hundreds, so any long drawn out sales process will not benefit creditors anyway.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Feb 4, 2020 17:24:15 GMT
" i dont think it means much."As we all know rocky1, it means Football Association.
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Post by defaultinator5000 on Feb 5, 2020 10:49:46 GMT
I think people are overstating what the administrators duties are here. They are simply to wind up the company in the interest of creditors in a timely manner as they see fit in accordance with the legislation. This almost always involves the administrators fire selling everything. They will not undertake lengthy marketing activities or complete or enhance assets to realise the best price. Maybe people should have made themselves aware of this before rushing in for lenders to be signed up to be treated as creditors. You keep banging on about investors being treated as creditors, even though it was pointed out to you several times by people involved in FSAG that this was only for the purposes of representation on the creditor's committee. Even on that committee, 4/5 members are treated as investors if my memory serves me right. You made plenty of insightful posts in the pasts, so it would be sad to see you go down the dark path of some other forum members (hints: <1% diversification, 16+% pa return).
With the rest of it I agree. The administrators need to wind the company down within a year, and 3 months have gone already. There are around 400 outstanding loans on FS, so it is not realistic to expect the administrators have the time or the will to put a huge amount of effort into each one of them. They will sell what they can as quickly as they can, and probably write off the rest.
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pfffill
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Post by pfffill on Feb 5, 2020 12:15:38 GMT
"With the rest of it I agree. The administrators need to wind the company down within a year, and 3 months have gone already. There are around 400 outstanding loans on FS, so it is not realistic to expect the administrators have the time or the will to put a huge amount of effort into each one of them. They will sell what they can as quickly as they can, and probably write off the rest."
Yes; reviewing my portfolio (if such a bag of old nails can be so called) today, I note that, in more than three months, I have had only four updates since admin, out of forty-nine loans. At this rate I will be pushing up weeds before our esteemed Administrators are done.
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pip
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Post by pip on Feb 5, 2020 13:27:08 GMT
I think people are overstating what the administrators duties are here. They are simply to wind up the company in the interest of creditors in a timely manner as they see fit in accordance with the legislation. This almost always involves the administrators fire selling everything. They will not undertake lengthy marketing activities or complete or enhance assets to realise the best price. Maybe people should have made themselves aware of this before rushing in for lenders to be signed up to be treated as creditors. You keep banging on about investors being treated as creditors, even though it was pointed out to you several times by people involved in FSAG that this was only for the purposes of representation on the creditor's committee. Even on that committee, 4/5 members are treated as investors if my memory serves me right. You made plenty of insightful posts in the pasts, so it would be sad to see you go down the dark path of some other forum members (hints: <1% diversification, 16+% pa return).
With the rest of it I agree. The administrators need to wind the company down within a year, and 3 months have gone already. There are around 400 outstanding loans on FS, so it is not realistic to expect the administrators have the time or the will to put a huge amount of effort into each one of them. They will sell what they can as quickly as they can, and probably write off the rest.
defaultinator - that is a very unkind comparison you make I have taken the time to go back through all of the administrators documents and to check what the administrators actually said: - You are right in as far as the administrator is seeking legal advice to establish what the position of investors is and may need to apply to a court to enforce this. - However in addition to investors agreeing to be treated like creditors for the purposes of representation at the creditors committee, investors have also agreed that the Administrators can take their remuneration from all proceeds, both to investors and creditors and both from company funds and those held in trusts. I do still however think I was correct here. If, as it sounds as if it is, trusts did not have investors as their beneficiaries, then under administration law what right would investors have to the proceeds of these loans apart from as unsecured creditors? I am not a QC in this area but I suspect the answer is actually legally quite simple, they are unsecured creditors. This is all established by company law, see uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/9-518-5211?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&bhcp=1 for the order of creditors in the UK. There is not, and a court cannot introduce, a special 'investor' class of creditor. Truth is any secured creditors will get paid out in full before unsecured creditors receive a penny. I am happy to be quiet on this subject and wait for the QC to deliver their advice, but as I see it there is no other potential outcome. This is why I wanted to put pressure on the FCA to say, hey wait a second the road we are going down here will lead to pledges made by Directors of a FCA regulated company about investor assets being safeguarded being totally ignored. The route will inevitably lead to preferred creditors getting paid in full out of assets which should have been ringfenced for investors. The FCA would then have been under immense pressure to put in place a mechanism to run down the loanbook rather than investors being left in the unenviable position of Administrators saying accept this or we will have to resign.
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aj
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Post by aj on Feb 5, 2020 13:33:34 GMT
A year deadline is not realistic. Before they can wind up, they will need to allow all loans in receivership to finish (Some of which will take much longer than a year). Some loans are not yet overdue so there are possibly still more to come! I expect the administration timescale to last to at least 2022. However, there is no real obstruction I can see to making initial payouts of money held on account. (Not that I have any yet)
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arby
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Post by arby on Feb 5, 2020 14:23:23 GMT
A year deadline is not realistic. Before they can wind up, they will need to allow all loans in receivership to finish (Some of which will take much longer than a year). Some loans are not yet overdue so there are possibly still more to come! I expect the administration timescale to last to at least 2022. However, there is no real obstruction I can see to making initial payouts of money held on account. (Not that I have any yet) The obstruction is the worry the administrators may have of having sufficient funds to pay for their services through to 2022 (as you predict) given the loans paying up now are likely the ones easiest to liquidate/refinance
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pip
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Post by pip on Feb 5, 2020 14:42:02 GMT
A year deadline is not realistic. Before they can wind up, they will need to allow all loans in receivership to finish (Some of which will take much longer than a year). Some loans are not yet overdue so there are possibly still more to come! I expect the administration timescale to last to at least 2022. However, there is no real obstruction I can see to making initial payouts of money held on account. (Not that I have any yet) The obstruction is the worry the administrators may have of having sufficient funds to pay for their services through to 2022 (as you predict) given the loans paying up now are likely the ones easiest to liquidate/refinance There is another risk actually. Preferred creditors may claim that they have a legal entitlement to be paid out in full before investors. If the beneficiaries of the trust legally are the company or previous directors rather than investors (as it seems), then under the rules of administration administrators have to follow a set order when paying out creditors. As per my previous post the status of investors is subject to legal review, but if investors are legally (as I suspect they are) just unsecured creditors, then administrators will be legally required to pay out creditors higher up the chain in full before investors get any payments. Administrators will not pay out investors anything until they are clear on this as otherwise they could be subject to legal challenge.
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Post by brightspark on Feb 5, 2020 16:20:01 GMT
In the great scheme of things are not investors creditors to the businesses to which money was lent and not to Lendy. Lendy t&cs prevented investors from approaching borrowers directly for repayment i.e. lenders had to recoup their investments via the intermediary Lendy. However once Lendy went into Administration those t & cs become null and void. What is to stop investors individually or as a group or groups taking legal actions against the borrowers as creditors for return of the money? I am not sure of the practicalities but those with large sums at risk might prefer a diy route and others could piggy back along.
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