mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 17, 2015 12:56:27 GMT
I only have the problem with WT loans. As mikes1531 said it does seem to be a coincidence that people are reporting problems with WT loans only. sl75 does your holding in the GEIA of these problem loans look significant. For example is loan #77 in your GEIA exactly £1.21, or £1.21 short of 20% of your total? bigfoot12: Sorry, but I did not suggest it was a coincidence. I asked whether it was a coincidence and whether anyone had experienced a similar problem with a non-WT loan. Since nobody seems to have reported a problem with a non-WT loan, I now believe it is not a coincidence. The GEIA probably is the source of this issue. My MLIA holding of NLWT (#90) remains £3.21 above my target, and there's no evidence that the surplus is being offered for sale. In fact, since there have been no NLWT units for sale for a few days, so that any units offered would be expected to sell immediately, I think we can say that my surplus NLWT definitely is not for sale. Furthermore, I have now checked AC's convenient report of my GEIA holdings (thanks, sl75! ) trawled through my GEIA statement and find that my holding of NLWT there is exactly £3.21. Is that a coincidence? Rather unlikely!
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tonyr
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Post by tonyr on Jan 17, 2015 16:24:57 GMT
I don't see the 20% as an absolute guarantee at all times, particularly when reducing your balance. If someone were to invest £100 in the GEIA right now, it "should" purchase £20 of each of the 3 loans with units available for immediate investment, and then leave the other £40 available for purchasing any units of other loans that become available. ... Thanks sl75 for your long explanation, I can see how it works now.
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Post by westcountryfunder on Jan 17, 2015 18:14:10 GMT
Surely this discussion is academic. Barring aliens landing on earth and cat sleeping with dogs, the account is going to return 7%. Well there have been several posts since you said this, but I reckon you're about right. On 26 Nov 2014 I opened a separate account for my GEIA investments and have put in a five-figure sum, with all interest and repayments to be reinvested. My spreadsheet actually shows a yield of 7.7%pa, including accrued interest, and this is calculated from the day I sent various amounts, not the day AC invested them. In fact although investments in loans were somewhat haphazard at first I now find they are invested invariably on the day AC receives my funds, so no longer any delays as far as I am concerned. Yes, there are numerous in-and-out transactions the point of which is not obvious, but so what? Essentially this is a rolling 3-year account used for funds which I do not expect to be available to me unless I choose to cancel automatic reinvestment. If I do so then I know it will take three years for all funds plus interest to be returned. Now what I would like is a similar fixed account, that is a 3-year bond, with periodic interest like now but all principal repaid at maturity. I eagerly await AC developing this. Just hoping!
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 17, 2015 21:08:37 GMT
My spreadsheet actually shows a yield of 7.7%pa, including accrued interest... Aside from rounding effects, or AC forgetting to make the appropriate subtractions for the Provision Fund, I can't work out how the result actually could turn out to be more than 7.23% (being 7% p.a. paid monthly and compounded for a year). Does anyone else have any ideas? PS. Is there any chance that AC's accrued interest calculations are based on the nominal rate for the loan rather than 7%?
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dave
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Post by dave on Jan 18, 2015 11:34:32 GMT
ref wind turbines - Is anyone seeing parts of loan 83 for sale? I have had 13.91 in left MLIA with a target of 0 since late November (when 86.09 was auto sold) but I cannot see this loan on the list with parts for sale.
best regards Dave
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unmadem
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Post by unmadem on Jan 18, 2015 11:44:41 GMT
ref wind turbines - Is anyone seeing parts of loan 83 for sale? I have had 13.91 in left MLIA with a target of 0 since late November (when 86.09 was auto sold) but I cannot see this loan on the list with parts for sale. best regards Dave no units of 83 showing as available.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jan 18, 2015 12:57:17 GMT
ref wind turbines - Is anyone seeing parts of loan 83 for sale? I have had 13.91 in left MLIA with a target of 0 since late November (when 86.09 was auto sold) but I cannot see this loan on the list with parts for sale. best regards Dave I'm short of my target by about £50 on #83, there's nothing up for sale that I can see. Do you have the loan "enabled"? There's a piccy HERE
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dave
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Post by dave on Jan 18, 2015 14:02:21 GMT
ref wind turbines - Is anyone seeing parts of loan 83 for sale? I have had 13.91 in left MLIA with a target of 0 since late November (when 86.09 was auto sold) but I cannot see this loan on the list with parts for sale. best regards Dave I'm short of my target by about £50 on #83, there's nothing up for sale that I can see. Do you have the loan "enabled"? There's a piccy HEREThanks Ton ⓉⓞⓃ and unmademLoan is enabled I have had the following for sale for the last 4 weeks - Loan name [MLIA] B W T 13.91 [GEIA] B W T 24.31 Grand Totals: 38.22 looks like we need a Navy style fix on the WT computer - turn it off and on again best regards Dave
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unmadem
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Post by unmadem on Jan 18, 2015 15:37:58 GMT
I'm short of my target by about £50 on #83, there's nothing up for sale that I can see. Do you have the loan "enabled"? There's a piccy HEREThanks Ton ⓉⓞⓃ and unmademLoan is enabled I have had the following for sale for the last 4 weeks - Loan name [MLIA] B W T 13.91 [GEIA] B W T 24.31 Grand Totals: 38.22 looks like we need a Navy style fix on the WT computer - turn it off and on again best regards Dave I upped my target on 83 by £15 as a test to see if it picked up yours. Nothing has happened in 3 hours, maybe worth email to report formally to AC.
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dave
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Post by dave on Jan 18, 2015 16:12:32 GMT
I upped my target on 83 by £15 as a test to see if it picked up yours. Nothing has happened in 3 hours, maybe worth email to report formally to AC. I emailed Friday evening chris it looks like #90 is broken as well (88.54 MLIA + 88.54 GEIA) in both cases I had sales at of November, and no sales since best regards Dave
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Post by westcountryfunder on Jan 18, 2015 17:56:54 GMT
... 7.7% ... Interesting.. Do you have an XIRR figure that excludes accrued interest? Here's my spreadsheet. For those who are interested I have used XIRR to calculate the return including accrued interest: 8.04%pa. But I don't trust this function to produce the right answer. My method is very simple and goes back to first principles. The result is 7.76%pa as at today, or 4.39%pa excluding accrued interest. However if I have to swallow my words and someone convinces me that my method is wrong then the return is even better than I thought! My method includes an element of compounding although this is minimal bearing in mind the short time involved. I don't know about XIRR. AC_GEIA.ods (16.66 KB)
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 18, 2015 20:08:45 GMT
westcountryfunder: Thanks for sharing this with us. How are you determining your accrued interest? I can't see any AI data within my GEIA, and I haven't a clue whether my GEIA AI is included in my total AI shown because my GEIA holding is so small compared to my MLIA that any GEIA AI would get lost in the round-off. A potential source of your seemingly high return might be -- as I suggested earlier -- if the AI is calculated based on the full rates for the various loans. To determine whether that might be the case, it would be necessary to know what the AI is for a given loan and compare that to what you'd expect if it was accruing at 7%. Without a way to know how much of each loan is in your account except by trawling through your statement, this will take a bit of effort, and since there will have been purchases -- and possibly sales -- of loan parts since the last time interest was paid then adjustments for that would be required as well. One thing you could do that would be a bit easier would be to take note of your total AI on successive days, to see if it is increasing by an amount that would be consistent with the accrual you'd expect on an account of that size at 7%. With a £10k balance, I would calculate that to be £1.9178/day (being £10k x 7% / 365), but I know that AC don't calculate AI that simply. AIUI, AC calculate AI by taking the monthly interest -- £58.33 for a £10k account -- and dividing that by the number of days between subsequent payments. However, since each loan has it's own repayment date, this has to be done on a loan by loan basis, although at the moment every loan should be dividing by 31 because both December and January have 31 days. I've never been able to match AC's accrued interest calculations exactly, but I can come close enough to spot gross errors. If what we're trying to determine here is whether interest is being accrued at 7% or 9.5-10%, the difference between £1.92/day and £2.67/day should be pretty obvious. So if you can check your AI shortly before midnight and then again after about 0100 and let us know what you find, we might learn something.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jan 19, 2015 10:19:49 GMT
For those who are interested I have used XIRR to calculate the return including accrued interest: 8.04%pa. But I don't trust this function to produce the right answer. I have normally found XIRR to be very reliable. I am in slow motion this morning, but does your method use daily compounding? If so it would be similar to XIRR. (i.e. 7.7% daily compounded is close to 8.04 annual) Is the 10,069 the current value of your GEIA?
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Post by westcountryfunder on Jan 19, 2015 13:07:04 GMT
For those who are interested I have used XIRR to calculate the return including accrued interest: 8.04%pa. But I don't trust this function to produce the right answer. I have normally found XIRR to be very reliable. I am in slow motion this morning, but does your method use daily compounding? If so it would be similar to XIRR. (i.e. 7.7% daily compounded is close to 8.04 annual) Is the 10,069 the current value of your GEIA? Yes, £10069 was yesterday the total value including accrued. The accrued interest was exactly £30. My method simply calculates the number of 'pound days' that funds have been invested, totals them, then converts to 'pound years'. Then it takes the total value including accrued interest, subtracts the total sums invested, which gives the 'amount earned'. Divide the 'amount earned' by 'pound years' and express this as a percentage; this gives the yield. Compounding only arises because of interest actually paid by AC and then reinvested in loans. There is no daily compounding. As a matter of possible fascination, prior to the advent of computers and spreadsheets this method was used in the clearing bank by whom I was employed for calculating interest due on customers' overdrafts. I know because I was involved on a daily basis. It transfers very neatly to a spreadsheet, which once set up works very effectively.
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Post by westcountryfunder on Jan 19, 2015 13:08:55 GMT
westcountryfunder: Thanks for sharing this with us. How are you determining your accrued interest? I can't see any AI data within my GEIA, and I haven't a clue whether my GEIA AI is included in my total AI shown because my GEIA holding is so small compared to my MLIA that any GEIA AI would get lost in the round-off. A potential source of your seemingly high return might be -- as I suggested earlier -- if the AI is calculated based on the full rates for the various loans. To determine whether that might be the case, it would be necessary to know what the AI is for a given loan and compare that to what you'd expect if it was accruing at 7%. Without a way to know how much of each loan is in your account except by trawling through your statement, this will take a bit of effort, and since there will have been purchases -- and possibly sales -- of loan parts since the last time interest was paid then adjustments for that would be required as well. One thing you could do that would be a bit easier would be to take note of your total AI on successive days, to see if it is increasing by an amount that would be consistent with the accrual you'd expect on an account of that size at 7%. With a £10k balance, I would calculate that to be £1.9178/day (being £10k x 7% / 365), but I know that AC don't calculate AI that simply. AIUI, AC calculate AI by taking the monthly interest -- £58.33 for a £10k account -- and dividing that by the number of days between subsequent payments. However, since each loan has it's own repayment date, this has to be done on a loan by loan basis, although at the moment every loan should be dividing by 31 because both December and January have 31 days. I've never been able to match AC's accrued interest calculations exactly, but I can come close enough to spot gross errors. If what we're trying to determine here is whether interest is being accrued at 7% or 9.5-10%, the difference between £1.92/day and £2.67/day should be pretty obvious. So if you can check your AI shortly before midnight and then again after about 0100 and let us know what you find, we might learn something. Here is a screenshot which shows the accrued interest. These figures have of course changed from yesterday. Thnak you for your remaining suggestions. I shall need to put on my thinking cap. I think I can see what you are getting at! Please also see my reply to 'bigfoot12'
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