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Post by chris on Nov 17, 2014 22:46:16 GMT
As sl75 has pointed out, the statements on the individual loan pages and on the 'Your Loans' ignore the holdings within my GEIA, and therefore are incorrect, and need fixing. And I do want to be able to see a summary of the holdings in my GEIA without having to construct one myself from my GEIA transaction statement. How else can I tell how badly the diversification algorithm is failing -- as we've shown that it is? Perhaps what's needed is another tab on the Your Loans display so that people can toggle between looking at their MLIA holdings and their GEIA holdings. And with respect to the previous sentence, I see that something similar has been done on the GEIA statement, where there's a link near the top that allows me to go from there to my MLIA statement. But that's a one-way trip, I'm afraid, because there's no corresponding link on the MLIA statement that allows me to move from there to my GEIA statement.  They're excluded from the individual loan pages by design not by mistake. As covered on this thread there has been an extensive internal discussion about how much information we both should and have to show about investments and the current site reflects the choices made by the business.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Nov 17, 2014 22:46:31 GMT
Okay, I must be very dense around here but it is Monday!!!
So assume I invest say £xxx. Then the interest is payable monthly and can either be taken as income or reinvested. The fact that interest has been credited means that I am liable for tax irrespective as to whether it is reinvested or not.
If I fall into the 20% tax bracket then that nets at 5.6% or 4.2% at 40%. It would in some circumstances be preferable for the interest not to be paid monthly but at end of term or if/when the lender/investor decided to exit subject to that exit being possible.
IMO this really is for the passive investor as provided the LTV's already being offered by AC for WT's in the 'general market' are reasonably accurate then I cannot see any benefit to me as an individual.
Now if it's possible to roll this type of investment into a SIPP or something similar then it could be worth closer investigation on my part.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Nov 17, 2014 22:50:45 GMT
Now if it's possible to roll this type of investment into a SIPP or something similar then it could be worth closer investigation on my part. But then you don't get the benefit of the tax treatment of the provision fund. Or am I missing something?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 17, 2014 22:51:38 GMT
Why should potential changes have been notified 30 days ago ? Only actual changes should have been notified, surely ? The fact that they haven't means that currently there have been no Ts and Cs changes. : Was that intended to be tongue-in-cheek? We've seen two different versions of Ts&Cs posted -- one from before, and the current version. There must, therefore, have been a change, so surely we should have received notification of that. Shouldn't we? Or has an attempt at humour sailed over my head? 
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Nov 17, 2014 22:59:25 GMT
Now if it's possible to roll this type of investment into a SIPP or something similar then it could be worth closer investigation on my part. But then you don't get the benefit of the tax treatment of the provision fund. Or am I missing something? Nah, probably me as it's getting late and time for bed but all circumstances are different and ATM it's not for me. OOI, what are the tax benefits of the provision fund?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 17, 2014 23:08:17 GMT
As sl75 has pointed out, the statements on the individual loan pages and on the 'Your Loans' ignore the holdings within my GEIA, and therefore are incorrect, and need fixing. And I do want to be able to see a summary of the holdings in my GEIA without having to construct one myself from my GEIA transaction statement. How else can I tell how badly the diversification algorithm is failing -- as we've shown that it is? Perhaps what's needed is another tab on the Your Loans display so that people can toggle between looking at their MLIA holdings and their GEIA holdings. And with respect to the previous sentence, I see that something similar has been done on the GEIA statement, where there's a link near the top that allows me to go from there to my MLIA statement. But that's a one-way trip, I'm afraid, because there's no corresponding link on the MLIA statement that allows me to move from there to my GEIA statement. They're excluded from the individual loan pages by design not by mistake. As covered on this thread there has been an extensive internal discussion about how much information we both should and have to show about investments and the current site reflects the choices made by the business. : OK. I accept that this was done deliberately. But if that's the case, what's the point of the statement on the loan page? I would have expected that once alternative ways of investing had been enabled, that statement would have expanded to look something like... I would have thought that anyone investing at AC via more than one of the available channels would like to know what their total exposure to a given loan is so that they could keep that at a level they're comfortable with.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 17, 2014 23:12:03 GMT
Also it's unclear - is the 7% payable from day one? From the dashboard it's not clear if I'm getting 7% right now only on £186.24 or on the full £200.00. It's on whatever is currently invested not the full £200. There should be plenty of supply at the moment though so it shouldn't be hard to deploy your funds. ... except that the allocation algorithm as it exists now will not deploy all the funds available! 
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Post by chris on Nov 17, 2014 23:12:18 GMT
They're excluded from the individual loan pages by design not by mistake. As covered on this thread there has been an extensive internal discussion about how much information we both should and have to show about investments and the current site reflects the choices made by the business. : OK. I accept that this was done deliberately. But if that's the case, what's the point of the statement on the loan page? I would have expected that once alternative ways of investing had been enabled, that statement would have expanded to look something like... I would have thought that anyone investing at AC via more than one of the available channels would like to know what their total exposure to a given loan is so that they could keep that at a level they're comfortable with. The green account isn't the only product we'll have, and the admin team can enable or disable the breakdown of holdings on a per product basis. So as others launch that aren't provision fund protected, or as the create your own launches, then they'll appear there as you have described.
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Post by chris on Nov 17, 2014 23:15:08 GMT
It's on whatever is currently invested not the full £200. There should be plenty of supply at the moment though so it shouldn't be hard to deploy your funds. ... except that the allocation algorithm as it exists now will not deploy all the funds available! It will be tweaked tomorrow morning to resolve
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Nov 17, 2014 23:25:17 GMT
chris: OK. I accept that this was done deliberately. But if that's the case, what's the point of the statement on the loan page? I would have expected that once alternative ways of investing had been enabled, that statement would have expanded to look something like... I would have thought that anyone investing at AC via more than one of the available channels would like to know what their total exposure to a given loan is so that they could keep that at a level they're comfortable with. The green account isn't the only product we'll have, and the admin team can enable or disable the breakdown of holdings on a per product basis. So as others launch that aren't provision fund protected, or as the create your own launches, then they'll appear there as you have described. So, if I'm understanding your correctly chris, there could be 7 products, including the MLIA, and the loan page's total of your holding might, for example, include those from 4 of them and not from the other 3? That makes no sense whatsoever to me - either it's a total or it isn't - you can't make it something inbetween. Strikes me as nonsense, but like bugs4me I'm tired, so hopefully I've misunderstood what the AC business has decided about that.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 17, 2014 23:29:37 GMT
Needs an additional UI option for MLIA account, when changing the "On Repayment" action, an option for which other account to withdraw interest or repayments+interest to, so that for existing investors who prefer the GEIA, they can set it to invest repayments from MLIA to GEIA, and let the system carry on doing its thing for the next few weeks/months (or those who merely want to diversify into GEIA might set interest to be paid into it for example). I agree that there needs to be an option to transfer funds between accounts as repayments are made, it'll be added in time but there are higher priority items to work on first such as those mentioned above. : This looks an awful lot like a failure to communicate. According to the description of how the GEIA works... Reading that, ISTM that it's saying that the ability to direct repayments into "a different Investment Account" -- of which I would have thought the Manual Loan Investment Account is one because of its name -- already exists. So perhaps the description needs to be made a bit clearer?
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Post by chris on Nov 17, 2014 23:31:29 GMT
mikes1531 - yes it should be clearer. Will raise it with the content producers as that's not functionality that's ever been discussed internally, unless I'm reading it wrong. It's late and I'm going to bed now.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 17, 2014 23:35:39 GMT
The green account isn't the only product we'll have, and the admin team can enable or disable the breakdown of holdings on a per product basis. So as others launch that aren't provision fund protected, or as the create your own launches, then they'll appear there as you have described. : I'm glad to hear that the ability to display that info already is built into the system. So I guess I just don't understand why it was decided not to do that for investments within the GEIA. From your statement, it would appear that it has something to do with the PF protection. Can you explain the thinking behind the decision? No huge hurry. Tomorrow would be fine.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Nov 18, 2014 8:15:19 GMT
...The blurb I saw so far (possibly not all of it?) doesn't seem to specify who has the beneficial interest in any surplus in the provision fund... as I understand it, this creams off anything over 7.0% return, so could potentially accumulate a significant amount, which will be used to settle any shortfall (up to 5%). at RateSetter, a "surplus" will ultimately be paid to lenders (over and above the interest they already received) [although only 20% of "the surplus" in any given year] at Zopa, as I recall, any "surplus" gets managed away by offering better terms to subsequent borrowers, with the stated aim of ensuring only 110% coverage going forwards[!] ... Don't kid yourself about RS. I'm sure the fund is managed there too, in a similar way to Zopa. The terms to borrowers will be (and quite possible already are) varied with a view to keeping the fund at what management believe to be the right level. As I see it, lenders would only get their hands on any surplus in a winding up. One of the reasons for having a provision fund is tax efficiency for lenders - getting rid of unusable capital losses. The less of an interest that I have in the provision fund, the more comfortable I am that this actually works.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Nov 18, 2014 8:24:48 GMT
...Although a loss is unlikely for the green energy market there are a smaller number of large loans, so it is conceivable that a single default could swamp AC's provision fund. Also I imagine some investors will not be comfortable with the clause: "Any excess cash or other assets held above this level may be drawn to Assetz SME Capital Limited from time to time and will not be repaid to APFL."... The "single large loss" problem would worry me too, although I'm pleased to see that the fund can use credit insurance, and it may be that they are using insurance to manage this risk. More detail would be good. The ability of Assetz to claw back surpluses is fine by me and it strengthens the tax analysis.
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