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Post by dan1 on Feb 8, 2020 12:07:56 GMT
Trying to be a bit more constructive here... Understood there is an awful lot of anger here from existing lenders and that reputational damage can't be undone. However, part of the reaction is because we simply don't understand the calculation behind the interest shortfall fees. My feeling is that unless Lending Works step in and clear up some of the confusion this resentment will fester for ever more. So, how about this Matthew .... publish some worked examples that allow lenders to see how their fees are calculated? I can't fathom any regulatory reason why you couldn't publish worked examples so a failure to provide them would lead to further suspicion. |
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 8, 2020 12:17:13 GMT
would agree with others about clearing up what is happening as probably i am like a few others who have not jumped yet (my wife did) but are wavering quickly
From my point of view when i joined LW i assumed if the shield run out there would be a pooling event and the rates and returns dropped as a One off and done method (and yes i accept there would still have been moans) and a cut on the rates moving forward
But it would have been a clear cut event not something that will drag on with promises that it will stop at sometime in the future
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Ukmikk
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Post by Ukmikk on Feb 8, 2020 13:04:11 GMT
Trying to be a bit more constructive here... [ Than what? And how?
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keystone
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Post by keystone on Feb 8, 2020 15:22:27 GMT
I think the ones who have complained are the ones who have been constructive in trying to understand what has happened. LW failed to explain the consequences of the changes in December, all they said was rates would be reduced to 5.4%, I along with virtually everyone else understood this to mean going forward the rates would be 5.4%. I don't think anyone thought the cuts would be retrospectively applied to when the loans were first taken out.
No one explained the interest rate shortfall would lead to swinging charges to exit after Jan 1st.
IMHO LW were deliberately misleading in explaining the changes, they could have easily said you can exit now without charge or after Jan 1st with 5-6% charges.
When those who were complaining then started to figure out what had happened, LW disappeared from the forum and show no remorse for their failure to address all the questions and answer the queries raised.
I don't see how anyone can trust them in anything they say anymore.
Even now trying to say that the fees will reduce over time is hiding the fact that lower interest rates will be paid to existing customers so while it will appear fees have reduced it will just mean that the lower rates have been banked and moved onto lower returns in interest.
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 8, 2020 16:59:18 GMT
I think the ones who have complained are the ones who have been constructive in trying to understand what has happened. LW failed to explain the consequences of the changes in December, all they said was rates would be reduced to 5.4%, I along with virtually everyone else understood this to mean going forward the rates would be 5.4%. I don't think anyone thought the cuts would be retrospectively applied to when the loans were first taken out. No one explained the interest rate shortfall would lead to swinging charges to exit after Jan 1st. IMHO LW were deliberately misleading in explaining the changes, they could have easily said you can exit now without charge or after Jan 1st with 5-6% charges. When those who were complaining then started to figure out what had happened, LW disappeared from the forum and show no remorse for their failure to address all the questions and answer the queries raised. I don't see how anyone can trust them in anything they say anymore. Even now trying to say that the fees will reduce over time is hiding the fact that lower interest rates will be paid to existing customers so while it will appear fees have reduced it will just mean that the lower rates have been banked and moved onto lower returns in interest. But there is no guarantee the fee's will reduce over time as it would seem the provision fund is sacrosanct so rates etc could even be tweaked more going forward unless i'm wrong (but would need LW to comment) But think i know why they did not mention the 5 - 6% before the 1st of Jan 
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Feb 8, 2020 17:09:37 GMT
But there is no guarantee the fee's will reduce over time as it would seem the provision fund is sacrosanct so rates etc could even be tweaked more going forward unless i'm wrong (but would need LW to comment) It's true the shortfall interest penalty varies from time to time. I notice it went up from 4.3% to 5.4% in just one week for a quote selling my partner's loans, but with limited information available, it's difficult to understand how much change in performance result another 1.1% increase. I think the remain investor would have better confidence once the shortfall interest penalty reduce, let's hope we can see the decrease sooner rather than later, like a weekly or even daily basis.
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69m
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Post by 69m on Feb 8, 2020 17:15:27 GMT
When the going gets tough. Matthew gets going....... Hi guys I'm still here. I've kept an eye on recent threads and can understand people's frustration/confusion, though I stand by my previous comments on this subject. The transition from the old Shield model to the new one has obviously been a challenge, however the 'new normal' is significantly more robust over the long term which has to be a good thing. Those looking to exit immediately after the fee-free period are experiencing higher than normal exit costs, but this is a temporary outcome - those exit costs will reduce month on month and those investing over the medium to long term should still be achieving the stated lifetime returns. I do increasingly feel that my participation in these threads is not necessarily helpful/adding value - I'm happy to help clarify anything unclear, but I'm definitely not an extension of, or replacement for, our customer service team who are able to help you with specific or general queries or deal with complaints and will be much more responsive. Thanks I agree that you shouldn't be spending time on here answering queries that the customer services team is capable of handling. Your priority is sorting out the underlying issues which caused the Shield mess.
However, your presence on the forum can be very valuable. Just be aware that disappearing when things aren't going well doesn't look great.
I also think that care has to be taken when posting. For example, above you say that "higher than normal exit costs... is a temporary outcome" - is this a hope or an expectation? And what is "temporary"? I (and probably a few others) have recently made the wrong divestment decisions based mainly on ambiguous information from LW. More vague statements really aren't needed right now.
Indeed, I would suggest that LW sends out a communication to all lenders that clearly sets out how the current rate reduction and higher exit costs are calculated, and how long they're likely to last. Proper facts and figures, please, unlike the infamous PR-style November email.
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 8, 2020 18:38:05 GMT
while some explanations would be welcome there can be no guarantee of the word temporary moving forward as defaults could get worse unless LW know something different and can put it in writing
But the Jan update says - "the interest rates paid to investors are now variable" and also "that the shield cash balance should no longer be a key risk metric" so sounds less a promise and more a hope
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 8, 2020 18:47:19 GMT
I think the ones who have complained are the ones who have been constructive in trying to understand what has happened. LW failed to explain the consequences of the changes in December, all they said was rates would be reduced to 5.4%, I along with virtually everyone else understood this to mean going forward the rates would be 5.4%. I don't think anyone thought the cuts would be retrospectively applied to when the loans were first taken out. No one explained the interest rate shortfall would lead to swinging charges to exit after Jan 1st. IMHO LW were deliberately misleading in explaining the changes, they could have easily said you can exit now without charge or after Jan 1st with 5-6% charges. When those who were complaining then started to figure out what had happened, LW disappeared from the forum and show no remorse for their failure to address all the questions and answer the queries raised. I don't see how anyone can trust them in anything they say anymore. Even now trying to say that the fees will reduce over time is hiding the fact that lower interest rates will be paid to existing customers so while it will appear fees have reduced it will just mean that the lower rates have been banked and moved onto lower returns in interest. Indeed - it was left to us to work it all out. You either pay with an interest rate haircut front loaded and backdated, or by a withdrawal fee. I chose the latter as a matter of safety first and of principal. No regrets - except for not selling out more in Dec! Lesson learnt.
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Post by carol167 on Feb 8, 2020 19:09:19 GMT
I think the ones who have complained are the ones who have been constructive in trying to understand what has happened. LW failed to explain the consequences of the changes in December, all they said was rates would be reduced to 5.4%, I along with virtually everyone else understood this to mean going forward the rates would be 5.4%. I don't think anyone thought the cuts would be retrospectively applied to when the loans were first taken out. No one explained the interest rate shortfall would lead to swinging charges to exit after Jan 1st. IMHO LW were deliberately misleading in explaining the changes, they could have easily said you can exit now without charge or after Jan 1st with 5-6% charges. When those who were complaining then started to figure out what had happened, LW disappeared from the forum and show no remorse for their failure to address all the questions and answer the queries raised. I don't see how anyone can trust them in anything they say anymore. Even now trying to say that the fees will reduce over time is hiding the fact that lower interest rates will be paid to existing customers so while it will appear fees have reduced it will just mean that the lower rates have been banked and moved onto lower returns in interest. Indeed - it was left to us to work it all out. You either pay with an interest rate haircut front loaded and backdated, or by a withdrawal fee. I chose the latter as a matter of safety first and of principal. No regrets - except for not selling out more in Dec! Lesson learnt.
Not your fault though. A lot of us were totally duped on just how bad it would be after December. No wonder they didn't explain the detail.
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Post by frankfurt13 on Feb 8, 2020 20:02:04 GMT
Hands up; did ANYONE here think the cuts would be retrospectively taken from previous loans? I know a few people got out in December but was that based on what LW said or just on gut instinct based on the cash fund hitting 0?
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Post by carol167 on Feb 8, 2020 20:24:25 GMT
Hands up; did ANYONE here think the cuts would be retrospectively taken from previous loans? I know a few people got out in December but was that based on what LW said or just on gut instinct based on the cash fund hitting 0?
Where did it say in their November email that I'd only be getting 0.69% interest going forward - or that if you cashed out you would loose a whopping 6% which amounts to more than half my entire interest in three years on my ISA ?? Who in their right mind, would not have cashed out if that had been made clear ??
There's no way I would invest such a large sum of money in risky p-2-p investments for 0.69% return on the off chance that possibly, maybe, if the wind is in the right direction - I might get some of what they were skimming of us back later. I was left with no choice but to cash out at rip off amounts so I could sleep at night.
But it's ok... anyone new will get 5.4% straight off. How to totally screw all your loyal customers!
To say I'm angry is putting it mildly.
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 8, 2020 20:48:47 GMT
Hands up; did ANYONE here think the cuts would be retrospectively taken from previous loans? I know a few people got out in December but was that based on what LW said or just on gut instinct based on the cash fund hitting 0?
Where did it say in their November email that I'd only be getting 0.69% interest going forward - or that if you cashed out you would loose a whopping 6% which amounts to more than half my entire interest in three years on my ISA ?? Who in their right mind, would not have cashed out if that had been made clear ??
There's no way I would invest such a large sum of money in risky p-2-p investments for 0.69% return on the off chance that possibly, maybe, if the wind is in the right direction - I might get some of what they were skimming of us back later. I was left with no choice but to cash out at rip off amounts so I could sleep at night.
But it's ok... anyone new will get 5.4% straight off. How to totally screw all your loyal customers!
To say I'm angry is putting it mildly.
But are they getting 5.4% from day One or are they already in an H1 event and pre-funding the provision fund? and if not how long before they are?
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Post by carol167 on Feb 8, 2020 20:53:10 GMT
Where did it say in their November email that I'd only be getting 0.69% interest going forward - or that if you cashed out you would loose a whopping 6% which amounts to more than half my entire interest in three years on my ISA ?? Who in their right mind, would not have cashed out if that had been made clear ??
There's no way I would invest such a large sum of money in risky p-2-p investments for 0.69% return on the off chance that possibly, maybe, if the wind is in the right direction - I might get some of what they were skimming of us back later. I was left with no choice but to cash out at rip off amounts so I could sleep at night.
But it's ok... anyone new will get 5.4% straight off. How to totally screw all your loyal customers!
To say I'm angry is putting it mildly.
But are they getting 5.4% from day One or are they already in an H1 event and pre-funding the provision fund? and if not how long before they are? Assumed best guess. No way of knowing. They'd have something to say about signing up to something billed as "5.4%" all over the dashboard only to find out they're getting far less..... LW wouldn't possibly do that to their investors now would they. No wait....
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Post by befuddled on Feb 8, 2020 21:33:07 GMT
In some ways we're lucky. LW obviously crashed and hit the buffers. They're experiencing desperate times and were no doubt forced to take the actions they did.
I suppose most of us leaving now are overall in profit albeit less than expected....
Things could have been much worse
And probably will be for new investors...
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