hendragon
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Post by hendragon on Nov 17, 2014 17:07:16 GMT
Hi all, I see the new Green Energy Income Account is now live. I have some basic questions to ask: - Is this like a fund which contains investments in lots of Green companies? So basically I add £100 and that automatically gets spread across all these Green companies? - This is protected by a provision fund. Is the Manual Loan Investments Account protected by a provision fund? If it is, why would I choose to invest in something that has a 7% rate as opposed to a higher paying rate (apatr from it being more environmentally friendly) I think what Im asking is what benefits does the Green Energy Income Account have over the Manual Loan Investments Account? Thanks I think the answer to that is from an investors point of view virtualy zero, and from AC's point of view considerable. Low maintainance and probably more profitable.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Nov 17, 2014 17:10:56 GMT
MLIA is not protected by a provision fund, and also requires you to at least periodically log on and set manual targets on new investments.
GEIA shouldn't require as much maintenance by the end-user investor, and also benefits from protection by a provision fund. Whether those benefits are worth sacrificing such a chunk of potential return will be a matter for individual investor opinion of course.
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Post by chris on Nov 17, 2014 19:59:16 GMT
Hi all, I see the new Green Energy Income Account is now live. I have some basic questions to ask: - Is this like a fund which contains investments in lots of Green companies? So basically I add £100 and that automatically gets spread across all these Green companies? - This is protected by a provision fund. Is the Manual Loan Investments Account protected by a provision fund? If it is, why would I choose to invest in something that has a 7% rate as opposed to a higher paying rate (apatr from it being more environmentally friendly) I think what Im asking is what benefits does the Green Energy Income Account have over the Manual Loan Investments Account? Thanks Yes you add £100 and the system will invest across the various green loans that meet the basic criteria (first charge security, 71% or better LTV, etc.). As repayments are made and new loans become available you will automatically invest in those. Should you wish to withdraw funds then you can adjust your investment target and the system will try and sell loan units in order to release those funds, subject to there being a buyer, or will divert repayments as they occur. There are currently no fees for reducing your investment in this way. As others have said the Manual Loan Investment Account is not protected by a provision fund. You can invest manually and manage your own portfolio, choosing which loans you invest in, managing your risks, etc. and for that effort you will receive a higher return. But you also run the risk of late payments, extended recovery periods, and even capital losses - which whilst expected to be small are not going to remain zero forever - as well as having to invest your own time to do all of the above. The provision fund and Green Energy Investment Account are designed to provide protection from that but comes at a cost of giving you a lower return. You still have all the other benefits of lending, such as the asset security, but have that extra layer of the provision fund on top. There's no right or wrong approach that applies equally to all lenders and it will be up to each to find the balance that works for them. I expect most of our existing lenders to either ignore the green account or to only invest a small percentage of their portfolio. However there are many who won't have lent with us because of the risks and / or work of reading all the credit reports who will find the account attractive.
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Jase88
Hope we can talk more as a group before we go in to make our investment's on the peer platform...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jase88 on Nov 17, 2014 23:37:38 GMT
Hi all, I see the new Green Energy Income Account is now live. I have some basic questions to ask: - Is this like a fund which contains investments in lots of Green companies? So basically I add £100 and that automatically gets spread across all these Green companies? - This is protected by a provision fund. Is the Manual Loan Investments Account protected by a provision fund? If it is, why would I choose to invest in something that has a 7% rate as opposed to a higher paying rate (apatr from it being more environmentally friendly) I think what Im asking is what benefits does the Green Energy Income Account have over the Manual Loan Investments Account? Thanks I think the answer to that is from an investors point of view virtualy zero, and from AC's point of view considerable. Low maintainance and probably more profitable. My guess is that with the New Energy Platform means your £'s is spread over many loans instead of just hoping 1 or 2 separate loans in renewable energy loans works out which as AC explained in the forum that it is harder to value a wind turbine So lower percentage's rate with the new platform means you are better covered with different borrower's or coperated company's.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Nov 18, 2014 9:04:00 GMT
@dllive, I agree with the posts by sl75 and chris, to which I would add: Most individual lenders cannot use capital losses, but are taxed in full on interest received. Hence it is more tax-efficient to lend where there is a provision fund to absorb the losses, especially if you are a higher rate taxpayer, see here: p2pindependentforum.com/post/29457/thread. The provision fund is not guaranteed to cover losses and there is a risk that it may not, especially if a large loan defaults or there is an event (such as a retrospective reduction in FITs, which I think is extremely unlikely) which causes widespread defaults across the sector. The provision fund is permitted to use credit insurance, which might allow it to mitigate these risks, but AC does not (at present) disclose what, if any, insurance is held. I have nothing against provision funds in principle, and I have significant amounts invested in RS. However, without more information on insurance I will be steering clear of this account for now.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Nov 18, 2014 9:51:43 GMT
@dllive, I agree with the posts by sl75 and chris, to which I would add: Most individual lenders cannot use capital losses, but are taxed in full on interest received. Hence it is more tax-efficient to lend where there is a provision fund to absorb the losses, especially if you are a higher rate taxpayer, see here: p2pindependentforum.com/post/29457/thread. The provision fund is not guaranteed to cover losses and there is a risk that it may not, especially if a large loan defaults or there is an event (such as a retrospective reduction in FITs, which I think is extremely unlikely) which causes widespread defaults across the sector. The provision fund is permitted to use credit insurance, which might allow it to mitigate these risks, but AC does not (at present) disclose what, if any, insurance is held. I have nothing against provision funds in principle, and I have significant amounts invested in RS. However, without more information on insurance I will be steering clear of this account for now. A further observation which I am sure you have taken into account is the difference between the return in the main market for windmills, etc. which has been running at slightly above 9% and the GEIA with some protection at 7%. This to my mind implies a 2% surcharge is being applied for what amounts to a partial protection insurance. My concern is the form this protection takes as it seems AC have caveated what protection is in fact provided. So like you not for me. I prefer to cover my own risks I am afraid even though I am a higher rate tax payer.
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Post by geoffrey on Nov 20, 2014 14:31:22 GMT
I think the 7% is rather explicitly targeted at the kind of investor who is comfortable investing in RateSetter, with its proven Provision Fund, but sees AC as a step too far down the road of risk. Such investors can get at most 5.9% currently on RS (and only with constant reinvestment), so the AC fund is an attractive proposition, albeit slightly riskier simply because the AC Provision Fund is new and has a small amount of seed money in it (in absolute terms). For three-year investors on RS, the AC fund looks extremely attractive rate-wise.
I shall certainly be considering this for funds I am giving to my daughter, a non-taxpayer (but over 18). These funds need a very high level of safety but need to beat the rate of interest being charged by the Student Loan Company for the annual £9K fee (full interest of RPI + 3% is charged for the first four years, while she is studying). A substantial part of the accrued funds I have given her so far are currently in RS, but for this specific purpose, the AC fund looks attractive (and of course the funds need to remain diversified, so I will not seek to disinvest from RS, merely divert funds that would otherwise have gone there). In fact I'm only waiting for the algorithm that shares out the investments within the fund to be corrected, as I understand it is currently not correctly observing the 20% of total investment limit for any one borrower. In the meantime I'm suggesting to my daughter that she open an AC account.
Before anyone asks why she doesn't simply make repayments to the SLC with funds as I send them to her... Because we have no idea when, after graduation, she will commence employment or begin to earn above the threshold for interest to accrue (only RPI is charged from graduation until that point). Or whether it will be better to use accrued funds towards a house deposit. My crystal ball is broken, unfortunately.
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bigfoot12
Member of DD Central
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Post by bigfoot12 on Nov 20, 2014 20:08:36 GMT
I think the 7% is rather explicitly targeted at the kind of investor who is comfortable investing in RateSetter, with its proven Provision Fund, but sees AC as a step too far down the road of risk.
I agree with you, but also it might be aimed at the lendinvest market. I just received an email today offering their latest product at 7%. (It always seems to be 7%). I haven't joined as the minimum turned out to be too high for me but I think that is without any sort of provision fund. The Green fund looks favourable.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 20, 2014 20:57:36 GMT
Has anyone come across any adverts for the GEIA?
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Nov 20, 2014 21:04:58 GMT
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Nov 20, 2014 23:09:40 GMT
Just did a search for the exact phrase "GREEN ENERGY INCOME ACCOUNT" Google says, About 77 results (0.58 seconds)
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 21, 2014 20:43:25 GMT
I put a bit into the GEIA
sadly the dashboard says I have invested X and the export xls says Y the xls is correct, the dashboard is about £26 quid short. (I have emailed support)
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dave
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Post by dave on Nov 21, 2014 22:24:44 GMT
Just tried the .xls from my GEIA report, and my figures match the screen exactly I have had 50 quid awaiting investment all day, but I think I saw a messgae from Chris saying he was working on a fix ...
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ching
New Member
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Post by ching on Mar 15, 2015 15:52:29 GMT
Hi folks,
This post popped-up when I searched Google for the Assetz Green Energy Income product. I'm keen to sound out experienced p2p investors about this product. By way of comparison, I looked at some of the investment opportunities on Abundance Generation and Trillion Fund (e5 Energy) which offer returns in the same region. Here are my notes:
Assetz
Earn straightaway - no waiting for drawdown. First charge security and provision fund Diversification - though not clear how diverse.
E5 Energy (Trillion Fund)
Earn from next month "Secured against existing assets" - looks like first charge.
Abundance
Debentures - lower liquidity than say, Assetz aftermarket? Debentures - less likely to recover funds if company fails?
Am I missing any other obvious differences?
Thanks.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Mar 15, 2015 19:39:11 GMT
Hi folks, This post popped-up when I searched Google for the Assetz Green Energy Income product. I'm keen to sound out experienced p2p investors about this product. By way of comparison, I looked at some of the investment opportunities on Abundance Generation and Trillion Fund (e5 Energy) which offer returns in the same region. Here are my notes: Assetz Earn straightaway - no waiting for drawdown. First charge security and provision fund Diversification - though not clear how diverse. E5 Energy (Trillion Fund) Earn from next month "Secured against existing assets" - looks like first charge. Abundance Debentures - lower liquidity than say, Assetz aftermarket? Debentures - less likely to recover funds if company fails? Am I missing any other obvious differences? Thanks. Early days for Assetz GEIA and initial experience of diversification and liquidity was not good, this is likely to improve over time. Abundance currently has an active secondary market sometimes with surprising premiums, I'm not sure why a debenture would be less likely to recover funds than security related to a specified object.
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