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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 19, 2020 18:35:45 GMT
Personally I think the phrase "economically inactive", as commonly understood, is economically illiterate. Ms Patels definition "Economically inactive people are: not employed - they do not have a job. not unemployed - they have not looked for a job in the past four weeks and/or are not available for work in the next two weeks." So stay at home mum's... Its total rubbish and simple smokescreen/window dressing.
It has supposedly been tory policy for quite some time to "make work pay" and to encourage people off benefits etc. Cue Universal Credit. So to buy this tosh about backfilling low skilled jobs by tapping into the economically inactive, you have to also assume that the prior near 10 years of govt policy have singularly failed in one of its core objectives. And that those not previously encouraged to come join the low paid labour market by the govt measures to encourage them, will somehow be brought back by the simple fact that others who were prepared to do those jobs have ***** off.
This of course when we have also have an unemployment rate (yes I know that isn't what is being referred to) which traditionally is seen as equivalent to virtual full employment, and must be close to an historic low.
If the govt. actually believed this it would show them up to be economically illiterate as RM has said. But I doubt they do or are. Its simply a fig leaf to attempt to cover up one of the primary drivers for support for Brexit by the current govt, and for what they believe the newly won over "red wall" want to hear: namely less foreign people, and less people "taking the jobs" that weren't and won't actually be filled by anyone else.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 19, 2020 18:41:31 GMT
There is absolutely a case for increasing productivity in the UK, and this may help in that regard. But it doesn't change the fact that "economically inactive" as a phrase is a load of old tosh.
Even a 16 year old on benefits, with no qualifications, who spends twenty hours a day playing Pokemon is economically active - they live somewhere, they consume something. That's economic activity right there. Christ, even prisoners are "economically active".
She should say what she actually means rather than invent a meaningless phrase to make herself sound clever. And that, as bracknellboy mentions above, might be thought of as a fig leaf for other concerns.
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Post by moonraker on Feb 19, 2020 19:10:37 GMT
When I heard one of Priti Patel's interviews, I smiled wryly - and laughed aloud when she said that 20% of available working age people were inactive and could be encouraged into work. Already the care sector - one that is particularly unhappy with the looming situation - has ten of thousands of unfilled vacancies.
Here in the Thames Valley most parts have long enjoyed prosperity and "full employment". It's a long time since the region's labour market was my "specialist subject", but in the 1980s and 1990s the local unemployment rate was around 2%. (Some economists then reckoned that "full employment" was 97%.) The feeling was that one-third of the unemployed were briefly between jobs and would find work easily; a third needed help and encouragement; and a third were unemployable.
But some "experts" reckon 40% of jobs could be lost to AI and wonder what will happen to those thrown out of work.
It's going to be interesting to see what combined effect these two contrasting factors will have - and how and if people who lose their jobs will adapt to other forms of employment.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Feb 19, 2020 19:25:57 GMT
For residency status here are the scores to put forward if you want a No. 10 advisor job. 20 points for speaking the Queen’s English Minus 30 points if you are from Liverpool or Newcastle Minus 200 from Scotland and Wales (we don’t even understand ourselves) And the Northern Irish might as well give up now
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 19, 2020 19:49:00 GMT
For residency status here are the scores to put forward if you want a No. 10 advisor job. 20 points for speaking the Queen’s English Minus 30 points if you are from Liverpool or Newcastle Minus 200 from Scotland and Wales (we don’t even understand ourselves) And the Northern Irish might as well give up now Don't be a vile arse on Twitter should probably come first.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Feb 19, 2020 20:16:47 GMT
Thats the end of polytunnel culture . No more tasteless strawberries and agribusiness.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 19, 2020 20:19:51 GMT
Thats the end of polytunnel culture . No more tasteless strawberries and agribusiness. And the consequences of that are....?
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lara
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Post by lara on Feb 19, 2020 20:25:56 GMT
Thats the end of polytunnel culture . No more tasteless strawberries and agribusiness. And the consequences of that are....? Scurvy?
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Post by mrclondon on Feb 19, 2020 20:47:40 GMT
Thats the end of polytunnel culture . No more tasteless strawberries and agribusiness. And the consequences of that are....? Probably increased automation where that is practical, and certainly an increased drive to study inefficeincies / bottlenecks. I didn't spend much time in the Food & Beverage sector, and the core reason was with the easy availabilty of low wage staff there is little incentive to innovate on technical solutions or improved processes.
But (and topical with global supply chain issues centre stage at present), the argument goes that we really shouldn't be doing any activity in the UK which requires a high volume of people which can be done in a lower wage country. We should be focussing the people we have on high value add whereever possible. Which is fine until the global supply chains grind to a halt.
I know full well that this is impossible in many/most cases, social care being the best example. But I'll never forget seeing the costs of organising a week long residental "brainwashing session" for a few dozen managers (myself included), it would have been half the price to have held it in a number of Mediterranean countries rather than in the UK but it was felt to be politically impossible from an image point of view to ship us out to somewhere warm for a week in January (this was in the late '90's but I doubt much has changed since). From a process point of view, ths leads to the question as to whether it may be more efficient to provide social care in another country paid for by the UK for those who wish to volunteer for such a change in their later years. Difficult questions, no easy answers.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 19, 2020 21:13:32 GMT
And the consequences of that are....? Probably increased automation where that is practical, and certainly an increased drive to study inefficeincies / bottlenecks. I didn't spend much time in the Food & Beverage sector, and the core reason was with the easy availabilty of low wage staff there is little incentive to innovate on technical solutions or improved processes.
But (and topical with global supply chain issues centre stage at present), the argument goes that we really shouldn't be doing any activity in the UK which requires a high volume of people which can be done in a lower wage country. We should be focussing the people we have on high value add whereever possible. Which is fine until the global supply chains grind to a halt.
I know full well that this is impossible in many/most cases, social care being the best example. But I'll never forget seeing the costs of organising a week long residental "brainwashing session" for a few dozen managers (myself included), it would have been half the price to have held it in a number of Mediterranean countries rather than in the UK but it was felt to be politically impossible from an image point of view to ship us out to somewhere warm for a week in January (this was in the late '90's but I doubt much has changed since). From a process point of view, ths leads to the question as to whether it may be more efficient to provide social care in another country paid for by the UK for those who wish to volunteer for such a change in their later years. Difficult questions, no easy answers.
Re "strawberries". I don't doubt for a second that the agricultural industry will benefit from automation and technology over the long term, whether from drone monitoring, better use of pesticides / fertillisers, better weather forecasting or, indeed, robot pickers etc. But in the short term, with no trade deal in sight, I very much doubt the wisdom of investing significant amounts of capital in what is, when compared with other industries, relatively low value add (~0.6% of GDP in 2018). Particularly given the uncertainties around our major export market. So we'll either go without, or prices will rocket (which, for most people, will amount to going without), or we'll import them. Oh, wait a minute... And I completely I agree with you that we should be focusing on high value activity, but that necessitates being able to meet low value add requirements. Which means imports. Oh, wait a minute... Or getting our decrepit off balance sheet exporting our old and infirm. I don't even know where to start. EDIT: I found one - octinion.com/products/agricultural-robotics/rubion. No price mentioned .
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Feb 19, 2020 21:41:24 GMT
Re "strawberries". I don't doubt for a second that the agricultural industry will benefit from automation and technology over the long term, whether from drone monitoring, better use of pesticides / fertillisers, better weather forecasting or, indeed, robot pickers etc. But in the short term, with no trade deal in sight, I very much doubt the wisdom of investing significant amounts of capital in what is, when compared with other industries, relatively low value add (~0.6% of GDP in 2018). Particularly given the uncertainties around our major export market. So we'll either go without, or prices will rocket (which, for most people, will amount to going without), or we'll import them. Oh, wait a minute... And I completely I agree with you that we should be focusing on high value activity, but that necessitates being able to meet low value add requirements. Which means imports. Oh, wait a minute... Or getting our decrepit off balance sheet exporting our old and infirm. I don't even know where to start. EDIT: I found one - octinion.com/products/agricultural-robotics/rubion. No price mentioned . I work in the construction industry and we occassionally get involved in reinstating large grassed areas. The tractor that has the seeding attachment on the back comes fitted with GPS to ensure that they don't miss any bits, and that they don't go over the same area twice.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 19, 2020 21:50:00 GMT
Re "strawberries". I don't doubt for a second that the agricultural industry will benefit from automation and technology over the long term, whether from drone monitoring, better use of pesticides / fertillisers, better weather forecasting or, indeed, robot pickers etc. But in the short term, with no trade deal in sight, I very much doubt the wisdom of investing significant amounts of capital in what is, when compared with other industries, relatively low value add (~0.6% of GDP in 2018). Particularly given the uncertainties around our major export market. So we'll either go without, or prices will rocket (which, for most people, will amount to going without), or we'll import them. Oh, wait a minute... And I completely I agree with you that we should be focusing on high value activity, but that necessitates being able to meet low value add requirements. Which means imports. Oh, wait a minute... Or getting our decrepit off balance sheet exporting our old and infirm. I don't even know where to start. EDIT: I found one - octinion.com/products/agricultural-robotics/rubion. No price mentioned . I work in the construction industry and we occassionally get involved in reinstating large grassed areas. The tractor that has the seeding attachment on the back comes fitted with GPS to ensure that they don't miss any bits, and that they don't go over the same area twice. I'm all for technology, and all for improving the UK's productivity. So I applaud the investment in whatever's fitted to that tractor. Does it still have a driver?
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Post by captainconfident on Feb 19, 2020 22:57:22 GMT
You are all discussing this as if it's a practical matter. But this is a political matter - Global Britain is being squared with the Insular Britain that the Tories perceive as the wish of their new voters. It's a matter of theatre, and in short order an endless string of exceptions and special visa groups will be created to fill the inevitable gaps in the labour market that will be the initial result.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 19, 2020 23:04:31 GMT
Meanwhile we should (according to mrc) offshore our oldest, nearest and dearest to... Tunisia I guess? Maybe Morocco? Seeing as the EU will be off limits.
EDIT: I wonder how that will go down with the run of the mill Tory voter?
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Post by mrclondon on Feb 19, 2020 23:33:47 GMT
You are all discussing this as if it's a practical matter. But this is a political matter .... Yep, and in reality I suspect that a temporary low skilled worker visa scheme will be a "concession" to be tabled during the trade negotiations with the EU in the coming months.
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