macq
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Post by macq on Apr 29, 2020 13:56:23 GMT
Any suggestions for managed funds similar to Fundsmith, please? Why do you want a managed fund? Research gas consistently shown that almost all of them underperform their indexes. Stick with an index tracker like VWRL ETF or vanguard life strategy fund. And yet i would say nearly all the IT's i have held for over 15 - 25 years and due to the choices offered by my pension company active OEIC funds have beaten the passive funds i hold in a cheap ISA (within the same markets) over any annualised time frame - But still keeping fingers crossed
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Post by carol167 on Apr 29, 2020 14:03:52 GMT
So I've bitten the bullet and have started to pour money into VWRL.
My strategy with shares until now (for the past 5 years) has been to buy LS40 & LS60 plus Vanguards Retirement 2030 in my ISA - all accumulators. All well and good for when my pensions start to pay out in 10 years time and I switch to drawdown.
P-2-P has been filling the gap for generating income and supplementing eating into my cash reserves. I managed to FIRE in 2012 and have had some side gigs in the interim, supplementing p2p income. So far expenditure has not exceeded income and so my capital "pot" has continued to grow in varying degrees.
Along with seemingly a lot of others, I have been withdrawing from P-2-P on many platforms in the last couple of years (just RS & AC left with any significant amounts) and in wondering what to do with this now excess cash capital lump earning pittance in savings accounts, I have decided to opt for VWRL and probably VIGBLB to create a slowly changing balance between equity and bonds to generate income during the next 10 years in my non ISA share account.
So I guess, yes, for me it is time to dump p2p and buy equities. Too many platforms failing or winding up or running into difficulties and changing the rules from under you. Trust is everything and I no longer have much trust left. Even with RS which I had decided to keep (prior to the virus hitting) I think I'd rather take my changes with shares from now on but keep wavering between sell, keep, sell, keep. I liked the idea of splitting everything between cash/p2p/shares rather than eggs heavily in one basket or another, but sadly p2p, for me, has run it's course now.
So ISA shares for the long term - don't touch, save the allowance each year into and forget about and now my ordinary share account with VWRL & VIGBLB, stuffing a large amount into soonish and then dribbling in as and when. There if I need it and hopefully generating varying amounts of income quarterly.
Very similar position to you, Carol (FIRE'd in 2015). It has been mostly quite a fun and profitable rollercoster, but unfortunately P2P seems to have run its course for the moment at least. When a recession is on and equities look cheap, they're a good buy. With P2P, when a recession is on, all liquidity dries up and the platform's very existence is at risk. Not a great attribute. Not to mention all of the various debacles, shams, frauds etc we've gone through even without recessions. I wouldn't rule out a limited return to the survivors of this crisis though, if any major platforms survive (a not insubstantial 'if' in my book!). I now have a very un-diverse portfolio of tracker shares and cash, with cash of course increasingly dropping in yield by the day. A major survivor (or perhaps a merger?) could be very interesting as a small diversifier. edit: re: dividends, it's a controversial topic. My view is to disregard them and look at total return. My first proper share purchase was Vanguard UK equity income, which has demonstrated admirably that 4% dividends are bloody useless when your capital values are falling in the long term alongside it. Well, that was my experience anyway. Sticking to VWRL too, with maybe a soupcon of IWDG (global currency hedged) and VFEM (emerging markets) now and again to keep things interesting. I do miss the fun. Managing all the accounts, Fastest Finger First etc... and yes, if RS come out of this ok, I might look to go back in. RS has been, by far, the single most profitable account for me, possibly why I am so reluctant to leave - if I can.
As for shares, I've seen how well my LS funds and to a lesser extent the Retirement 2030 fund have done in just 5 years and how steadying the bond mixes I've got have proven with the current crisis, so I'm more than happy to apply the same principles with additional index funds. Got to do something with the cash. Not as if I can even go on a 6 month round the world cruise with it. I'm not a spendy person (except for camera equipment perhaps :-) though I would like to travel more in the future - if anyone can ever travel again... that'll use up some of it.
[Asside to your edit : I tried a tiny percentage (top of my risk pyramid) in Vanguards Emerging Markets for a couple of years. All it did was make a loss, so I cut and ran when I saw how much better (and far less volatile) the other index funds were doing. ]
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Post by carol167 on Apr 29, 2020 14:06:56 GMT
Giggles.
Perhaps more impressive might be the ages we were at the time. I was an old 48 (in 2012).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 14:10:05 GMT
Only 50.
I'm pretty happy with 11% a year. I spent 6 months on level 2 and fast fingers, a waste of 6 months.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Apr 29, 2020 14:18:35 GMT
Very similar position to you, Carol (FIRE'd in 2015). It has been mostly quite a fun and profitable rollercoster, but unfortunately P2P seems to have run its course for the moment at least. When a recession is on and equities look cheap, they're a good buy. With P2P, when a recession is on, all liquidity dries up and the platform's very existence is at risk. Not a great attribute. Not to mention all of the various debacles, shams, frauds etc we've gone through even without recessions. I wouldn't rule out a limited return to the survivors of this crisis though, if any major platforms survive (a not insubstantial 'if' in my book!). I now have a very un-diverse portfolio of tracker shares and cash, with cash of course increasingly dropping in yield by the day. A major survivor (or perhaps a merger?) could be very interesting as a small diversifier. edit: re: dividends, it's a controversial topic. My view is to disregard them and look at total return. My first proper share purchase was Vanguard UK equity income, which has demonstrated admirably that 4% dividends are bloody useless when your capital values are falling in the long term alongside it. Well, that was my experience anyway. Sticking to VWRL too, with maybe a soupcon of IWDG (global currency hedged) and VFEM (emerging markets) now and again to keep things interesting. I do miss the fun. Managing all the accounts, Fastest Finger First etc... and yes, if RS come out of this ok, I might look to go back in. RS has been, by far, the single most profitable account for me, possibly why I am so reluctant to leave - if I can.
As for shares, I've seen how well my LS funds and to a lesser extent the Retirement 2030 fund have done in just 5 years and how steadying the bond mixes I've got have proven with the current crisis, so I'm more than happy to apply the same principles with additional index funds. Got to do something with the cash. Not as if I can even go on a 6 month round the world cruise with it. I'm not a spendy person (except for camera equipment perhaps :-) though I would like to travel more in the future - if anyone can ever travel again... that'll use up some of it.
[Asside to your edit : I tried a tiny percentage (top of my risk pyramid) in Vanguards Emerging Markets for a couple of years. All it did was make a loss, so I cut and ran when I saw how much better (and far less volatile) the other index funds were doing. ]
How do you manage to keep on top of total return, all (both) the plaforms I use just tell me share price, and leave it to me to figure dividends
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Post by carol167 on Apr 29, 2020 14:24:33 GMT
I do miss the fun. Managing all the accounts, Fastest Finger First etc... and yes, if RS come out of this ok, I might look to go back in. RS has been, by far, the single most profitable account for me, possibly why I am so reluctant to leave - if I can.
As for shares, I've seen how well my LS funds and to a lesser extent the Retirement 2030 fund have done in just 5 years and how steadying the bond mixes I've got have proven with the current crisis, so I'm more than happy to apply the same principles with additional index funds. Got to do something with the cash. Not as if I can even go on a 6 month round the world cruise with it. I'm not a spendy person (except for camera equipment perhaps :-) though I would like to travel more in the future - if anyone can ever travel again... that'll use up some of it.
[Asside to your edit : I tried a tiny percentage (top of my risk pyramid) in Vanguards Emerging Markets for a couple of years. All it did was make a loss, so I cut and ran when I saw how much better (and far less volatile) the other index funds were doing. ]
How do you manage to keep on top of total return, all (both) the plaforms I use just tell me share price, and leave it to me to figure dividends I don't for the Acc funds I have. I just get total return and share price. I'm not sure I'm understanding your question. When I used to have a few individual companies long ago - long story, long gone and never again - the dividends were clearly identified. Presumably for an Inc fund, dividends would be clearly identified in the same way as with individual company holdings.
[Edit : I'm with share.com who is looking like being absorbed into II at some point).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 14:28:59 GMT
I still buy individual shares but I learnt that I was terrible at timing, then I spoke to other traders and found out that they were also terrible, so I analysed the successes and the failures and found that occasionally you can time things perfectly and it is pretty obvious, maybe once every 6 months. So I now mainly invest in shares and funds where timing is less important.
Like Carol, probably, I just weigh the bag of money at the end of the year.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Apr 29, 2020 14:36:31 GMT
I do miss the fun. Managing all the accounts, Fastest Finger First etc... and yes, if RS come out of this ok, I might look to go back in. RS has been, by far, the single most profitable account for me, possibly why I am so reluctant to leave - if I can.
As for shares, I've seen how well my LS funds and to a lesser extent the Retirement 2030 fund have done in just 5 years and how steadying the bond mixes I've got have proven with the current crisis, so I'm more than happy to apply the same principles with additional index funds. Got to do something with the cash. Not as if I can even go on a 6 month round the world cruise with it. I'm not a spendy person (except for camera equipment perhaps :-) though I would like to travel more in the future - if anyone can ever travel again... that'll use up some of it.
[Asside to your edit : I tried a tiny percentage (top of my risk pyramid) in Vanguards Emerging Markets for a couple of years. All it did was make a loss, so I cut and ran when I saw how much better (and far less volatile) the other index funds were doing. ]
Yes, it has to be said VFEM continues to become increasingly 'good value' without seeming to ever actually win. I will persist for now. My FIRE age is lower than either of you by some way, but my FIRE I am fairly sure is but a few wisps of smoke compared to your roaring furnaces in reality. I just live off the embers, robots don't need food.
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Post by carol167 on Apr 29, 2020 14:46:41 GMT
I still buy individual shares but I learnt that I was terrible at timing, then I spoke to other traders and found out that they were also terrible, so I analysed the successes and the failures and found that occasionally you can time things perfectly and it is pretty obvious, maybe once every 6 months. So I now mainly invest in shares and funds where timing is less important.
Like Carol, probably, I just weigh the bag of money at the end of the year.
One thing I do do though at year end - is take account of the % increase or decrease on the Vanguard bar charts for the last 12 months to see how well the fund has done (or not) for the whole year. Because I tend to pound cost average into the index funds I find it impossible to work out how well they've done as a %. I can only seem to find this out at year end since they are a rolling 12 month display. Sort of Brigadoon'ish. :-)
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Apr 29, 2020 14:56:07 GMT
Wow, lots of FIREs here! I’m 42 this year and targeting FIRE 48 - 55. I could go now but with two kids under 6 I’m aiming for “fat” FIRE.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Apr 29, 2020 15:03:51 GMT
How do you manage to keep on top of total return, all (both) the plaforms I use just tell me share price, and leave it to me to figure dividends I don't for the Acc funds I have. I just get total return and share price. I'm not sure I'm understanding your question. When I used to have a few individual companies long ago - long story, long gone and never again - the dividends were clearly identified. Presumably for an Inc fund, dividends would be clearly identified in the same way as with individual company holdings.
[Edit : I'm with share.com who is looking like being absorbed into II at some point).
One one page. price when purchased, price now, %change since purchase, if you're lucky annual rate
On another page dividends listed in date order Much spreadsheeting to be done (I thought shareview shareSIGHT sorry was going to be the answer, but they don't yet cover half my portfolio)
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Post by carol167 on Apr 29, 2020 15:17:40 GMT
I don't for the Acc funds I have. I just get total return and share price. I'm not sure I'm understanding your question. When I used to have a few individual companies long ago - long story, long gone and never again - the dividends were clearly identified. Presumably for an Inc fund, dividends would be clearly identified in the same way as with individual company holdings.
[Edit : I'm with share.com who is looking like being absorbed into II at some point).
One one page. price when purchased, price now, %change since purchase, if you're lucky annual rate
On another page dividends listed in date order Much spreadsheeting to be done (I thought shareview shareSIGHT sorry was going to be the answer, but they don't yet cover half my portfolio)
I couldn't survive without excel.
I have two fairly complex files (one for shares and one for everything else), both with multiple sheets feeding though to a summary page.
But one thing I like to do is have a spreadsheet field for each fund that is the current share price and a list of all my buys for that fund, so instantly I when I update the current price Ican see the difference between bought and now. (which I do when I get bored and want to "play" finances). It passes the time :-) But that way I can see at a glance total gain and hence profit summary across all funds.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 15:30:47 GMT
I just have a sheet that shows each bag of money and update as the mood takes me, say quarterly. Then a second spreadsheet with multiple pages which monitors every asset against its targets and control limits. (Process Engineer), I then just let every asset evolve, those that stay in the limits I keep, those that leave I let Darwin take care of them. Not really interested in paper profits, I just manage the process and let the paper and real profits come. Only exception is black swans.
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qwakuk
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Post by qwakuk on Apr 29, 2020 15:49:52 GMT
Microsoft Money is now free and useful to record such information.
Share price feed was turned off a few years ago BUT there is a bit of software which you can use to feed in share / fund prices automatically. It is written by the guy who used to work on the software for Microsoft many moons ago.
My datafile is 90mb in size and covers over 20 years of data.
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Post by Ace on Apr 29, 2020 16:15:48 GMT
I reached FIRE 5 years ago at the age of 52, though I didn't realise it at the time as I'd never heard of FIRE. I just thought I was saving so that I could retire early and do more of the things I enjoy.
I would have reached it much earlier if it wasn't for a large financial mistake. It was due to an expensive 8 year partnership that involved strife and was later terminated with a decree nisi!
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