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Post by Ace on Dec 15, 2022 18:55:40 GMT
Couldn't this advice be applied to every P2P platform. Not sure why you have singled out LandlordInvest?
I think it does apply to all P2P SMs. I find it ironic that most platforms do not allow loans to be sold at a premium on the basis that their fair value is likely to be par value at most. Applying this rational, the true fair value of most loans are significantly below par given the increase in rates and making an at par limit even more arbitrary. The reality is that most retail investors are over valuing the intrinsic value of loans due to retail demand exceeding supply for most higher rate/risk loans and as a result the loans would usually trade at a premium or otherwise get snapped up on SMs that limit resale at par. I've never seen that reason given. I think the reason is that lenders don't usually have sufficient information partway through a loan to be able to accurately determine the fair value.
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a0010402
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Post by a0010402 on Dec 16, 2022 0:11:54 GMT
Yes, to the extent the practice would be commonplace on other platforms there would be no need to single out LandlordInvest. I've mentioned LLI because it's the one where I've most noticed it and where I've most participated.
Another SM where I've participated a lot is Relendex. Actually Relendex is kind of weird, because I'm not sure if the ones doing the buying and selling are investors, or if it's the platform staff themselves who buy and sell and mix and match on behalf of investors in order to keep investing their 'assured' products for the selected product terms. I think it might be both, only in which proportion I do not know. As well as I do not know the intention of the said platform operators, i.e., are they also selling near mature loans and exchanging parts for fresh ones? In which case I ought to single out Relendex as well.
Where I say singling out I mean, be critical of. That is a difficult one. An investing career is meant to be so that as an investor grows and develops, he becomes more sophisticated and is able to deploy techniques that more junior investors do not know or do not feel ready for. As I grow myself, I get to notice that, and at first it upsets me and I criticize. I guess the next step would be to ask, why not do it myself. And one step beyond that, why not do it myself and pretend I'm not doing it and even appear to be candid, so that other investors more junior than me will continue to be deluded. Then I could sell near mature loans to them and they'd even thank me for that. Which brings into question, can an investor who teaches others ever be truly candid? As it would make sense for him to appear to be candid and be seen to be 'helpful' on those techniques and strategies that he's already mastered and the ones he's about to let go of, or are well known so there's no point in hiding them, while the ones he's ahead of the pack in or be about to tackle next he does it in secret, or with a special degree of reserve, and he's not candid at all - in what would be his next winning strategy and the way to once more position himself ahead of the pack. But when I say investor, I might as well mean a manager in any organization - be seen to be popular, candid and be helpful, while if you know what's good for you what you'll be doing instead is to do that which will let you jump to the front yourself and get ahead and take the lead. And I can't see how we could criticize that and expect it to 'level' - it will never level. Because the smarter ones will just keep getting smarter -hopefully for them- and others who didn't get to be smart enough will stay behind, maybe even drop out. That's just the way competition works. While my point to near-mature loan buyers, be of LLI or Relendex's is: "Buy if you want, but make sure you're helping yourself doing that - there is no need to be helping the seller. Indeed in most cases, you should see the seller as your competitor (that who has understood that for that product at that particular time it is better to sell and not to buy) and do not see the seller as your mate or as someone neutral or indeed your benefactor - and by this I mean the one who brings about the opportunity to perform that operation you had in mind and get your fill - for he is not, and he is doing in the market today exactly the opposite of you. Maybe the day a seller for what you're about to buy turns up is not going to be your lucky day."
But I digress. Long story short, I'll be out of the LLI SM because I think it's not healthy for me. And I'll try and make a better assessment of the Relendex SM and if I can't determine it to be more favourable I'll be out of that one as well. And that'll be all, as I take part in no others or very rarely so. Then I'll have to find some other topic of reflexion + hopefully some learning points and some further practice.
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Post by overthehill on Dec 16, 2022 9:45:42 GMT
Yes, to the extent the practice would be commonplace on other platforms there would be no need to single out LandlordInvest. I've mentioned LLI because it's the one where I've most noticed it and where I've most participated. Another SM where I've participated a lot is Relendex. Actually Relendex is kind of weird, because I'm not sure if the ones doing the buying and selling are investors, or if it's the platform staff themselves who buy and sell and mix and match on behalf of investors in order to keep investing their 'assured' products for the selected product terms. I think it might be both, only in which proportion I do not know. As well as I do not know the intention of the said platform operators, i.e., are they also selling near mature loans and exchanging parts for fresh ones? In which case I ought to single out Relendex as well. Where I say singling out I mean, be critical of. That is a difficult one. An investing career is meant to be so that as an investor grows and develops, he becomes more sophisticated and is able to deploy techniques that more junior investors do not know or do not feel ready for. As I grow myself, I get to notice that, and at first it upsets me and I criticize. I guess the next step would be to ask, why not do it myself. And one step beyond that, why not do it myself and pretend I'm not doing it and even appear to be candid, so that other investors more junior than me will continue to be deluded. Then I could sell near mature loans to them and they'd even thank me for that. Which brings into question, can an investor who teaches others ever be truly candid? As it would make sense for him to appear to be candid and be seen to be 'helpful' on those techniques and strategies that he's already mastered and the ones he's about to let go of, or are well known so there's no point in hiding them, while the ones he's ahead of the pack in or be about to tackle next he does it in secret, or with a special degree of reserve, and he's not candid at all - in what would be his next winning strategy and the way to once more position himself ahead of the pack. But when I say investor, I might as well mean a manager in any organization - be seen to be popular, candid and be helpful, while if you know what's good for you what you'll be doing instead is to do that which will let you jump to the front yourself and get ahead and take the lead. And I can't see how we could criticize that and expect it to 'level' - it will never level. Because the smarter ones will just keep getting smarter -hopefully for them- and others who didn't get to be smart enough will stay behind, maybe even drop out. That's just the way competition works. While my point to near-mature loan buyers, be of LLI or Relendex's is: "Buy if you want, but make sure you're helping yourself doing that - there is no need to be helping the seller. Indeed in most cases, you should see the seller as your competitor (that who has understood that for that product at that particular time it is better to sell and not to buy) and do not see the seller as your mate or as someone neutral or indeed your benefactor - and by this I mean the one who brings about the opportunity to perform that operation you had in mind and get your fill - for he is not, and he is doing in the market today exactly the opposite of you. Maybe the day a seller for what you're about to buy turns up is not going to be your lucky day." But I digress. Long story short, I'll be out of the LLI SM because I think it's not healthy for me. And I'll try and make a better assessment of the Relendex SM and if I can't determine it to be more favourable I'll be out of that one as well. And that'll be all, as I take part in no others or very rarely so. Then I'll have to find some other topic of reflexion + hopefully some learning points and some further practice.
"He lived the last days of his long life quietly and simply". Who said that ?
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a0010402
Member of DD Central
Posts: 111
Likes: 64
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Post by a0010402 on Dec 19, 2022 14:58:28 GMT
Getting investments deployed on LandlordInvest is way too hard. You have to be in it to bid at 11am, a time where many people are at work and can't be doing that, or by the time you come in the loans are gone. Add to that that, if you have some objection about using the secondary market as a buyer like I have, you can't be doing that and still be consistent with yourself. I've come to the conclusion I'm afraid that LLI is not suitable for unskilled or barely skilled investors - or moderately skilled investors who value their time. Other platforms are much easier to invest in. I'm currently in six and they're the hardest. I'm in it for platform diversification, and because if it wasn't because it's hard, I don't have a reason to dislike them, and even I think I'd rather trust them, but at some point I have to ask, what is the point? If it's gonna take me more time to invest £1k here than £10k elsewhere, such as in any of the other five, why persist? I still haven't taken the decision to leave LLI, but trust me, I think I might be nearly about to.
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Post by overthehill on Dec 19, 2022 15:09:48 GMT
Getting investments deployed on LandlordInvest is way too hard. You have to be in it to bid at 11am, a time where many people are at work and can't be doing that, or by the time you come in the loans are gone. Add to that that, if you have some objection about using the secondary market as a buyer like I have, you can't be doing that and still be consistent with yourself. I've come to the conclusion I'm afraid that LLI is not suitable for unskilled or barely skilled investors - or moderately skilled investors who value their time. Other platforms are much easier to invest in. I'm currently in six and they're the hardest. I'm in it for platform diversification, and because if it wasn't because it's hard, I don't have a reason to dislike them, and even I think I'd rather trust them, but at some point I have to ask, what is the point? If it's gonna take me more time to invest £1k here than £10k elsewhere, such as in any of the other five, why persist? I still haven't taken the decision to leave LLI, but trust me, I think I might be nearly about to.
Landlordinvest's new loan volumes and amounts have been historically low but I've never found any difficulty investing. Their 24 hour limit usually leaves plenty of time to invest. Certainly no worse than crowdproperty loans going live at 10am. Diversification is important especially given LLI hasn't had any capital or interest losses so far. Alternatively, Assetzcapital was very easy to invest in until a few days ago.
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Post by Ace on Dec 19, 2022 15:38:06 GMT
Getting investments deployed on LandlordInvest is way too hard. You have to be in it to bid at 11am, a time where many people are at work and can't be doing that, or by the time you come in the loans are gone. Add to that that, if you have some objection about using the secondary market as a buyer like I have, you can't be doing that and still be consistent with yourself. I've come to the conclusion I'm afraid that LLI is not suitable for unskilled or barely skilled investors - or moderately skilled investors who value their time. Other platforms are much easier to invest in. I'm currently in six and they're the hardest. I'm in it for platform diversification, and because if it wasn't because it's hard, I don't have a reason to dislike them, and even I think I'd rather trust them, but at some point I have to ask, what is the point? If it's gonna take me more time to invest £1k here than £10k elsewhere, such as in any of the other five, why persist? I still haven't taken the decision to leave LLI, but trust me, I think I might be nearly about to.
Landlordinvest's new loan volumes and amounts have been historically low but I've never found any difficulty investing. Their 24 hour limit usually leaves plenty of time to invest. Certainly no worse than crowdproperty loans going live at 10am. Diversification is important especially given LLI hasn't had any capital or interest losses so far. Alternatively, Assetzcapital was very easy to invest in until a few days ago.
Investing in AssetzCapital is easy, there are a large number of their shares on offer via Seedrs at up to a 32% discount Apologies for flippancy, couldn't resist.
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a0010402
Member of DD Central
Posts: 111
Likes: 64
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Post by a0010402 on Dec 19, 2022 15:41:29 GMT
I concur, but I could never come after only a few minutes - even seconds - of a loan being open for bidding on LLI and still find a slice available. The 24h limit as far as I'm concerned seems to be only theoretical. CrowdProperty is indeed one of my other five, and has become my second largest holding quite easily in comparison - indeed it'd be the first if I had allowed it to. I don't know why I'm having such a hard time getting my bids filled with LLI, as I don't hear anyone else complaining. I'm not having much of a quiet and simple life myself at the moment probably. Stopping the struggle to get my cash invested at LLI would help, but then I'd start worrying about events such as at AssetzCapital like you say, and whether I'm playing the safest hand possible while ensuring I still get on average a return in excess of 7% or whereabouts (6.5% being my line in the sand). There's no easy answer. I just wish governments hadn't been so "generous" money printing back in 2020, and complacent with interest rates for a long time later. Then I'd more relaxed with my interest rate demands and I'd even settle for Loanpad being my largest holding, as once was the plan. But who can afford that in these times? I mean, inflation erosion compounds, year after year, and much faster than LP would like us to believe that reinvesting profits compounds, because each yearly hit is more massive. If only interest reinvestment was the answer… You can't withstand inflation rates of 10% for long no matter how much interest reinvesting you do with rates at 5%. Getting it up to about 7% ±0.5% I think it's essential. And LLI could help, if only it was easier.
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