GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Jul 8, 2020 15:51:49 GMT
It isn't quite as negative as I feared.
Some progress has been made, although the chattels situation seems to be stuck.
Encouraging that there's some movement on some of the larger property assets, although that progress could come unstuck given the economic circumstances we are in.
Unless I'm reading it wrong, it suggests that interim repayments can start to be made on a loan by loan basis once all investor discrepancies have been sorted out and all investors have agreed their personal spreadsheets and exposure to the various loans etc.
Maybe I need to take my rose tinted spectacles off.
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7d7
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Post by 7d7 on Jul 8, 2020 16:22:26 GMT
It's no secret the JL are moving at a glacial pace. Waiting for 2 years and counting for a substantive response whilst draining the accounts says it all. The balance in hand keeps heading south as the CC approves their fees. With no limit to the liquidation phase or their investigation, one can foresee what the final balance would look like at some undetermined time in the remote future. Losses, if any, cannot be crystallised till then.
Last year, the excuse employed for not making interim distributions was the process had to be economic. Now, it's the investor exposure position. Who knows what it would be next year?
I recall vividly when Monetus talked about progress accelerating significantly this year after the December 2019 update. He stated that if it doesn't, then some serious questions need to be answered. Well, it's about time as we're past the mid-way point already with zilch realisations been made with the chattel loans.
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jj
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Post by jj on Jul 8, 2020 16:47:57 GMT
If you read the report, the issue that is holding up interim distribution on some loans are investor queries in relation to their summaries. Once those have been resolved, the intention is to make interim distributions following liaison with the CC over the cost. Totally unfair. They should be communicating with the FCA over cost.
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duck
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Post by duck on Jul 9, 2020 3:43:03 GMT
If you read the report, the issue that is holding up interim distribution on some loans are investor queries in relation to their summaries. Once those have been resolved, the intention is to make interim distributions following liaison with the CC over the cost. ................. and don't expect that cost to be inconsequential. New payment system to be set up probably, checks to be made, further accounting at BDO etc. At least with LY and FS these hurdles didn't need to be erected and then overcome.
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Post by spareapennyor2 on Jul 9, 2020 6:24:46 GMT
somehow i don`t expect BDO will get a substantive response to questions after 2 years even when a face to face meeting is held then 6 months to decide next step ( what if they say we weren`t very good at this) would like to think plan B is all ready set up to implement straight away
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tony9239
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Post by tony9239 on Jul 10, 2020 10:33:54 GMT
I find it incredible that BDO are still waiting for responses to some of their queries from the former directors. Whether they respond seems to be optional - where's the enforcement? I thought being Liquidators (rather than just Administrators) gave them much more clout. These directors are the ones who, allegedly, - made lots of dodgy loans with our money,
- managed to get the FCA register subverted in their favour,
- tried to get their mates appointed as Administrators when the sh*t hit the fan, and
- trashed the IT system in an effort to cover-up their actions.
Are these people really going to come clean and answer all BDO's queries now? This whole system is crazy - especially as it seems to be in BDO's favour to keep the affair running as long as possible. And if there ever is any form of interim distribution, just wait for us all to have to pass a load of identity checks and money-laundering tests. What larks, Pip.
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keystone
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Post by keystone on Jul 10, 2020 10:59:57 GMT
Indeed. The whole process is ridiculous which is why the FCA should take responsibility for misleading investors that Collateral were regulated and deal with the complaints and put investors back to the position they were before. They shouldn't be putting over 1100 investors through the stress and hardship of this, not all of us are wealthy and can go years with out access to the funds.
The FCA should be the ones waiting for the liquidators to recover the money whilst racking up thousands in fees, I'm pretty sure BDO would be moving at a faster pace and not dragging things out if they had the FCA on their backs and not just investors that they continue to ignore. The whole process shows the incompetence of the FCA and their regulatory powers. They allowed this mess to happen because of failures in their processes, namely in allowing anyone to manipulate the FCA's register.
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7d7
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Post by 7d7 on Jul 10, 2020 11:54:22 GMT
Incontrovertibly, prolonging liquidation ensures the JL enrich themselves with the pennies recovered. They are taking advantage of the poor set-up, which provides no incentive to conclude promptly. In their favour is time (no limit to the liquidation) and money (the fees endorsed by the CC). Consequently, the varied excuses used for not making interim distributions is of no surprise.
Such conduct cannot be exhibited if their remuneration depended on loan settlements. They would have disposed of the chattels by now and pursued negligence claims against the directors.
Will a response from the former directors all of sudden bring our money back? 2 years of waiting with fees still being approved by the CC on a time cost basis has emboldened them. Why not wait longer? Perhaps another year, two or even a decade!
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duck
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Post by duck on Jul 10, 2020 12:08:09 GMT
I find it incredible that BDO are still waiting for responses to some of their queries from the former directors. Whether they respond seems to be optional - where's the enforcement? ..... The enforcement (from BDOs point of view) will be under Section 235 of the Insolvency Act, this is what has been pointed to in other posts. Courts have not been sitting, hearing have been put off. This is a legal requirement. Indeed that is my belief as well (ignoring the fact that we don't know our losses at this time) Things have become more complicated recently. The FCA issued a statement back on June 16th. This is in response (I believe) to this Complaints Commissioners ruling, the FCA also responded. The FCA have been unable to give me a date that the Consultation will start. Collateral is a very unusual case, Andrew Baileys 'biggest regret' at the Treasury Committee. The FCA know they have failed badly but they are set up in such a way that does not cater for such situations. Avenues are being explored behind the scenes.
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Post by dan1 on Jul 10, 2020 12:09:58 GMT
Incontrovertibly, prolonging liquidation ensures the JL enrich themselves with the pennies recovered. They are taking advantage of the poor set-up, which provides no incentive to conclude promptly. In their favour is time (no limit to the liquidation) and money (the fees endorsed by the CC). Consequently, the varied excuses used for not making interim distributions is of no surprise. Such conduct cannot be exhibited if their remuneration depended on loan settlements. They would have disposed of the chattels by now and pursued negligence claims against the directors. Will a response from the former directors all of sudden bring our money back? 2 years of waiting with fees still being approved by the CC on a time cost basis has emboldened them. Why not wait longer? Perhaps another year, two or even a decade! Absolutely. I find with most decisions in life you just need to look at vested interests - the human race is successful because we're a selfish bunch on the whole! COL is a nice little cash cow for BDO. TBH I couldn't say that if I were in their shoes that my actions would be more ethical!
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m2btj
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Post by m2btj on Jul 10, 2020 13:29:12 GMT
Incontrovertibly, prolonging liquidation ensures the JL enrich themselves with the pennies recovered. They are taking advantage of the poor set-up, which provides no incentive to conclude promptly. In their favour is time (no limit to the liquidation) and money (the fees endorsed by the CC). Consequently, the varied excuses used for not making interim distributions is of no surprise. Such conduct cannot be exhibited if their remuneration depended on loan settlements. They would have disposed of the chattels by now and pursued negligence claims against the directors. Will a response from the former directors all of sudden bring our money back? 2 years of waiting with fees still being approved by the CC on a time cost basis has emboldened them. Why not wait longer? Perhaps another year, two or even a decade! Absolutely. I find with most decisions in life you just need to look at vested interests - the human race is successful because we're a selfish bunch on the whole! COL is a nice little cash cow for BDO. TBH I couldn't say that if I were in their shoes that my actions would be more ethical! One of the few industries where you get to write a blank cheque. BDO will be bitterly disappointed if they leave any meat on the carcass of COLL.
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Post by shootingstar on Jul 10, 2020 17:34:07 GMT
Apart from cash I had sitting on the platform, I had virtually all my money lent out on 1) X M****** H***** in Chelsea 2) the HMO at X M***** Street in Blackpool.
It seems like both properties have now sold for more than the actual loan that was attached. Any view on whether this should bode well for an eventual decent recovery of my money? potentially including interest? my fingers are crossed
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 10, 2020 19:50:39 GMT
Apart from cash I had sitting on the platform, I had virtually all my money lent out on 1) X M****** H***** in Chelsea 2) the HMO at X M***** Street in Blackpool. It seems like both properties have now sold for more than the actual loan that was attached. Any view on whether this should bode well for an eventual decent recovery of my money? potentially including interest? my fingers are crossed I think hope for interest is pretty unlikely, hopefully a reasonable recovery of capital, but you never know .
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Post by df on Jul 10, 2020 19:51:13 GMT
Apart from cash I had sitting on the platform, I had virtually all my money lent out on 1) X M****** H***** in Chelsea 2) the HMO at X M***** Street in Blackpool. It seems like both properties have now sold for more than the actual loan that was attached. Any view on whether this should bode well for an eventual decent recovery of my money? potentially including interest? my fingers are crossed It's amassing that some valuations of assets were real (not inflated like for most of assets)... Fees will obviously eat some of proceeds, but in theory you should receive your capital (or most of it) back. Interest is probably a wishful thinking, but it sounds like you are in much better position than most of us. I'm in two of the loans listed in top table of the report, but they are only a small fraction of my COL investment.
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dh1
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Post by dh1 on Jul 11, 2020 13:33:28 GMT
I'm pretty much at sea when it comes to company administration, so I've taken a very simple view of what BDO have actually said. In the latest report (page 8, last paragraph) they mention their fee (ie total costs) estimate of the liquidations, etc of about £986,000. This figure was previously published.
They also indicate that the figure will be slightly exceeded (page 9, paragraph 2).
Looking at the ever so important receipts and payments page (11 in the report) BDO have drawn around £500,000 in fees so far - there are other expenses as well, of course.
There is still, even after the deductions, a balance of around £1.4m in the bank...
If I was a strategist, I'd want to make sure that most, if not all, lenders received at least some money from all this - actually, as much as possible - to reduce the scope and potential of brick hurling at both the liquidators and the FCA.
I also note that BDO are anticipating (carefully - in fact elegantly - caveated) "distributions" (page 7, paragraphs 1, 2 and 3).
Interesting, isn't it?
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