beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
Posts: 670
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Post by beagle on Dec 7, 2020 19:15:27 GMT
Curious about where this sudden and very welcome injection of liquidity has come from. Anyone care to speculate? Always My - somewhat arms-length - observation is that the rate of return increased shortly after the Metro Bank deal was fully approved. On the basis of solely that, I'd speculate that prior to the confirmation announcement, RS were withholding some monies to build up a war-chest just in case the deal didn't go through. Now the deal has completed - and MB will likely want RS focusing on them (and their products) as much as possible and as soon as possible - RS are free to increase the flow of returns to lenders looking to withdraw. (Probably 1001 reasons the above cannot possibly be accurate, but one of the joys of speculation is that it can be completely groundless with little chance of any consequence ) That war chest would be operational money. They wouldn't be allowed to use their own to repay. FCA rules.
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iRobot
Member of DD Central
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Post by iRobot on Dec 7, 2020 19:38:10 GMT
Always My - somewhat arms-length - observation is that the rate of return increased shortly after the Metro Bank deal was fully approved. On the basis of solely that, I'd speculate that prior to the confirmation announcement, RS were withholding some monies to build up a war-chest just in case the deal didn't go through. Now the deal has completed - and MB will likely want RS focusing on them (and their products) as much as possible and as soon as possible - RS are free to increase the flow of returns to lenders looking to withdraw. (Probably 1001 reasons the above cannot possibly be accurate, but one of the joys of speculation is that it can be completely groundless with little chance of any consequence ) That war chest would be operational money. They wouldn't be allowed to use their own to repay. FCA rules. If RS had any of money of their own, MB would have needed to pay an awful lot more than than a couple of mill upfront and a conditional IOU for some more in the future (maybe). Yes, my speculated monies would have been held back for operational purposes - salaries and the like - but now that MB are (almost literally) available to act as 'Bank of Mum&Dad', RS - with MB oversight - no longer need to keep a war chest filled to the top and the full flow of redemptions (net of the usual deductions) is once more finding it's way back to lenders. That's my highly speculative take on things, anyway... (Not that everything is rosy in the garden - I too fear for those holding the parcel when the music eventually stops.)
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littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 8, 2020 8:37:14 GMT
Could it be that ratesetter is starting to prove a lot of people wrong (many here would need to eat their words). A way to go but it seems money keeps flowing out, 2 markets liquid and reports of huge jumps in QIF. Yes, they are proving people wrong. The people that think RS is a good investment and the people that believe RS's forecasts. On the 16th March we recieved a message from the CEO bragging about how the rates on RS were unaffected by covid. On the 4th May they had to admit that "the key metric for the provision fund: the Interest Coverage Ratio (ICR)" had fallen from 113% in Feb to 74% in March. Therefore they were cutting interest rates in half, and predicted that that should restore the ICR to 100% by the end of the year. They kept up the pretence that the rate cuts would restore the ICR to 100% right up until October, by repeating each month that they were on track (despite the fact that it was blindingly obvious from the numbers that they were not on track). The ICR now stands at 68%. They now say that the cut in rates will remain indefinitely (until the ICR is restored, but with no forecast as to when that might be). So, the cut in interest rates for over 6 months has seen the ICR fall from 74% to 68%. There is no recognition that the eventual removal of government handouts and stimuli will likely have a further negative impact on the ICR. It wouldn't take much to reduce the capital coverage ratio below 100%, at which point capital haircuts will be required. It makes no sense to invest in RS at near FSCS rates without FSCS protection. Especially given that there are real risks that those left holding the baby will suffer capital losses. And even more so given that there are better secured investments offering much higher rates, including in P2P. I completely agree with this analysis. I would just add the question "Where is the cash to fund these payouts coming from?". AFAIK the only source of funds is 1) New investment cash at 1.5% in Access with no withdrawal access and no FSCS cover. My estimate is zero. 2) Lenders who have not set their required rate to the max (none on this forum but we are a small minority). As the loans they hold are repaid by borrowers the funds are used to buy loans from those at the front of the RYIQ. Some of these will already be in the RYIQ themselves not realising what is going on. Why the press have not picked up on this is a mystery.
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Post by stevepn on Dec 8, 2020 9:33:49 GMT
After seven long months I am now lower than 10,000 in the queue for my money back in "Access". At the rate it has been going in the last couple of weeks I might have my money back March/April.
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Post by RateSetter on Dec 8, 2020 17:19:28 GMT
Good afternoon. Today we have delivered £0.2m and the full update is below:
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Post by oppsididitagain on Dec 8, 2020 19:42:21 GMT
Good afternoon. Today we have delivered £0.2m and the full update is below: with over 1Mil still unmatched at 3% on Access, I think you could have released a lot more money today...
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sl75
Posts: 2,092
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Post by sl75 on Dec 8, 2020 20:28:42 GMT
Good afternoon. Today we have delivered £0.2m and the full update is below: with over 1Mil still unmatched at 3% on Access, I think you could have released a lot more money today... I make it more than £4M at rates that have been routinely matched in the past... and considering that lenders receive only half of that amount for the foreseeable future, I don't see much reason to follow the rates further down.
It has been clear for some time that when RateSetter says "We are continuing to deliver as many requests as possible every day" it is a blatent lie.
It might be useful if they could actually publish the matching strategy, in particular the maximum rate they're going to be permitting to be matched until further notice, so that we don't waste time managing offers at rates they're not going to permit to be matched on the "market" anyway (I could then make an informed decision of whether I find the rate marginally acceptable, and re-invest the money, or just take it straight off the platform, rather than leaving it on offer at a rate that is already below anything I ever had matched in Max before, just to withdraw it a few weeks later when it hasn't been matched)
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
Posts: 670
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Post by beagle on Dec 8, 2020 21:31:28 GMT
with over 1Mil still unmatched at 3% on Access, I think you could have released a lot more money today... I make it more than £4M at rates that have been routinely matched in the past... and considering that lenders receive only half of that amount for the foreseeable future, I don't see much reason to follow the rates further down.
It has been clear for some time that when RateSetter says "We are continuing to deliver as many requests as possible every day" it is a blatent lie.
It might be useful if they could actually publish the matching strategy, in particular the maximum rate they're going to be permitting to be matched until further notice, so that we don't waste time managing offers at rates they're not going to permit to be matched on the "market" anyway (I could then make an informed decision of whether I find the rate marginally acceptable, and re-invest the money, or just take it straight off the platform, rather than leaving it on offer at a rate that is already below anything I ever had matched in Max before, just to withdraw it a few weeks later when it hasn't been matched)
i doubt it was a 'lie'. They were delayed with loan repayments which will likely have impacted this and the tech guys probably logged off. it could be 50 million or 100k. I am quite sure they could not care less if you took your money off the platform or reinvested. metro is now the investor. if i was you, i would take all my money and then be happy and walk. to keep reinvest and then play risk with the money is simply not worth it. They will not publish anything as it would be wasted work, slowly but surely more of us are getting money back - it is clear as the forum is becoming quieter and quieter - we keep seeing posts of 'i got mine and good luck' (the weekend was great) and as we disappear into the night the voice of the independent investor on ratesetter becomes slightly fainter and fainter. the value for them to work on our requests would be absolutely zero. they are likely working on making the loans work for metro and as long as they release funds daily whatever that is, protect capital and stick to the rules. the rest will be ignored. i'm sure we will see more tomorrow. but for those in the queue there is only but two options wait or complain and then wait anyway and come what may funds will return or be lost. the nature of p2p.
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Post by p2plender on Dec 9, 2020 1:03:43 GMT
"10000 in the queue.. Might get money back March/April"
Not the way they've slowed to snail pace last few days... Just a drop of 30 in the queue today.
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Post by Ace on Dec 9, 2020 7:56:31 GMT
"10000 in the queue.. Might get money back March/April" Not the way they've slowed to snail pace last few days... Just a drop of 30 in the queue today. There's £1.4m currently waiting to be lent at 3%, so there will likely be a decent place drop when this gets processed (probably later today). No guarantees of course. There could be a whale that takes it all, or they could lend it all out in new loans, but on current form it will most likely be returned to those in the exit queue.
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tjtl
Posts: 232
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Post by tjtl on Dec 9, 2020 8:23:50 GMT
From Beagle
slowly but surely more of us are getting money back - it is clear as the forum is becoming quieter and quieter - we keep seeing posts of 'i got mine and good luck' (the weekend was great) and as we disappear into the night the voice of the independent investor on ratesetter becomes slightly fainter and fainter
Excellently put- it was clear when metro bought RS what would happen- individual investors became overnight something RS wanted rid-of. And no point getting too grumpy about this- I suspect without Metro's involvement the prospect of meaningful haircuts to capital would have been highly likely.
It is a bit depressing to see the forum becoming quieter- we have lost some amusing posters. Hopefully, post pandemic, new business models and market entrants will appear. I am not convinced that all P2P businesses will die- in fact I am sure a few will survive and prosper- but while the economic storms whirl around "under the mattress" seems a good place to put cash ( and I haven't yet found a decent forum for discussing the merits of different types of mattress to cover ones cash pile)
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lakshmi
New Member
Om
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Post by lakshmi on Dec 9, 2020 12:03:29 GMT
hi all,
As of Monday 7th I got most of my investment release back into my holding account. There is still 1.400 there. Can't quite understand why this last bit reamains and RS have not updated my queues or pending funds.
I'm really grateful and so relieved but it has been a long stressful wait. My initial release date was March 18th. I also made a release request on March 25th. So perhaps that is the last bit. Happy to wait as long as it comes through.
Really not sure where to put it now. RS was good to me and I was happy using it when investment return was good.
Thanks everyone here for the support and info.
Adios for now.
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Post by oldatheist on Dec 9, 2020 22:23:25 GMT
hi all,
As of Monday 7th I got most of my investment release back into my holding account. There is still 1.400 there. Can't quite understand why this last bit reamains and RS have not updated my queues or pending funds.
I'm really grateful and so relieved but it has been a long stressful wait. My initial release date was March 18th. I also made a release request on March 25th. So perhaps that is the last bit. Happy to wait as long as it comes through.
Really not sure where to put it now. RS was good to me and I was happy using it when investment return was good.
Thanks everyone here for the support and info.
Adios for now.
Same here, had 80% of mine back several days ago but there is still just under £1k left, which is at no 17 in the Q. it was at 18 2 days ago.
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Post by RateSetter on Dec 9, 2020 22:34:32 GMT
Good evening. Today we have delivered £0.8m and the full update is below:
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sl75
Posts: 2,092
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Post by sl75 on Dec 9, 2020 23:39:25 GMT
i doubt it was a 'lie'. They were delayed with loan repayments which will likely have impacted this and the tech guys probably logged off. it could be 50 million or 100k. I am quite sure they could not care less if you took your money off the platform or reinvested. metro is now the investor. if i was you, i would take all my money and then be happy and walk. to keep reinvest and then play risk with the money is simply not worth it. It absolutely is a lie.
Having had money on the market almost all year, and only a handful of matches, it is 100% clear that RateSetter never had any intent to "deliver as many requests as possible every day". Instead they deliver only as many as they determine won't push the rates too high based on criteria that we don't know in detail as they keep them private.
This disadvantages both sides of the market - those who needed money quickly a few months ago are still waiting (when they could have been matched in a fair market), and those with money to invest at the right return for the risk are being denied the opportunity to do so.
As you say, I'll be taking my money off the platform rather than lowering my offered rate to the level RateSetter seem to be trying to dictate... but only after I've shown willing by keeping it on offer at a reasonable rate (actually a record low rate for me - my previous average in Max was 6%, and I've now got some offers on the marketplace lower than 5%)
For those stuck in the RYI queue, be aware that the speed that it is being processed is being limited by factors that are entirely RateSetter's decision, and not by any external factors that prevent them from delivering any more requests each day.
Just had another big chunk from today's repayments, which combined with the last few means over 25% of my RateSetter total is "on market". It'll sit on the market for a few days, but if it's then clear RateSetter still have no intention of allowing the market to operate, I'll find another home for it (no urgently pressing need right now, or it would have been withdrawn from the platform already).
[for me personally, it's only relatively mild frustration at being unable to invest at rates I barely find marginally acceptable, but was maintaining in order to allow one or two more of those who wished to exit to do so... the accumulated level of several months of mild frustration finally spilled over into a comment]
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