benaj
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Post by benaj on Mar 13, 2020 17:59:49 GMT
In the past I have experienced good RYI speed and reasonable speed. The longest was 2 weeks and RS did everything right in the past to make things right.
No panic at this stage. I would definitely add money more when the next opportunity comes.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Mar 13, 2020 19:30:07 GMT
In the past I have experienced good RYI speed and reasonable speed. The longest was 2 weeks and RS did everything right in the past to make things right. No panic at this stage. I would definitely add money more when the next opportunity comes. Same for me. No issues. I have been with RS since 2010 As highlighted in the RS note, it did take longer when the fee free sellout related to the wholesale lending issue was in place, but all requests were processed just fine then.
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Post by tom1 on Mar 13, 2020 20:18:15 GMT
Thank you for giving us more information about what is going on behind the scenes, it is reassuring that you are taking specific action to prioritise the release requests. Can you give us any more information about why it is going to be so long? If I look at the market data for Access right now, there appears to be £750k being offered at 3%. All of my loans are above 3% so I would expect my release to be easy to fulfill essentially immediately. What is causing the delay? If yours was the only withdrawal request, there would be no delay. If just 1% of investments (by value) have been requested to be released, then the RYI queue is many times larger than the money on offer from Lenders sticking it out and not panicking. AC have also suspended withdrawals, which implies their cash buffer has been exhausted. RS do not hold a cash buffer to service RYI requests. I don’t think anyone would reasonably claim that these are “normal market conditions”, which is why that caveat exists in so many T&Cs. I'm well aware that I'm not the only one with a withdrawal request . I think that the general question still stands. Perhaps I need to rephrase it. I can understand why matching a potential borrower to a potential lender sometimes is slow because there is often a mismatch between the borrower offer and the lowest available lender offer. Howver, in the case of RYI requests, these should be able to match extremely quickly because all you need to do is take each of the loans from the lender and look for the first available lender offer which is at that rate. I don't see how this could take more than a few seconds per loan (for a human, and fractions of that for a computer program, even if it was running on a single raspberry pi). So I suppose I am wondering why so much money is still sitting on the lender offer market at rates lower than my loans (and those of other customers waiting for investment release). The 105 people waiting to lend £15.4k at 9.9% could be made very happy right now by being given my ~£300 of loans at 9.9%, for example. Why should that have to take over a week to process?
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Mar 13, 2020 20:34:56 GMT
If yours was the only withdrawal request, there would be no delay. If just 1% of investments (by value) have been requested to be released, then the RYI queue is many times larger than the money on offer from Lenders sticking it out and not panicking. AC have also suspended withdrawals, which implies their cash buffer has been exhausted. RS do not hold a cash buffer to service RYI requests. I don’t think anyone would reasonably claim that these are “normal market conditions”, which is why that caveat exists in so many T&Cs. I'm well aware that I'm not the only one with a withdrawal request . I think that the general question still stands. Perhaps I need to rephrase it. I can understand why matching a potential borrower to a potential lender sometimes is slow because there is often a mismatch between the borrower offer and the lowest available lender offer. Howver, in the case of RYI requests, these should be able to match extremely quickly because all you need to do is take each of the loans from the lender and look for the first available lender offer which is at that rate. I don't see how this could take more than a few seconds per loan (for a human, and fractions of that for a computer program, even if it was running on a single raspberry pi). So I suppose I am wondering why so much money is still sitting on the lender offer market at rates lower than my loans (and those of other customers waiting for investment release). The 105 people waiting to lend £15.4k at 9.9% could be made very happy right now by being given my ~£300 of loans at 9.9%, for example. Why should that have to take over a week to process?
No no no, it doesn't work like that at all.
Firstly, you are in a queue that is processed in order of the request being submitted. The fact that you have some high rate loans does not let you jump the queue.
Secondly, rates are irrelevant. There does not need to be another lender offering at a rate to match a loan you are selling. Your loans are transferred to someone else, and they receive the rate they sought. If it's less than the rate you were receiving, RS profit. If it's more, RS lose.
Thirdly, notwithstanding the previous point, RS are throttling RYI requests, matching gradually as new lender money arrives. If it was unthrottled, the first few requests would completely clear out the entire market (and thus it would stay).
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Post by aidanw on Mar 13, 2020 21:48:42 GMT
The RYI queue lacks transparency.
The fact the my legacy 5 year loans are released many days quicker than my supposed quick access loans raises a lot of questions.
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Mar 13, 2020 23:11:22 GMT
The RYI queue lacks transparency. The fact the my legacy 5 year loans are released many days quicker than my supposed quick access loans raises a lot of questions.
Speculating a bit here ...
I can understand why the 5 Year Market might have a different queue from the Access market (and the 1 Year market another different queue). It is possible that things are designed such that an RYI of a loan has to be done by transferring it to other lenders in the same market. When creating the system, that probably would have been simpler and did not seem to matter at the time.
We sometimes see what appears to be RS moving offers between markets, but I get the feeling it is done manually and may not be possible for an RYI.
On the other hand, I would NOT expect to find that Access, Plus and Max have different RYI queues, because they are really one and the same market. It wouldn't feel quite right if RYIs from Max (with a fee) were prioritised before Access (with no fee).
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Post by amandadee on Mar 14, 2020 0:17:16 GMT
I'm well aware that I'm not the only one with a withdrawal request . I think that the general question still stands. Perhaps I need to rephrase it. I can understand why matching a potential borrower to a potential lender sometimes is slow because there is often a mismatch between the borrower offer and the lowest available lender offer. Howver, in the case of RYI requests, these should be able to match extremely quickly because all you need to do is take each of the loans from the lender and look for the first available lender offer which is at that rate. I don't see how this could take more than a few seconds per loan (for a human, and fractions of that for a computer program, even if it was running on a single raspberry pi). So I suppose I am wondering why so much money is still sitting on the lender offer market at rates lower than my loans (and those of other customers waiting for investment release). The 105 people waiting to lend £15.4k at 9.9% could be made very happy right now by being given my ~£300 of loans at 9.9%, for example. Why should that have to take over a week to process?
No no no, it doesn't work like that at all.
Firstly, you are in a queue that is processed in order of the request being submitted. The fact that you have some high rate loans does not let you jump the queue.
Secondly, rates are irrelevant. There does not need to be another lender offering at a rate to match a loan you are selling. Your loans are transferred to someone else, and they receive the rate they sought. If it's less than the rate you were receiving, RS profit. If it's more, RS lose.
Thirdly, notwithstanding the previous point, RS are throttling RYI requests, matching gradually as new lender money arrives. If it was unthrottled, the first few requests would completely clear out the entire market (and thus it would stay).
Hi Stonk, Agree on that third point as at end of day we can still see a queue of lender waiting to lend while at the same time there is a bunch of us waiting for RYI requests to be closed. A bit confused why they would throttle like this? Isn’t it just causing concern and probably then driving up the RYI requests? Why not just close to the maximum possible each day? Curious to hear thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2020 9:11:07 GMT
Hi Stonk, Agree on that third point as at end of day we can still see a queue of lender waiting to lend while at the same time there is a bunch of us waiting for RYI requests to be closed. A bit confused why they would throttle like this? Isn’t it just causing concern and probably then driving up the RYI requests? Why not just close to the maximum possible each day? Curious to hear thoughts. It does cause concern, but not as much concern as if the queues went to zero and it was clear that any invested money would go straight to an RYI request - then it would look like a Ponzi scheme (which it isn't as there are loans backing everyone's deposits).
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Post by jaycee on Mar 14, 2020 9:35:57 GMT
I'm well aware that I'm not the only one with a withdrawal request . I think that the general question still stands. Perhaps I need to rephrase it. I can understand why matching a potential borrower to a potential lender sometimes is slow because there is often a mismatch between the borrower offer and the lowest available lender offer. Howver, in the case of RYI requests, these should be able to match extremely quickly because all you need to do is take each of the loans from the lender and look for the first available lender offer which is at that rate. I don't see how this could take more than a few seconds per loan (for a human, and fractions of that for a computer program, even if it was running on a single raspberry pi). So I suppose I am wondering why so much money is still sitting on the lender offer market at rates lower than my loans (and those of other customers waiting for investment release). The 105 people waiting to lend £15.4k at 9.9% could be made very happy right now by being given my ~£300 of loans at 9.9%, for example. Why should that have to take over a week to process?
No no no, it doesn't work like that at all.
Firstly, you are in a queue that is processed in order of the request being submitted. The fact that you have some high rate loans does not let you jump the queue.
Secondly, rates are irrelevant. There does not need to be another lender offering at a rate to match a loan you are selling. Your loans are transferred to someone else, and they receive the rate they sought. If it's less than the rate you were receiving, RS profit. If it's more, RS lose.
Thirdly, notwithstanding the previous point, RS are throttling RYI requests, matching gradually as new lender money arrives. If it was unthrottled, the first few requests would completely clear out the entire market (and thus it would stay).
That said, if the problem is too many people wanting to take money out, and too few people wanting to put money in, part of the solution should be for rates to rise. Artificially preventing that by throttling the queue may be a sensible measure designed to prevent panic, or may be a venal measure designed to prevent RS having to take a loss by offering higher rates to lenders than they are currently paying on the throttled money. Potayto Potahto.
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Post by herringbone on Mar 14, 2020 11:08:36 GMT
No no no, it doesn't work like that at all.
Firstly, you are in a queue that is processed in order of the request being submitted. The fact that you have some high rate loans does not let you jump the queue.
Secondly, rates are irrelevant. There does not need to be another lender offering at a rate to match a loan you are selling. Your loans are transferred to someone else, and they receive the rate they sought. If it's less than the rate you were receiving, RS profit. If it's more, RS lose.
Thirdly, notwithstanding the previous point, RS are throttling RYI requests, matching gradually as new lender money arrives. If it was unthrottled, the first few requests would completely clear out the entire market (and thus it would stay).
That said, if the problem is too many people wanting to take money out, and too few people wanting to put money in, part of the solution should be for rates to rise. Artificially preventing that by throttling the queue may be a sensible measure designed to prevent panic, or may be a venal measure designed to prevent RS having to take a loss by offering higher rates to lenders than they are currently paying on the throttled money. Potayto Potahto.
I admit self interest may be guiding my thinking, but I'm happy to leave funds in RS.
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Mar 14, 2020 12:10:30 GMT
No no no, it doesn't work like that at all.
Firstly, you are in a queue that is processed in order of the request being submitted. The fact that you have some high rate loans does not let you jump the queue.
Secondly, rates are irrelevant. There does not need to be another lender offering at a rate to match a loan you are selling. Your loans are transferred to someone else, and they receive the rate they sought. If it's less than the rate you were receiving, RS profit. If it's more, RS lose.
Thirdly, notwithstanding the previous point, RS are throttling RYI requests, matching gradually as new lender money arrives. If it was unthrottled, the first few requests would completely clear out the entire market (and thus it would stay).
Hi Stonk, Agree on that third point as at end of day we can still see a queue of lender waiting to lend while at the same time there is a bunch of us waiting for RYI requests to be closed. A bit confused why they would throttle like this? Isn’t it just causing concern and probably then driving up the RYI requests? Why not just close to the maximum possible each day? Curious to hear thoughts.
Why would they throttle? Well, if they did not, then every existing lender order would be matched instantly. So would every new lender order placed. Lenders would very quickly realise that they can lend at any rate they choose, hence would all choose the maximum possible. And RS would rapidly make a huge paper loss that risks their survival.
As for letting RYIs happen until they are close to the maximum possible, that is probably the situation right now. That few hundred £K of lender orders on the market is surely a small fraction of the RYI queue.
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Post by cinereus on Mar 14, 2020 15:01:21 GMT
Hi Stonk, Agree on that third point as at end of day we can still see a queue of lender waiting to lend while at the same time there is a bunch of us waiting for RYI requests to be closed. A bit confused why they would throttle like this? Isn’t it just causing concern and probably then driving up the RYI requests? Why not just close to the maximum possible each day? Curious to hear thoughts.
Why would they throttle? Well, if they did not, then every existing lender order would be matched instantly. So would every new lender order placed. Lenders would very quickly realise that they can lend at any rate they choose, hence would all choose the maximum possible. And RS would rapidly make a huge paper loss that risks their survival.
As for letting RYIs happen until they are close to the maximum possible, that is probably the situation right now. That few hundred £K of lender orders on the market is surely a small fraction of the RYI queue.
So if the RYI queue substantially increases, the viability of the whole project starts to be called into question?
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Post by tom1 on Mar 14, 2020 15:13:10 GMT
I'm well aware that I'm not the only one with a withdrawal request . I think that the general question still stands. Perhaps I need to rephrase it. I can understand why matching a potential borrower to a potential lender sometimes is slow because there is often a mismatch between the borrower offer and the lowest available lender offer. Howver, in the case of RYI requests, these should be able to match extremely quickly because all you need to do is take each of the loans from the lender and look for the first available lender offer which is at that rate. I don't see how this could take more than a few seconds per loan (for a human, and fractions of that for a computer program, even if it was running on a single raspberry pi). So I suppose I am wondering why so much money is still sitting on the lender offer market at rates lower than my loans (and those of other customers waiting for investment release). The 105 people waiting to lend £15.4k at 9.9% could be made very happy right now by being given my ~£300 of loans at 9.9%, for example. Why should that have to take over a week to process?
No no no, it doesn't work like that at all.
Firstly, you are in a queue that is processed in order of the request being submitted. The fact that you have some high rate loans does not let you jump the queue.
Secondly, rates are irrelevant. There does not need to be another lender offering at a rate to match a loan you are selling. Your loans are transferred to someone else, and they receive the rate they sought. If it's less than the rate you were receiving, RS profit. If it's more, RS lose.
Thirdly, notwithstanding the previous point, RS are throttling RYI requests, matching gradually as new lender money arrives. If it was unthrottled, the first few requests would completely clear out the entire market (and thus it would stay).
Hmm. 1. If it is an arbitrary queue not a market why call it a market? If I have a loan that someone is already paying me 9% interest for, then it is more attractive than a loan that only has someone paying 2.8% interest on. In a marketplace, my 9% one would be able to be transferred to a new lender more quickly than someone else's 2.8% one, that principle drives the economic system elsewhere. 2. Is that confirmed by RS? There always seemed to be an implication that they needed to find someone prepared to loan at the same rate (which could be harder for lower rates). 3. This depends on your definition of throttling I suppose: a. The new loan throttling that I believe they have previously acknowledged (put borrower offer on market at low rate and increase the rate by known increment every hour that it remains unmatched) is perfectly sensible to enable human lenders to undercut each other in human reaction time and retain a competitive market (since there should be no automated algorithmic lending going on by RS customers). b. If the model for RYI is as you describe (essentially treat them like new loans), then I would expect to see the RYI money on the market view page in the form of borrower offers with interest rates that gradually climb if they are not matched. This would be a safe way to 'throttle' as some people still wish to lend their money at various rates include quite low ones. c. Not displaying the RYI money on the market or somehow queuing it differently behind the scenes seems dangerous to me because it is opaque to current lenders who should be allowed to see the full market they are lending in. d. If the RYI 'throttling' is a hidden queue based solely on when the request was made, and in which each RYI must be completely fulfilled before the next can commence that seems to go against the principles of a market based lending platform.
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Post by riskandreturn on Mar 14, 2020 15:26:01 GMT
Unfair to suggest RS are throttling or delaying access to money. They went on the record after 2017 summer sellout to say they lost 5% of their customers. On around £850m of loans that’s over £40m of sellout requests. There’s only about £1m on the markets, even if they cleared out the markets you’ve still got a huge backlog. Unless there’s a flood of new investor money you simply need to wait for loans to repay. Good buying opportunity if anything, rates went up to 7% or 8% last time and all money was returned within 30 days as promised. Think RateSetter deserve some credit and some slack.
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Stonk
Stonking
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Likes: 658
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Post by Stonk on Mar 14, 2020 15:28:47 GMT
Why would they throttle? Well, if they did not, then every existing lender order would be matched instantly. So would every new lender order placed. Lenders would very quickly realise that they can lend at any rate they choose, hence would all choose the maximum possible. And RS would rapidly make a huge paper loss that risks their survival.
As for letting RYIs happen until they are close to the maximum possible, that is probably the situation right now. That few hundred £K of lender orders on the market is surely a small fraction of the RYI queue.
So if the RYI queue substantially increases, the viability of the whole project starts to be called into question?
I wouldn't go that far. The viability of always-available near-instant-access is in question, but that aspect has never been guaranteed (although many have assumed it).
If RS were to say, right now, that there can be no more RYI-ing (ever), and all requests in the queue are cancelled, then the platform could continue in principle much the same as before. Expectations of rates would change, though.
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