chris1200
Member of DD Central
Posts: 827
Likes: 508
|
Post by chris1200 on Apr 6, 2020 9:39:56 GMT
What I am saying is that money is being retuned to GS, this money is the property of the Lenders, where is it going? as you say it could be going to increased borrower requirements agreed by GS before this all started. In which case GS promised money it did not have, if it is going elsewhere I would like to know as it my money as this should be available to pay some interest and perhaps a small amount of capital repayment. I understand we cannot take away the revolving credit but surely GS have at least got some interest from borrowers.
No, Greenwood2 said that. I'm not sure how I can repeat what I've written above differently. It explains quite clearly why lenders aren't getting access to this money and where it is going (I imagine nowhere - that's the point: you have to build up liquidity by building up reserves).
|
|
ceejay
Posts: 971
Likes: 1,149
|
Post by ceejay on Apr 6, 2020 12:29:29 GMT
What I am saying is that money is being retuned to GS, this money is the property of the Lenders, where is it going? as you say it could be going to increased borrower requirements agreed by GS before this all started. In which case GS promised money it did not have, if it is going elsewhere I would like to know as it my money as this should be available to pay some interest and perhaps a small amount of capital repayment. I understand we cannot take away the revolving credit but surely GS have at least got some interest from borrowers.
No, Greenwood2 said that. I'm not sure how I can repeat what I've written above differently. It explains quite clearly why lenders aren't getting access to this money and where it is going (I imagine nowhere - that's the point: you have to build up liquidity by building up reserves). chris1200 - give up, this poster is also one of those filling the AC board with equally inane rantings. No good will come of this exchange.
|
|
alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 955
Likes: 645
|
Post by alender on Apr 6, 2020 15:04:57 GMT
No, Greenwood2 said that. I'm not sure how I can repeat what I've written above differently. It explains quite clearly why lenders aren't getting access to this money and where it is going (I imagine nowhere - that's the point: you have to build up liquidity by building up reserves). chris1200 - give up, this poster is also one of those filling the AC board with equally inane rantings. No good will come of this exchange. Sorry but it is my money, if chris1200 or another poster can shed some light on this I would be very interested. If you know or think you know where the money is going please let me know, if you don't that's fine because I do not know where these funds are and how much they are at risk.
|
|
chris1200
Member of DD Central
Posts: 827
Likes: 508
|
Post by chris1200 on Apr 6, 2020 18:15:30 GMT
chris1200 - give up, this poster is also one of those filling the AC board with equally inane rantings. No good will come of this exchange. Sorry but it is my money, if chris1200 or another poster can shed some light on this I would be very interested. If you know or think you know where the money is going please let me know, if you don't that's fine because I do not know where these funds are and how much they are at risk. Did... did you even read my post?? Read the earlier posts on this thread about deployment rate as well. If you still have specific questions, please feel free to ask, but right now it seems like you haven't even bothered to read and digest what's already been explained in detail (which, of course, has also always been written quite clearly in GS's T&C).
|
|
alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 955
Likes: 645
|
Post by alender on Apr 6, 2020 19:06:57 GMT
Sorry but it is my money, if chris1200 or another poster can shed some light on this I would be very interested. If you know or think you know where the money is going please let me know, if you don't that's fine because I do not know where these funds are and how much they are at risk. Did... did you even read my post?? Read the earlier posts on this thread about deployment rate as well. If you still have specific questions, please feel free to ask, but right now it seems like you haven't even bothered to read and digest what's already been explained in detail (which, of course, has also always been written quite clearly in GS's T&C). Yes, read all the posts. I assume the post you are talking about the post that contained
Instead, these (re)payments will (I imagine) be built up to give a decent buffer of liquidity across the whole platform, to provide a fighting chance of resuming normal service for everyone, but likely with some new withdrawal arrangements.
I was trying to find if anyone knows where the funds are actually going, I see speculation that Borrowers may be increasing their borrowing under pre-agreed limit or as you say may be in a liquidity buffer which I guess we can determine the size by the Deployment Ration which is 97%. This makes sense however I cannot find any hard facts where the money is, however speculation is fine in the absence of hard facts.
|
|
chris1200
Member of DD Central
Posts: 827
Likes: 508
|
Post by chris1200 on Apr 6, 2020 19:35:22 GMT
Did... did you even read my post?? Read the earlier posts on this thread about deployment rate as well. If you still have specific questions, please feel free to ask, but right now it seems like you haven't even bothered to read and digest what's already been explained in detail (which, of course, has also always been written quite clearly in GS's T&C). Yes, read all the posts. I assume the post you are talking about the post that contained
Instead, these (re)payments will (I imagine) be built up to give a decent buffer of liquidity across the whole platform, to provide a fighting chance of resuming normal service for everyone, but likely with some new withdrawal arrangements.
I was trying to find if anyone knows where the funds are actually going, I see speculation that Borrowers may be increasing their borrowing under pre-agreed limit or as you say may be in a liquidity buffer which I guess we can determine the size by the Deployment Ration which is 97%. This makes sense however I cannot find any hard facts where the money is, however speculation is fine in the absence of hard facts.
What do you mean by "the money"? Do you mean your money? If so, you can see exactly "where it is" on your account. If you mean all the money, it is circulating through the loans facilities as usual, and currently 3% of it is not invested (which, as you say, we can see from the deployment rate). This number appears to be building up. What else is there to know?
|
|
alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 955
Likes: 645
|
Post by alender on Apr 6, 2020 22:04:19 GMT
Yes, read all the posts. I assume the post you are talking about the post that contained
Instead, these (re)payments will (I imagine) be built up to give a decent buffer of liquidity across the whole platform, to provide a fighting chance of resuming normal service for everyone, but likely with some new withdrawal arrangements.
I was trying to find if anyone knows where the funds are actually going, I see speculation that Borrowers may be increasing their borrowing under pre-agreed limit or as you say may be in a liquidity buffer which I guess we can determine the size by the Deployment Ratio which is 97%. This makes sense however I cannot find any hard facts where the money is, however speculation is fine in the absence of hard facts.
What do you mean by "the money"? Do you mean your money? If so, you can see exactly "where it is" on your account. If you mean all the money, it is circulating through the loans facilities as usual, and currently 3% of it is not invested (which, as you say, we can see from the deployment rate). This number appears to be building up. What else is there to know? I was hoping someone might have more information than a few statistics and suppositions; it does not harm to ask except getting stick from some posters. There is a saying that "There's no such thing as a stupid question" which I have generally found to be true, if in any doubt look up the meaning of this saying.
However if this is all we have then that all we have to work with.
For this purpose let say the money collected is in interest payments, it cannot be in new loans as GS not taking on any new loans, the 3% which probably where it is going, I believe they had a close to 100% Deployment Ratio at the start of the liquidity event on 16/03/2020, as this is now 97% this gives a rate of increase of 5.4% apr which is points to interest collected. I guess GS are charging at higher interest rates but either not all borrowers are paying interest or it is going in fees or Borrowers increasing their loans. The statistics page I can find is from 5th Mar and if/when they release these statistics again we will have a better idea of the flow of money. Given that GS from the statistics have a 83.74% average utilisation they committed 16.26% more money than they actually have (if we ignore the 3% which is really the property of the Lenders) unless there is another pool of money somewhere. If some of the people on here are correct (I have no reason to doubt them) then GS is keeping this interest to cover future commitments. If GS keeps in lockdown it would take around 3 years of Lenders interest to cover these commitments.
It would be better if GS can give us this information rather than extrapolating it from the limited set of information released.
|
|
|
Post by garreh on Apr 7, 2020 20:59:52 GMT
What do you mean by "the money"? Do you mean your money? If so, you can see exactly "where it is" on your account. If you mean all the money, it is circulating through the loans facilities as usual, and currently 3% of it is not invested (which, as you say, we can see from the deployment rate). This number appears to be building up. What else is there to know? I know your trying to be helpful but I think your misunderstanding what alender is actually trying to find out. We know that the deployment rate is going down. That is publicly known information and available on their website. What ISN'T publicly known is exactly *what* and *where* this money is going. Your speculating that it's going nowhere and just building up. That's one speculation and answers only one question; where. It doesn't asnwer the what. i.e. is lending winding down? Are they interest payments? Growth Street have provided limited communication to investors, so at the moment all we have is speculation. However, as investors, we do have a right to know where our money is going.
|
|
|
Post by gravitykillz on Apr 7, 2020 21:46:02 GMT
So glad I pulled out a year ago. Otherwise was a great platform. Liquidity issues and media reports just made me paranoid at the time.
|
|
chris1200
Member of DD Central
Posts: 827
Likes: 508
|
Post by chris1200 on Apr 8, 2020 8:09:15 GMT
What do you mean by "the money"? Do you mean your money? If so, you can see exactly "where it is" on your account. If you mean all the money, it is circulating through the loans facilities as usual, and currently 3% of it is not invested (which, as you say, we can see from the deployment rate). This number appears to be building up. What else is there to know? I know your trying to be helpful but I think your misunderstanding what alender is actually trying to find out. We know that the deployment rate is going down. That is publicly known information and available on their website. What ISN'T publicly known is exactly *what* and *where* this money is going. Your speculating that it's going nowhere and just building up. That's one speculation and answers only one question; where. It doesn't asnwer the what. i.e. is lending winding down? Are they interest payments?Growth Street have provided limited communication to investors, so at the moment all we have is speculation. However, as investors, we do have a right to know where our money is going. Right, so actually it's not my misunderstanding but the wrong question. This question isn't "where is the money [that's building up] going?", it's "where is the money [that's building up] coming from?". Agreed that we do not have up-to-date stats about the lending portfolio so we can't be sure about this. However, we can make some educated guesses. For example, interest payments clearly aren't so high as to reach 3-4% in a matter of weeks. Given money can't be added to the platform right now, we can be pretty sure that there is a certain amount of repayment/facility reduction/winding down happening because this is the only possibility left to account for a lowering of the deployment rate. But, agreed - we don't know the specifics, and maybe at least an indication from Growth Street of their strategy in this regard would be helpful.
|
|
alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 955
Likes: 645
|
Post by alender on Apr 8, 2020 9:28:22 GMT
I know your trying to be helpful but I think your misunderstanding what alender is actually trying to find out. We know that the deployment rate is going down. That is publicly known information and available on their website. What ISN'T publicly known is exactly *what* and *where* this money is going. Your speculating that it's going nowhere and just building up. That's one speculation and answers only one question; where. It doesn't asnwer the what. i.e. is lending winding down? Are they interest payments?Growth Street have provided limited communication to investors, so at the moment all we have is speculation. However, as investors, we do have a right to know where our money is going. Right, so actually it's not my misunderstanding but the wrong question. This question isn't "where is the money [that's building up] going?", it's "where is the money [that's building up] coming from?". Agreed that we do not have up-to-date stats about the lending portfolio so we can't be sure about this. However, we can make some educated guesses. For example, interest payments clearly aren't so high as to reach 3-4% in a matter of weeks. Given money can't be added to the platform right now, we can be pretty sure that there is a certain amount of repayment/facility reduction/winding down happening because this is the only possibility left to account for a lowering of the deployment rate. But, agreed - we don't know the specifics, and maybe at least an indication from Growth Street of their strategy in this regard would be helpful. Chris you are right 3-4% fall in the deployment rate can not be just interest I made a mistake in my previous post and said 3%, it seemed to fit so well against an interest rate of 5%ish but this as you say does not make sense so I have looked at my calculation and it is in fact 0.3% (school boy error or perhaps hubble) so therefore the additional money is coming from somewhere. The most likely source is the loan facilities not being taken up which makes sense as invoices are being paid but less new invoices will be generated in this crisis.
It would be so much more helpful if GS could tell us what is happening rather than trying to guess using a limited set of figures.
If anyone has any other theories or better information it would be good to know.
|
|
chris1200
Member of DD Central
Posts: 827
Likes: 508
|
Post by chris1200 on Apr 9, 2020 11:53:58 GMT
FYI - The portfolio stats have been updated as of yesterday www.growthstreet.co.uk/investing/statisticsStupidly, I didn't note down the previous figures. Don't suppose anyone had the sense to take some screen grabs? I have done this time, at least, so can monitor from now on.
|
|
alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 955
Likes: 645
|
Post by alender on Apr 9, 2020 12:44:55 GMT
I did not take a screen shot but I have some of the numbers, missing Live borrowers
Mar 5 Apr 8 Difference
Live borrowers ? 132 ?
Loans outstanding £22,757,426 £21,306,718 -£1,450,708
Total available facility £27,177,766 £26,402,326 -£775,440
Average utilisation 83.73% 80.70% -3.04%
Deployment Rate ? 96.1%
Using these figures the amount of money not used but committed was £4,420,340 on 5th Mar and £5,095,608, an increase of £675,268 against a decrease of -£1,450,708 for Loans outstanding. Therefore the committed funds not used have gone up by £675,268 against a reduction of money on loan of £1,450,708 which gives decrease of £775,440 of the gap between total and committed funds and is accounted for by the reduction of the Total available facility.
The Current Length of Queue is £611,102 which is must be the 3.9% from the Deployment Rate
I assume the £1,450,708 (reduction in loans outstanding has been moved in to the account which is the non deployed funds which is obviously less than the Current Length of Queue, £611,102. However this was taken on 5th Mar before the lockdown so the difference could be accounted for by withdrawals plus Interest paid as I guess this in the £611,102 figure.
PS
First attempt copied the difference of Loans outstanding into Total available facility difference and Total available facility, difference of Loans outstanding, sorry for the mistake but have redone my analysis based on the correct differences.
|
|
chris1200
Member of DD Central
Posts: 827
Likes: 508
|
Post by chris1200 on Apr 9, 2020 13:21:21 GMT
I did not take a screen shot but I have some of the numbers, missing Live borrowers
Mar 5 Apr 8
Live borrowers ? 132
Loans outstanding £22,757,426 £21,306,718
Total available facility £27,177,766 £26,402,326
Average utilisation 83.73% 80.70%
Deployment Rate ? 96.1%
Thanks! So we seem to have had a reduction in total (available) lending and in actual utilisation among borrowers. Fingers crossed this continues for a few more weeks and then the platform is reopened with a new queued withdrawal system or similar
|
|
alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 955
Likes: 645
|
Post by alender on Apr 9, 2020 13:27:44 GMT
I did not take a screen shot but I have some of the numbers, missing Live borrowers
Mar 5 Apr 8
Live borrowers ? 132
Loans outstanding £22,757,426 £21,306,718
Total available facility £27,177,766 £26,402,326
Average utilisation 83.73% 80.70%
Deployment Rate ? 96.1%
Thanks! So we seem to have had a reduction in total (available) lending and in actual utilisation among borrowers. Fingers crossed this continues for a few more weeks and then the platform is reopened with a new queued withdrawal system or similar Yes, looks like good news, as you can now see I have added my interpretation of the figures.
I think the good new is that the deployment rate is going down giving more available cash which is increasing faster than the uncommitted funds (IMO). If we assume the deployment rate was close to 100% at lockdown it has increase by £611.102 against an increase in uncommitted funds of £675,268, on the face of it it looks bad, however these stats we taken on 5th Mar before the lockdown and a lot money was no doubt withdrawn between 5th Mar and the lockdown, IMO much more the the difference of these 2 figures.
|
|