chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Apr 27, 2020 13:27:45 GMT
May I ask if you've had a reply to your email, Chris? Not a peep, I'm afraid. For reference, the main body of the email was as follows: Further to the below, I just had a question I hoped you could answer. When you say:
"Please note, it is not currently feasible to make wholesale alterations to the operating process of our platform (including changes to withdrawals and/or our terms & conditions with you as a result of any changes), for the duration of the event."
what do you mean by "for the duration of the event"? Are you saying only that you can't make changes to the withdrawal process/broader T&C during the Liquidity Event, or also after it is lifted (if it is lifted)? You mention the issue of a run on withdrawals again causing a Resolution Event. Surely a switch to a form of queued withdrawals based on available liquidity (as employed, for example, by RateSetter and Assetz Capital) is the only way to avoid such an eventuality? drphil I've now received a response, the main body of which I'm sure GS won't mind me posting here: "When we communicated to you that we are unable to make wholesale alterations the the operating process of our platform, we mean this for the duration of the event. During a Liquidity Event, due to regulatory purposes, we are restricted in making such changes until the platform resumes 'normal operation'. In regard to your withdrawal queue suggestion to prevent a Resolution Event from occurring, I can assure you that your thoughts will be shared with the rest of the team, and that we are certainly considering all of our options at this present time. We will communicate our actions to you in further updates; which we aim to send out every two weeks, or more frequently on occasion."So they have confirmed that they did indeed only mean this in regard to while the Liquidity Event is still on-going, leaving open the possibility of attempting a revised system when/if the Liquidity Event is lifted.
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Post by drphil on Apr 27, 2020 16:03:47 GMT
Thanks Chris.
They can’t make wholesale alterations to the operating process but hopefully they can make changes to Term 7.7 during the Liquidity Event. Otherwise they are contractually bound to declare a Resolution Event if ‘normal operation’ is not restored within 90 days (Such a restoration seems unlikely IMO).
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Apr 27, 2020 17:45:11 GMT
Thanks Chris.
They can’t make wholesale alterations to the operating process but hopefully they can make changes to Term 7.7 during the Liquidity Event. Otherwise they are contractually bound to declare a Resolution Event if ‘normal operation’ is not restored within 90 days (Such a restoration seems unlikely IMO). Hmmm I'm not quite so pessimistic. Clause 7.7 doesn't bind them to anything particularly strict per se - it just says that if they can't 'remedy' the Liquidity Event they will declare a Resolution Event. I think they can define 'remedy' pretty broadly here just to mean that if it's possible to continue on, they will. For me, that 'remedy' would likely have to be some structural change to the withdrawal process, as outlined above. This could even happen right now as there is over 5% liquidity.
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Post by drphil on May 1, 2020 14:15:24 GMT
New update just emailed.
More meat than previous ones, though I'm not sure it gives us much more hope
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on May 1, 2020 14:23:43 GMT
I'm pretty happy with the email - they're obviously doing a lot of work in the background to try to sort this out, with lots of different options being looked at. Particularly interesting, I thought, was that they're exploring selling the entire loan book!
On another note, I've realised that, as they wind down the loan-book more and more (if they continue to do so), there's going to be an increasing proportion of lenders who, completely fortuitously, get all their money out if a Resolution Event is called.
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alender
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Post by alender on May 1, 2020 15:39:32 GMT
This email looks more positive than previous comminations.
The problem seems to be the inability to change anything during the Liquidity event and then only implement changes 14 days after retuning to normal operations which would mean lenders can get about half their money out before withdrawals could be restricted.
From what I have I read there may be a case to change the terms where there is no deterrent to the lenders. If this is the case then GS could start to pay interest and perhaps a restricted repayments as the alternative is a complete lock down or a resolution event, this would help with lender confidence however this may be a too simplistic view.
If GS stay relativity healthy and we stay in this situation the interest rate paid will reduce as more funds pile up in the queue for reinvestment, this is rising and is now £1,210,132 but it did rise to over £1m before so may be related to cycle of when funds arrive and loans taken out. However this another reason to pay some money back to the lenders if it does not impact the financial health of GS.
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Post by garreh on May 1, 2020 17:09:51 GMT
On another note, I've realised that, as they wind down the loan-book more and more (if they continue to do so), there's going to be an increasing proportion of lenders who, completely fortuitously, get all their money out if a Resolution Event is called. Can you clarify why this would be the case? My understanding is the Resolution Event aims to evenly distribute repayments to lenders - sounds like you think as loans are repaid whomever was invested in those loans would get that money back instantly. I thought that money would just be split amongst all investors and paid out quarterly? If that's not the case, it does seem pretty unfair and totally against the spirit and intent of what the Resolution Event aims to do.
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on May 1, 2020 17:14:33 GMT
On another note, I've realised that, as they wind down the loan-book more and more (if they continue to do so), there's going to be an increasing proportion of lenders who, completely fortuitously, get all their money out if a Resolution Event is called. Can you clarify why this would be the case? My understanding is the Resolution Event aims to evenly distribute repayments to lenders - sounds like you think as loans are repaid whomever was invested in those loans would get that money back instantly. I thought that money would just be split amongst all investors and paid out quarterly? If that's not the case, it does seem pretty unfair and totally against the spirit and intent of what the Resolution Event aims to do. It's a little different. Let's imagine that on the day the Resolution Event is called, there is 90% utilisation of lender funds. That means 10% of lender funds will be sitting 'on market', uninvested in any loan. According to the GS T&C - and, understandably so - these funds would be released from the market and would be available for withdrawal. The lenders who get the benefit of this will be at random, depending on your date of reinvestment and the date on which the Resolution Event is called. But the lower the utilisation rate is (due to a winding down of the loan-book), the higher the number of lenders that will benefit from this.
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withnell
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Post by withnell on May 11, 2020 8:42:58 GMT
Utilisation hitting 90% this morning, so moving in the right direction!
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on May 11, 2020 8:46:49 GMT
Utilisation hitting 90% this morning, so moving in the right direction! Indeed, although I'm now rather unsure what I want out of this! If they can avoid a Resolution Event, then great. If they can't, most of us are going to be left with the loans that couldn't repay
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Mucho P2P
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Post by Mucho P2P on May 11, 2020 20:05:24 GMT
Utilisation hitting 90% this morning, so moving in the right direction! Indeed, although I'm now rather unsure what I want out of this! If they can avoid a Resolution Event, then great. If they can't, most of us are going to be left with the loans that couldn't repay Bearing in mind their salaries are most likely not affected by the liquidity event! I have enquired as to whether any of their staff/Directors are taking a salary cut to assist their borrowers, or its only the lenders that have to suffer, as yet, no response!! Not impressed at all, we take a hit, and the Directors prefer to stay quiet and ignore my query.
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Post by garreh on May 12, 2020 23:36:39 GMT
Utilisation hitting 90% this morning, so moving in the right direction! Indeed, although I'm now rather unsure what I want out of this! If they can avoid a Resolution Event, then great. If they can't, most of us are going to be left with the loans that couldn't repay Why would that be the case?
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on May 13, 2020 8:34:51 GMT
Indeed, although I'm now rather unsure what I want out of this! If they can avoid a Resolution Event, then great. If they can't, most of us are going to be left with the loans that couldn't repay Why would that be the case? Well it's just the logical extension of my last response to you above. If (and only if) there is a Resolution Event (RE), a lucky few lenders will not have their funds invested when the RE is called and so will get a 100% return. This will be made up of money that some borrowers have repaid (reducing the deployment rate); but it will only be borrowers that can repay that do, and this money would have been helpful for the majority of lenders who don't get a 100% return. Here is an overly simplified example: - Let's assume that total lending is £10m, made up of 10 borrowers each borrowing £1m. - Of these 10 borrowers, half are in a good financial position and could repay/re-finance if they needed to (100% return, no haircut for lenders), while the other half of borrowers are in a worse financial position such that they can't repay/re-finance and there would be an average 50% capital haircut for lenders in the event of enforcing the loan. - Let's also assume that all lenders are lending an equal amount. Scenario 1When the RE is called, the deployment rate has reached 80% because over the course of the Liquidity Event (LE), two borrowers have been able to repay/re-finance. By definition these are borrowers who were in a financial position to be able to do so. This means that 20% of lenders get 100% of their money out. The remaining 80% are left with five borrowers in poor finance (50% haircut) and three borrowers in good finance (no haircut). So, out of £8m capital, only £5.5m is repaid (roughly 68% of capital) to the remaining lenders. Result = 20% of lenders get a 100% return; 80% of lenders get a 68% return. Scenario 2When the RE is called, there has been no material reduction in lending, and the deployment rate is still close to 100% (let's assume, just for simplicity in this example, that it's exactly 100%). In this case, all lenders are invested when the RE is called, so no one gets out with 100% capital. All 10 borrowers are also still around, with five of them repaying in full and five resulting in a 50% haircut - as above. This gives an average of 75% return for all lenders. Result = 100% of lenders get a 75% return. Clearly, the lower the deployment rate goes, the more pronounced the difference between the two scenarios becomes (although obviously it's a little more complicated than this in reality). Essentially, if you're not one of the lucky few who gets a 100% return by not being invested at the time the RE is called, you probably don't want the borrowers in a good financial position to be repaying/re-financing until after the RE is called. Again, this is only if an RE is called. We hope that it won't be! Hope that makes sense now... took longer to write out than I'd imagined...!!
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Post by garreh on May 13, 2020 13:37:56 GMT
Woah thanks for the extensive scenarioes and breakdowns! It still seems so odd to me that once a Resolution Event is called all uninvested money is returned back to those *specifically* who haven't got their money matched - it would seem logical to me that money is shared evenly amongst all investors, regardless of what loans you're invested into. That would also be the fairest way to do it and essentially lead more like scenario 2 in your example.
Being a "lucky one" is totally against the spirirt of what a Resolution Event aims to do which is to share repayments and losses *evenly* amongst investors.
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Post by garreh on May 13, 2020 13:39:18 GMT
Are you certain that's what would happen in a Resolution Event, is that based on the terms?
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