one21
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Post by one21 on Apr 2, 2020 0:16:10 GMT
Who said God is punishing us with Corona virus, wasn't it mans doing? It was the main speaker in the broadcast talk that said so. EDIT: To be fair he didn't say God sent it to "punish" us, he said that God sent the Corna virus to "wake us up". No he said it might wake us upbut he didn't say God sent it.
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Post by Ace on Apr 2, 2020 0:19:17 GMT
It was the main speaker in the broadcast talk that said so. EDIT: To be fair he didn't say God sent it to "punish" us, he said that God sent the Corna virus to "wake us up". No he said it might wake us upbut he didn't say God sent it. Yes he did. He said it was sent to wake us up, not that it might wake us up.
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Post by bernythedolt on Apr 2, 2020 2:38:16 GMT
The bible is riddled with contradictions, so what chance do churches have? "An eye for an eye"... but "thou shalt not kill", etc. Confusing the Old Testament with the New Testament but I'm no expert ask xell. Aren't both meant to be the word of God though? So they shouldn't really contradict if their message is intended for a simple, easily confused mortal like me. That's far from the only example too.
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one21
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Post by one21 on Apr 2, 2020 8:20:50 GMT
I tuned in also and didn’t hear anything which would justify such a negative response. If this criticism was aimed at another certain religion there would be rioting in the streets. Also, wasn’t it established that covid 19 was caused by unhygienic practices in China. It stands to reason that if we have custody of the world and we trash it then it’s us who are to blame and suffer the consequences. As far as I’m concerned it’s simple you either believe or you don’t. If you do there’s a wondrous place when you leave this mortal coil, if you don’t then it’s wherever your imagination takes you. If you'd care to say exactly which part of the criticism you feel it's unjustified I'd be happy to relisten and quote the exact words that justify that criticism. As the general tone of your response is critical, I do not focus on any particular part. You are free to believe or not in an omnipotent being.Those who do believe, are offering help & explanations from the Bible in this situation. I did not detect a bullying tone in the speaker's delivery.
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one21
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Post by one21 on Apr 2, 2020 8:28:51 GMT
Confusing the Old Testament with the New Testament but I'm no expert ask xell. Aren't both meant to be the word of God though? So they shouldn't really contradict if their message is intended for a simple, easily confused mortal like me. That's far from the only example too. As I say I'm no expert I just try to follow Christian principles and apparently many of our laws are based upon. Christians follow New Testament guidance which should less complicate at least.
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one21
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Post by one21 on Apr 2, 2020 8:50:53 GMT
No he said it might wake us upbut he didn't say God sent it. Yes he did. He said it was sent to wake us up, not that it might wake us up. Yes but arn't most catastrophies caused by mans behaviour eg throwing sewage in the streets causing the Great Plauge of London.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 9:12:47 GMT
The bible is riddled with contradictions, so what chance do churches have? "An eye for an eye"... but "thou shalt not kill", etc. Nah, old testament, new testament.
The church has a history of crazy loons who try to mix up the scriptures and America/UK has a whole load of sects who do the same at the moment. The message of the New Testament is pretty consistent as you would expect from a book edited by a Roman Emperor in a massive conclave after which those who did not agree with the re-writing were burnt to death.
Hence, I can believe in God but no I don't trust (or believe in) churches.
BTW I think the title should end.... believe in Him? As a capital is required for a god God.
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Post by Ace on Apr 2, 2020 9:34:59 GMT
Yes he did. He said it was sent to wake us up, not that it might wake us up. Yes but arn't most catastrophies caused by mans behaviour eg throwing sewage in the streets causing the Great Plauge of London. Many are, but is not relevant to the specific issue that we are discussing, which was that the speaker told us that God sent the virus to wake us up. A thinly veiled threat that if we don't turn to God we will be eternally damned. Specifically, I refer you to 1 hour, 1 minute and 30 seconds into the recording where he says "One reason that Corona Virus is here it's to wake us up, to bring us to our senses". It's not me that's saying this, it's the speaker. If you think he's wrong you would need to take it up with him. I certainly don't believe that God sent the virus. I couldn't possibly given that I don't believe God exists, at least not the one being described in the broadcast or any religious text. What we can say as a logical fact is that, of the numerous contradictory religions, at most only one of them can be right.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Apr 2, 2020 10:17:51 GMT
The bible is riddled with contradictions, so what chance do churches have? "An eye for an eye"... but "thou shalt not kill", etc. Nah, old testament, new testament. Hence, I can believe in God but no I don't trust (or believe in) churches. BTW I think the title should end.... believe in Him? As a capital is required for a god God.
On the latter - I did think about that! In fact it's a relatively recent convention to capitalise the pronoun for God, I don't know how important it is (probably not very), I hope it's not offensive to anyone. On the former - what an excellent observation. Humans do not miraculously stop sinning when they become Christians (either alone or as part of a group called church), and so the human institutions of the various churches are all to be rightly doubted in some way. The Bible is the only authority for Christians, certainly not the CofE or RC church or any other group of people. No group of Christians will have it all correct, and some will be so far off the mark as to be likely not Christians at all. OTOH, God works through the church and, although flawed (as we all are), it is nevertheless a key component of Christianity. WRT the "old" & "new" Testament - I recommend reading a Gospel, thinking about who Jesus is and what He (or he) does, then heading somewhere like Isaiah 40 which is (partially) quoted in whatever your chosen Gospel happens to be. It does appear contradictory when quotations are taken without proper context - in this case the context is essentially the entire Bible narrative (e.g WHY does the Bible say an eye for an eye in the first place? WHY does the command apparently change from old to new? What causes the difference, has anything changed?) so it would take rather a long time to explain here, and I would not be able to do it justice. Don't think forum posts are ideal but anyone who really wants to know more I would be happy to meet up with in London and go through some of these good questions. PS on the virus issue - Christians believe God is sovereign over everything. Including whatever the issue of today may be for you: virus, winning the lottery, or feeling the sun on your face, everything (even when writing that God doesn't exist on a forum)! God's motive is not always clear to us, but (again) if humans did fully understand everything that happens we'd be equal with God and there would be no need to be Christians
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one21
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Post by one21 on Apr 2, 2020 10:41:58 GMT
Yes but arn't most catastrophies caused by mans behaviour eg throwing sewage in the streets causing the Great Plauge of London. Many are, but is not relevant to the specific issue that we are discussing, which was that the speaker told us that God sent the virus to wake us up. A thinly veiled threat that if we don't turn to God we will be eternally damned. Specifically, I refer you to 1 hour, 1 minute and 30 seconds into the recording where he says "One reason that Corona Virus is here it's to wake us up, to bring us to our senses". It's not me that's saying this, it's the speaker. If you think he's wrong you would need to take it up with him. I certainly don't believe that God sent the virus. I couldn't possibly given that I don't believe God exists, at least not the one being described in the broadcast or any religious text. What we can say as a logical fact is that, of the numerous contradictory religions, at most only one of them can be right. 1 hour, 30 seconds he is just going with the question.... "Lots could be said, most of it is I don't know, I can’t read what is happening". In other words he doesn’t know if it was sent by God - but isn't it obvious that this is only one of thousands of diseases around the world caused by mans behaviour. Heart disease - wrong diet, obesity - diabetes on and on why be pedantic about it this particular disease Its uncanny that the Bubonic Plauge was spread by fleas on black rats, carried by trade ships from the oriental. Our domestic brown rats eventually wiped them out.
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Post by Ace on Apr 2, 2020 11:04:30 GMT
Many are, but is not relevant to the specific issue that we are discussing, which was that the speaker told us that God sent the virus to wake us up. A thinly veiled threat that if we don't turn to God we will be eternally damned. Specifically, I refer you to 1 hour, 1 minute and 30 seconds into the recording where he says "One reason that Corona Virus is here it's to wake us up, to bring us to our senses". It's not me that's saying this, it's the speaker. If you think he's wrong you would need to take it up with him. I certainly don't believe that God sent the virus. I couldn't possibly given that I don't believe God exists, at least not the one being described in the broadcast or any religious text. What we can say as a logical fact is that, of the numerous contradictory religions, at most only one of them can be right. 1 hour, 30 seconds he is just going with the question.... "Lots could be said, most of it is I don't know, I can’t read what is happening". In other words he doesn’t know if it was sent by God - but isn't it obvious that this is only one of thousands of diseases around the world caused by mans behaviour. Heart disease - wrong diet, obesity - diabetes on and on why be pedantic about it this particular disease Its uncanny that the Bubonic Plauge was spread by fleas on black rats, carried by trade ships from the oriental. Our domestic brown rats eventually wiped them out. This is analogous to the standard tactic employed by those who wish to persuade us of the meaning behind religious texts. Claiming that a clear statement can be ignored because some other general statement elsewhere can be taken as a let-off. I have no desire to dissuade you from your belief in God if you find comfort in it, as long as it's not used to persecute those that don't believe. I do however caution you against believing in any man's interpretation of some ancient text, written by men long after the supposed events took place and repeatedly interpreted and translated over many years. Been there. Got the t-shirt. Probably best I leave it there. Have a good day.
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Post by bernythedolt on Apr 2, 2020 11:13:55 GMT
Aren't both meant to be the word of God though? So they shouldn't really contradict if their message is intended for a simple, easily confused mortal like me. That's far from the only example too. As I say I'm no expert I just try to follow Christian principles and apparently many of our laws are based upon. Christians follow New Testament guidance which should less complicate at least. Try to follow Christian principles - same here. But in my experience Christians revere both testaments - you only have to listen how many church readings come from Isaiah, Proverbs, Psalms...
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Apr 2, 2020 11:19:06 GMT
I've been a member of this forum for many years, but I never dreamt in my wildest dreams that it would ever descend to "seriously" discussing this great pile of old TOSH
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Post by bernythedolt on Apr 2, 2020 11:23:04 GMT
Who said God is punishing us with Corona virus, wasn't it mans doing? It was the main speaker in the broadcast talk that said so. EDIT: To be fair he didn't say God sent it to "punish" us, he said that God sent the Corna virus to "wake us up". And that was a big surprise to me, because in my previous exposure to religion (my mother became a Jehovah's Witness - I didn't, but I was dragged along to meetings and bible studies), and in CofE liturgy, these kind of things were always blamed on Satan, which is at least slightly easier to rationalise. I found it odd that he wasn't mentioned once in this hour long broadcast.
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one21
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Post by one21 on Apr 2, 2020 11:33:23 GMT
As I say I'm no expert I just try to follow Christian principles and apparently many of our laws are based upon. Christians follow New Testament guidance which should less complicate at least. Try to follow Christian principles - same here. But in my experience Christians revere both testaments - you only have to listen how many church readings come from Isaiah, Proverbs, Psalms... I wouldn't know haven’t been to many but I would expect there's always or should be a caveat that we live by the words of the New Testament though.
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