alanh
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Post by alanh on Mar 31, 2020 13:11:43 GMT
You are not leaving any individual loans but an equal spread of loans like the rest of us. Thats why previously for many years it worked well.. You can withdraw all from the access accounts but because of ABNORMAL MARKET CONDITIONS this is taking time the same as the rest of us. Well explained in the blog saying that if some big lenders were able to withdraw ball it would clog up the system. Apart from allowing all small lenders to exit with 100% of their investment (which is great for them), can you name any other benefit to anyone of this misappropriation of large investors cash? Large investors have deep pockets and tend to sue in situations like this Selective treatment of investors leads to Assetz become labelled as an untrustworthy platform, investment inflows dry up to nothing as investors choose to put their money elsewhere Evaporating trust and lack of inflows has been a characteristic of all failed platforms What exactly is this great benefit that you see in the current situation, apart from the clearly self evident fact that you don't have much money invested?
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 31, 2020 13:13:16 GMT
It's a fair point, I do not know what the legal situation is...I am aware that a Lendy borrower tried to sue borrowers for not funding money that Lendy said they would. That isn't my point though. My point is, what happens to the half of your money that is invested in development loans? Are you happy just to write it off? If AC can't fund future commitments then I expect that our investments in these dev loans will be worth zero. The borrower would have good claim not to pay anything back and we certainly couldn't enforce security. I want my money back too but I do not want AC to default on loans that half my money is invested in. That would be a disaster. Again I accept your premise but not your conclusion that this somehow makes it my responsibility rather than Assetz's.
The Lendy borrower in question tried to join all the lenders to the claim on the basis that we had individually made commitments to continue funding which was not the case. Whether Lendy had made commitments is another matter.
OK but leaving the commitments issue behind, if AC can't fund the future dev commitments what do you think happens to our investments in these loans? I would imagine we would lose the majority if not all of them but happy to hear your opinion.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 31, 2020 13:17:12 GMT
Again we're not talking about funds already lent in loans. We're talking about the uninvested cash that is generated when those loans redeem. I'm talking about the 4 figure sum that is sitting in my QAA not invested in any loan. Sitting as cash. I'm talking about the cash element of the Access accounts which is currently £9.3m in cash.
I do not want my cash to be reinvested in future projects. Assetz seem to be changing the T+C's to allow them to do so which is unlawful. Have you done anything outside of this forum to try to make AC change this, e.g. initiate legal action, make formal complaint to AC and/or the regulator?
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mrsb
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Post by mrsb on Mar 31, 2020 13:18:22 GMT
If future commitments are £100M, then aren't they screwed already?
I'm currently leaving my free cash (£200 so far!) on the platform - should I be withdrawing it every time it gets above a tenner - to prevent it being grabbed.
Interest day tomorrow, me thinks I should bank it.
EDIT - It would be handy if AC broke cover and made an explicit commitment to not grab cash!
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 31, 2020 13:23:35 GMT
If future commitments are £100M, then aren't they screwed already? I'm currently leaving my free cash (£200 so far!) on the platform - should I be withdrawing it every time it gets above a tenner - to prevent it being grabbed. Interest day tomorrow, me thinks I should bank it. I don't think so, they do have other potential funding sources (institutions, the £15m they just got from British Business Investments, underwriters etc). I wouldn't worry about leaving cash in your cash account. It is held in a segregated client account that AC can't touch. The £100m I calculated by subtracting Principal Remaining from Total Facility for all loans. That's £100m. It is however likely to be lower than this as some loans will be in the process of being paid down (as properties are sold etc) or the total facility may not be needed. In fact it is likely substantially lower, I will amend my post.
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mrsb
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Post by mrsb on Mar 31, 2020 13:26:12 GMT
Can't touch because their hands are firmly tied - or can't touch per the current instance of the T&C's ?
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Mar 31, 2020 13:28:28 GMT
If future commitments are £100M, then aren't they screwed already? I'm currently leaving my free cash (£200 so far!) on the platform - should I be withdrawing it every time it gets above a tenner - to prevent it being grabbed. Interest day tomorrow, me thinks I should bank it. I don't think so, they do have other potential funding sources (institutions, the £15m they just got from British Business Investments, underwriters etc). I wouldn't worry about leaving cash in your cash account. It is held in a segregated client account that AC can't touch. The £100m I calculated by subtracting Principal Remaining from Total Facility for all loans. That's £100m. It is however likely to be lower than this as some loans will be in the process of being paid down (as properties are sold etc) or the total facility may not be needed. In fact it is likely substantially lower, I will amend my post. Whilst that money may be in a segregated account, if Assetz go into administration you are unlikely to be able to get hold of it very quickly as we have seen in the cases of other platform failures.
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 31, 2020 13:29:28 GMT
OK but leaving the commitments issue behind, if AC can't fund the future dev commitments (which I calculate to be around £100m) what do you think happens to our investments in these loans? I would imagine we would lose the majority if not all of them but happy to hear your opinion. Assetz will have no doubt seen the issues that faced Lendy when they failed to continue lending and should have made contingency plans. Eg as we approached the threat of a no deal brexit last year. Plans could have included raising the entire value of the loan and only releasing it on a tranche by tranche basis. It would be surprising if they hadn't considered this.
Another option would be increasing the interest rate at the sacrifice of the platform fees. Have you done anything outside of this forum to try to make AC change this, e.g. initiate legal action, make formal complaint to AC and/or the regulator? Of course. Typically those actions have been done first prior to posting here.
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Mikeme
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Post by Mikeme on Mar 31, 2020 13:31:27 GMT
You are not leaving any individual loans but an equal spread of loans like the rest of us. Thats why previously for many years it worked well.. You can withdraw all from the access accounts but because of ABNORMAL MARKET CONDITIONS this is taking time the same as the rest of us. Well explained in the blog saying that if some big lenders were able to withdraw ball it would clog up the system. Apart from allowing all small lenders to exit with 100% of their investment (which is great for them), can you name any other benefit to anyone of this misappropriation of large investors cash? Large investors have deep pockets and tend to sue in situations like this. NOT ME Selective treatment of investors leads to Assetz become labelled as an untrustworthy platform, investment inflows dry up to nothing as investors choose to put their money elsewhere NOT ME Evaporating trust and lack of inflows has been a characteristic of all failed platforms NOT ME What exactly is this great benefit that you see in the current situation, apart from the clearly self evident fact that you don't have much money invested? Simple AC fails Administrators are appointed at huge cost. Assets are sold to the waiting vultures. Honourable borrowers are thrown to the vultures.
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alibaba
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Post by alibaba on Mar 31, 2020 13:35:10 GMT
Isn't that exactly what is happening?
Also note the use of the term should not will
It is being paid out. So sorry that you want a bigger amount than IMO AC have rightly decided to pay in equal amounts to all lenders. I would be interested to know if anyone has received any pay out since the 12 th of March I requested a withdrawal of 20k on the 12th (before any statement was made) and I have not received a penny.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Mar 31, 2020 13:35:11 GMT
Apart from allowing all small lenders to exit with 100% of their investment (which is great for them), can you name any other benefit to anyone of this misappropriation of large investors cash? Large investors have deep pockets and tend to sue in situations like this. NOT ME Selective treatment of investors leads to Assetz become labelled as an untrustworthy platform, investment inflows dry up to nothing as investors choose to put their money elsewhere NOT ME Evaporating trust and lack of inflows has been a characteristic of all failed platforms NOT ME What exactly is this great benefit that you see in the current situation, apart from the clearly self evident fact that you don't have much money invested? Simple AC fails Administrators are appointed at huge cost. Assets are sold to the waiting vultures. Honourable borrowers are thrown to the vultures. Well yes that is the natural conclusion but I would hardly call it a "benefit"?
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 31, 2020 13:40:17 GMT
Simple AC fails Administrators are appointed at huge cost. Assets are sold to the waiting vultures. Honourable borrowers are thrown to the vultures. Well yes that is the natural conclusion but I would hardly call it a "benefit"? And would have happened in any case irrespective of the changing of the terms and conditions. Which as alanh describes comes with a whole raft of disadvantages only making things worse.
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 31, 2020 13:44:42 GMT
I don't think so, they do have other potential funding sources (institutions, the £15m they just got from British Business Investments, underwriters etc). I wouldn't worry about leaving cash in your cash account. It is held in a segregated client account that AC can't touch. The £100m I calculated by subtracting Principal Remaining from Total Facility for all loans. That's £100m. It is however likely to be lower than this as some loans will be in the process of being paid down (as properties are sold etc) or the total facility may not be needed. In fact it is likely substantially lower, I will amend my post. Whilst that money may be in a segregated account, if Assetz go into administration you are unlikely to be able to get hold of it very quickly as we have seen in the cases of other platform failures. True but AC are not on the cusp of going into administration.
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 31, 2020 13:46:59 GMT
OK but leaving the commitments issue behind, if AC can't fund the future dev commitments (which I calculate to be around £100m) what do you think happens to our investments in these loans? I would imagine we would lose the majority if not all of them but happy to hear your opinion. Assetz will have no doubt seen the issues that faced Lendy when they failed to continue lending and should have made contingency plans. Eg as we approached the threat of a no deal brexit last year. Plans could have included raising the entire value of the loan and only releasing it on a tranche by tranche basis. It would be surprising if they hadn't considered this.
Another option would be increasing the interest rate at the sacrifice of the platform fees. But on loans that require further funding they have not done this. It's all well and good saying AC should have done things differently but that doesn't help anyone and its our money that is invested, its our money on the line.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Mar 31, 2020 13:52:40 GMT
Another thread to bang on about the same thing.
It isn't changing, wait for your withdrawal and there we go.
As for the uninvested cash, the figure that is cash in the account is not a large amount; it be paid out to investors would be seriously dangerous to those who are not panicing and waving arms around wanting to run away from a investment they never understood in the first place. If it were paid out, you would get most likely 3.9% if your investment at best. Then the rest of your investments will be worthless because the platform will topple unable to pay lenders interest, unable to fufill contracts and drawdown new loans in the future.
Not rocket science.
That cash is ear marked for drawdowns, to cover what will likely be shortfall for failed target interest rate in the access accounts over the next few months additionally.
I cannot fathom that people are seriously making threads now to complain about abnormal market conditions require a adaptive response from AC. Yes, I'm not exactly thrilled about my 4.1% liquid investment when I made it now being illquid greatly reducing its value. But I'm certainly not going to shoot myself in the foot by just repeating the same things again and again on a online board.
AC will pull though, or they won't and you will lose all your capital and all your complaining reguardless will have been invain. Just sit on your investment and await for the payouts that are coming though slowly, eventually the system will be switched to a que and then entirely back to normal conditions. If it doesn't, then your investments is gone. Thats how it is, those are the risks.
I'm expecting the peer to peer market to be in this state for at least 12 months, so you have alot of complaining ahead of you, hope your ready.
Qoute with whatever remark I won't be replying back into a argument.
Mods should probs remove this, as its just a anger thread, being a echo chamber between the same members on this board, who reply on every thread wheather its related to the OP topic or not.
Maybe we can keep the echo contained to here.
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