Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 17, 2021 8:20:56 GMT
How many losses were there on most of the failed platforms before they failed? Very, very few and in some cases none. It is in the nature of "p2p" loans that losses typically take years before they are crystallised. Since this platform isn't p2p we may not even know if a loan had defaulted unless we're told. This is one of many reasons why I feel the FCA needs to define a minimum set of information that needs to be disclosed to investors. They have. COBS 18.12 but Somo isn't covered by those rules Actually there were lots of allowable losses on the P2P platforms before they failed. A loss doesn't have to have crystallised to qualify under HMRC rules. The main differences with Somo are that loans are individual loans (not multi tranche developments), secured against property with verifiable valuations (on Zoopla etc) at (what seem to me) sensible LTVs. Some loans may not pay back all the capital if a property sells well below the valuation in the event of default, and there may be a fraudulent loan that escapes scrutiny for some reason, but I would expect to at least get my capital back on most loans. Some borrowers like to play games and drag out paying back, there is one you could write a soap opera about (with yet another couple of appeals in court soon), but in my experience Somo pursue them to the bitter end. Somo is also profitable. Each lender has their own criteria of what is important in deciding whether to invest in a particular platform and Somo would not suit someone for whom FCA P2P authorisation, or the ability to offset losses are crucial. As always do your own DD.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 17, 2021 8:32:57 GMT
I think you have four years after write off to offset against tax, and of course you need profitable 'real' P2P sites to offset against, if you have hefty losses you will need hefty gains somewhere else, I wouldn't know where to suggest. So far there are no losses on Somo (touch wood) and I would think the last thing you need is more allowable losses to offset! How many losses were there on most of the failed platforms before they failed? Very, very few and in some cases none. It is in the nature of "p2p" loans that losses typically take years before they are crystallised. Since this platform isn't p2p we may not even know if a loan had defaulted unless we're told. This is one of many reasons why I feel the FCA needs to define a minimum set of information that needs to be disclosed to investors. But we are told, loan updates give details of loans that are falling behind and you can see on your account if a loan runs past it's final payment date. We also see very obviously when properties are re-possessed and sold.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 17, 2021 13:43:13 GMT
How many losses were there on most of the failed platforms before they failed? Very, very few and in some cases none. It is in the nature of "p2p" loans that losses typically take years before they are crystallised. Since this platform isn't p2p we may not even know if a loan had defaulted unless we're told. This is one of many reasons why I feel the FCA needs to define a minimum set of information that needs to be disclosed to investors. They have. COBS 18.12 but Somo isn't covered by those rules Actually there were lots of allowable losses on the P2P platforms before they failed. A loss doesn't have to have crystallised to qualify under HMRC rules. I recall many very, very late (years) loans on FS but the number that the platform had stated were total loses or even defaults was close to zero. adrian77 perhaps you can confirm ? The tax treatment (if that is what cobs 18.12 is) is something else. COL also seemed to have virtually none before the plug was pulled very abruptly. Ditto Lendy. There were perhaps one or two high profile cases but they represented a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall loanbooks. It was certainly not the case that the platforms above admitted to suffering significant loanbook defaults. It is that admission as part of a genuine transparency that needs to change.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 17, 2021 13:53:19 GMT
How many losses were there on most of the failed platforms before they failed? Very, very few and in some cases none. It is in the nature of "p2p" loans that losses typically take years before they are crystallised. Since this platform isn't p2p we may not even know if a loan had defaulted unless we're told. This is one of many reasons why I feel the FCA needs to define a minimum set of information that needs to be disclosed to investors. But we are told, loan updates give details of loans that are falling behind and you can see on your account if a loan runs past it's final payment date. We also see very obviously when properties are re-possessed and sold. And what about the ones that all pay back on time? How do you know they haven't defaulted? As for updates. Yes, all the platforms have updates where the platform can write what they like. FS had updates - were they helpful to you? What about L or COL ? In this case I have just one loan left where apparently the security is being repossessed. Despite the recent minor flurry of court activity I am unable to find a record of the repossession hearing. My best guess is the legal action has been delayed another month or two whilst the first set of actions are dealt with to keep the costs fluid and manageable. I would be ok with that if I knew, but there is nothing about that in the updates (it may not be true of course - its just a guess but I simply don't know and that is my point). I can't understand why folk are happy at the limited amount of information we currently get. Instead of bickering, if we were a little more united we might get more out of the FCA in terms of what we want to see going forwards to bring us back to the investment table.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Mar 17, 2021 14:05:51 GMT
But we are told, loan updates give details of loans that are falling behind and you can see on your account if a loan runs past it's final payment date. We also see very obviously when properties are re-possessed and sold. And what about the ones that all pay back on time? How do you know they haven't defaulted? As for updates. Yes, all the platforms have updates where the platform can write what they like. FS had updates - were they helpful to you? What about L or COL ? In this case I have just one loan left where apparently the security is being repossessed. Despite the recent minor flurry of court activity I am unable to find a record of the repossession hearing. My best guess is the legal action has been delayed another month or two whilst the first set of actions are dealt with to keep the costs fluid and manageable. I would be ok with that if I knew, but there is nothing about that in the updates (it may not be true of course - its just a guess but I simply don't know and that is my point). I can't understand why folk are happy at the limited amount of information we currently get. Instead of bickering, if we were a little more united we might get more out of the FCA in terms of what we want to see going forwards to bring us back to the investment table. This: If there's something missing from a update that I think is pertinent, I ask the question directly of the platform. SoMo are typically very good at responding although, occasionally, a nudge might be required. This: Maybe you could initiate the discussion? Start a thread in the General P2P Chat area and seed the conversation by outlining your own thoughts / requirements?
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Mar 17, 2021 14:16:18 GMT
They have. COBS 18.12 but Somo isn't covered by those rules Actually there were lots of allowable losses on the P2P platforms before they failed. A loss doesn't have to have crystallised to qualify under HMRC rules. I recall many very, very late (years) loans on FS but the number that the platform had stated were total loses or even defaults was close to zero. <snip> This post was real eye opener for me: old (FS) regime: Pawn defaults were 7% by value, new (FCA) regime and that 7% grows to 69%. FS threw in the towel just before the FCA reporting requirements came into effect and I doubt that was a coincidence.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 17, 2021 14:38:18 GMT
They have. COBS 18.12 but Somo isn't covered by those rules Actually there were lots of allowable losses on the P2P platforms before they failed. A loss doesn't have to have crystallised to qualify under HMRC rules. I recall many very, very late (years) loans on FS but the number that the platform had stated were total loses or even defaults was close to zero. adrian77 perhaps you can confirm ? The tax treatment (if that is what cobs 18.12 is) is something else. COL also seemed to have virtually none before the plug was pulled very abruptly. Ditto Lendy. There were perhaps one or two high profile cases but they represented a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall loanbooks. It was certainly not the case that the platforms above admitted to suffering significant loanbook defaults. It is that admission as part of a genuine transparency that needs to change. COBS 18.12 is a section of FCA regulation specifically relating to P2P lending, nothing to do with tax which is HMRC not FCA, and includes various clauses on disclosure required by platforms, risk, loan details, PF, winddown and whether the loan has defaulted. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by 'how many losses were there on most of the failed platforms before they failed'. Perhaps you meant how many declared losses were there which is a somewhat different question? Funding Secure had certainly declared anything that met HMRC criteria but as they were slow to put loans into recovery many didnt, MT had declared all defaults as losses, Lendy, despite having about 75% qualifying, had declared 2, Collateral hadnt had any losses.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 17, 2021 15:01:19 GMT
But we are told, loan updates give details of loans that are falling behind and you can see on your account if a loan runs past it's final payment date. We also see very obviously when properties are re-possessed and sold. And what about the ones that all pay back on time? How do you know they haven't defaulted?
As for updates. Yes, all the platforms have updates where the platform can write what they like. FS had updates - were they helpful to you? What about L or COL ? In this case I have just one loan left where apparently the security is being repossessed. Despite the recent minor flurry of court activity I am unable to find a record of the repossession hearing. My best guess is the legal action has been delayed another month or two whilst the first set of actions are dealt with to keep the costs fluid and manageable. I would be ok with that if I knew, but there is nothing about that in the updates (it may not be true of course - its just a guess but I simply don't know and that is my point). I can't understand why folk are happy at the limited amount of information we currently get. Instead of bickering, if we were a little more united we might get more out of the FCA in terms of what we want to see going forwards to bring us back to the investment table. Just maybe because they paid back on time. Do you really think Somo would lie about all the loans paying back and presumably take all the losses themselves? Doesn't sound like much of a business model to me. And if that was the case why let any over run? And why do we see them chasing borrowers through the courts? Out of interest which loan is it that you are particularly concerned about (loan number)? Curious if I have it and if so what information I may have, I do follow up on my late loans a bit. If you think the FCA should force P2P platforms to give more information or verify the accuracy of information provided it would be much more appropriate to discuss it on a general P2P thread or on the individual 'actual' P2P platform threads, Somo is not a P2P platform and is not authorised for P2P lending by the FCA. It is also a small player so burying your comments here will not reach many lenders or the main platform reps. So far I am happy with the information provided by Somo, and their updates are informative unlike some platforms. And as said above if you want more information on a specific loan ask.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 17, 2021 15:25:29 GMT
And what about the ones that all pay back on time? How do you know they haven't defaulted?
As for updates. Yes, all the platforms have updates where the platform can write what they like. FS had updates - were they helpful to you? What about L or COL ? In this case I have just one loan left where apparently the security is being repossessed. Despite the recent minor flurry of court activity I am unable to find a record of the repossession hearing. My best guess is the legal action has been delayed another month or two whilst the first set of actions are dealt with to keep the costs fluid and manageable. I would be ok with that if I knew, but there is nothing about that in the updates (it may not be true of course - its just a guess but I simply don't know and that is my point). I can't understand why folk are happy at the limited amount of information we currently get. Instead of bickering, if we were a little more united we might get more out of the FCA in terms of what we want to see going forwards to bring us back to the investment table. Just maybe because they paid back on time. Do you really think Somo would lie about all the loans paying back and presumably take all the losses themselves? Doesn't sound like much of a business model to me. And if that was the case why let any over run? And why do we see them chasing borrowers through the courts? Out of interest which loan is it that you are particularly concerned about (loan number)? Curious if I have it and if so what information I may have, I do follow up on my late loans a bit. If you think the FCA should force P2P platforms to give more information or verify the accuracy of information provided it would be much more appropriate to discuss it on a general P2P thread or on the individual 'actual' P2P platform threads, Somo is not a P2P platform and is not authorised for P2P lending by the FCA. It is also a small player so burying your comments here will not reach many lenders or the main platform reps. So far I am happy with the information provided by Somo, and their updates are informative unlike some platforms. And as said above if you want more information on a specific loan ask. All I can say is if you're happy to continuing investing stay happy. Even if you are happy, it does strike me as odd that you wouldn't want more information disclosed to you. As for more my final loan I'm sure it will pay back and even if it doesn't I will have earned much more from the platform than just that. I've said that before and to demonstrate I have no agenda plus/minus for this platform I've said it again. But why do you think you would have more information about any loan than I ?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 17, 2021 16:09:58 GMT
Just maybe because they paid back on time. Do you really think Somo would lie about all the loans paying back and presumably take all the losses themselves? Doesn't sound like much of a business model to me. And if that was the case why let any over run? And why do we see them chasing borrowers through the courts? Out of interest which loan is it that you are particularly concerned about (loan number)? Curious if I have it and if so what information I may have, I do follow up on my late loans a bit. If you think the FCA should force P2P platforms to give more information or verify the accuracy of information provided it would be much more appropriate to discuss it on a general P2P thread or on the individual 'actual' P2P platform threads, Somo is not a P2P platform and is not authorised for P2P lending by the FCA. It is also a small player so burying your comments here will not reach many lenders or the main platform reps. So far I am happy with the information provided by Somo, and their updates are informative unlike some platforms. And as said above if you want more information on a specific loan ask. All I can say is if you're happy to continuing investing stay happy. Even if you are happy, it does strike me as odd that you wouldn't want more information disclosed to you.As for more my final loan I'm sure it will pay back and even if it doesn't I will have earned much more from the platform than just that. I've said that before and to demonstrate I have no agenda plus/minus for this platform I've said it again. But why do you think you would have more information about any loan than I ? You can always want more information but if you have what you consider enough why push for more and more? I'll let Somo deal with the detail. I don't necessarily know more than you, you may well have more information than me and if it's not one of my loans I will have none, but we may have looked in different places, or just dumb luck stumbling across something, you did say you couldn't find a court record. Just trying to be helpful.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Mar 17, 2021 16:25:51 GMT
I am sure this is correct - the authorities also said that income tax introduced to pay for the Napoleonic wars was only a temporary measure...
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