hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Apr 12, 2020 19:21:40 GMT
VWRL is approximate 55% VUSA Lol. Is also abou to 5 - 10% Japan You’re all over the place. What you are doing is pure gambling and not investing. Fine if that’s what you want to do but likely to underperform Considering I am playing with a small sum (3k) I thought this was the best way to increase my units.May I ask What percentage of growth have you had and over what period of time ? Do you invest only in vwrl? What is you purchasing strategy? I think using a vanguard account was a bad idea in hindsight. As with Hargreaves I could set a upper limit to buy I cannot do this with vanguard. These days I only invest in 2 assets (not including cash and my DB pension. Equities and government bonds. My risk tolerance is high so I am almost 100% equities all in VWRL. My holdings dropped over 200k in the recent correction at its worst, but I sold all my bonds and went all in. I never sell, although may do one day when I retire. I am almost never time the markets, but find periods of fear and pessimism difficult to resist going completely all in. Prior to the crash I had no qualms at buying at market highs and will continue to do so going forwards . Currently, almost everybody thinks we are seeing a bear market rally and will plummet again, so I am trying to cash out of my remaining semi liquid P2P. After that, I will only have earned income to invest until I get some scraps of my collateral, SS and MT loans back
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Post by Ace on Apr 12, 2020 19:25:05 GMT
On vanguard, during business hours you get a live price. So you know exactly what price a trade will be at. If you're trying to make money from short term trading it doesn't make sense to issue orders outside of business hours as you have no idea what price the market will open at. That's fine if you are going to invest and hold for the long term and believe that prices will rise considerably over that term.
You asked what growth has been achieved in the past. All past prices and charts are freely available on Vanguard's website, so it's very easy to see what could have been achieved over different periods.
It doesn't sound like you have any strategy at all. You haven't even bothered to read the prospectus, so you don't even know what you've invested in. Which is fine if you're just having some fun with cash you don't mind losing. I'm not criticising. You're free to do whatever you like with your own cash, but it's definitely gambling for fun rather than investing.
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Post by gravitykillz on Apr 12, 2020 21:10:00 GMT
On vanguard, during business hours you get a live price. So you know exactly what price a trade will be at. If you're trying to make money from short term trading it doesn't make sense to issue orders outside of business hours as you have no idea what price the market will open at. That's fine if you are going to invest and hold for the long term and believe that prices will rise considerably over that term. You asked what growth has been achieved in the past. All past prices and charts are freely available on Vanguard's website, so it's very easy to see what could have been achieved over different periods. It doesn't sound like you have any strategy at all. You haven't even bothered to read the prospectus, so you don't even know what you've invested in. Which is fine if you're just having some fun with cash you don't mind losing. I'm not criticising. You're free to do whatever you like with your own cash, but it's definitely gambling for fun rather than investing. I admit I did not read the prospectus. But I did read your posts. And just wanted to see what the fuss was all about. Especially all this hype on this forum about vwrl. If I can get in at a lower level I will invest a larger sum for the long term. I am waiting for £50 a unit!
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 12, 2020 21:14:51 GMT
Quick aside, but why is Vanguard so incredibly popular? There are many other funds etc so why is this one given such good reviews not just by this forum but by many others etc?
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Post by gravitykillz on Apr 12, 2020 21:25:05 GMT
Quick aside, but why is Vanguard so incredibly popular? There are many other funds etc so why is this one given such good reviews not just by this forum but by many others etc? It has a wide range of funds. And the lowest fees. The software is pretty top notch as well.
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Post by gravitykillz on Apr 12, 2020 21:58:08 GMT
On vanguard, during business hours you get a live price. So you know exactly what price a trade will be at. If you're trying to make money from short term trading it doesn't make sense to issue orders outside of business hours as you have no idea what price the market will open at. That's fine if you are going to invest and hold for the long term and believe that prices will rise considerably over that term. You asked what growth has been achieved in the past. All past prices and charts are freely available on Vanguard's website, so it's very easy to see what could have been achieved over different periods. It doesn't sound like you have any strategy at all. You haven't even bothered to read the prospectus, so you don't even know what you've invested in. Which is fine if you're just having some fun with cash you don't mind losing. I'm not criticising. You're free to do whatever you like with your own cash, but it's definitely gambling for fun rather than investing. I think Ace is spot-on. However I also think that the excessive popularity of passive investing is also to blame. People are attracted by the rose-tinted story told by the passivists of being able to buy-and-forget some random tracker. Nobody talks of prospectuses, nobody talks of prices and fees, nobody talks about constituents and attribution. Nobody talks about nothing apart from the passive dream. Sure the industry talks about it and makes the data available. But I'm saying your passivist forums, your passivist magazines don't tell you. Its just "buy this, that or these trackers". Back in the old-days of predominantly active investing at retail level, even Joe Schmo chucking a paltry £1,000 into a widget manufacturer would do their homework. The more they invested, the more homework they did, the better they would get at their decision making. But the whole passive lark simply doesn't promote decision making. The fact that hazellend did not feel compelled to read the prospectus is one of many examples. So, for anyone who reads this, the lesson to be learnt is that passive investing does not equate to a dispensation from learning how to make investment decisions. Totally agree. Hazellend should read the prospectus.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 12, 2020 23:20:57 GMT
I'm pretty sure hazellend has. I'm equally sure there's been no "hype" for VMRL on the forum / in this thread. hazellend has explained why it works for them and their strategy (and why they are more broadly interested in passive investing), @wallstreet has explained why it doesn't work for them and their strategy (and why they prefer not to passively invest). You pays your nickel and you takes your chance. It's an ETF. Because of that there may be wrinkles with it that we have yet to see play out (equally there are many in the market(s) who would say there is absolutely nothing to worry about). Personally I don't hold any ETFs, but that's not because I have any intrinsic problem with them. You pays your nickel and you takes your chance. If it's as vanilla as it sets out to be (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) you buy VWRL to... "buy the world" - large / mid caps, by index weight, by capitalisation, globally. It's as simple as that. There could be... nuances(?) that don't become apparent unless things because "stressed" (see much comment by @wallstreet ), equally they may never become material. You pays your nickel and you takes your chance. And in case you haven't read it, start here:- www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-all-world-ucits-etf-usd-distributing/overviewOne thing you probably shouldn't do is "buy VWRL because you know something that nobody else does". By definition, you're "buying the world". In that context your ability to "know something that nobody else does" is, necessarily, going to be limited. Buy it by all means. But then park it and forget about it. For gods sake don't try to "trade it".
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Apr 13, 2020 6:25:14 GMT
I think Ace is spot-on. However I also think that the excessive popularity of passive investing is also to blame. People are attracted by the rose-tinted story told by the passivists of being able to buy-and-forget some random tracker. Nobody talks of prospectuses, nobody talks of prices and fees, nobody talks about constituents and attribution. Nobody talks about nothing apart from the passive dream. Sure the industry talks about it and makes the data available. But I'm saying your passivist forums, your passivist magazines don't tell you. Its just "buy this, that or these trackers". Back in the old-days of predominantly active investing at retail level, even Joe Schmo chucking a paltry £1,000 into a widget manufacturer would do their homework. The more they invested, the more homework they did, the better they would get at their decision making. But the whole passive lark simply doesn't promote decision making. The fact that hazellend did not feel compelled to read the prospectus is one of many examples. So, for anyone who reads this, the lesson to be learnt is that passive investing does not equate to a dispensation from learning how to make investment decisions. Totally agree. Hazellend should read the prospectus. Hehe
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Apr 13, 2020 13:27:16 GMT
< I almost never time the markets > < I sold all my bonds and went all in. > If you’re passive then Heaven help the aggressive market timers.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Apr 13, 2020 13:33:19 GMT
< I almost never time the markets > < I sold all my bonds and went all in. > If you’re passive then Heaven help the aggressive market timers. You got me! I meant I never time the equity markets. I’ve sold all my bonds now do nothing else to do. I probably only had about 10% in bonds so it wasn’t a big change
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JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Apr 13, 2020 14:41:09 GMT
Of all the ETFs I invested in just over a year ago, VWRL has performed much the best in the downturn, currently standing at -2%, so well done to forum members putting all into that.
For that reason I put my recent P2P withdrawals into Vanguard's FT250 ETF a week ago which has since gained 11.5% but is still well down on pre crash levels.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Apr 13, 2020 14:44:06 GMT
you buy VWRL to... "buy the world" I agree (to a degree) that if you're going to be a true passivist and hold for the true long term, then the above might be obfuscated (to a degree) by the passage of time. But I'm guessing only a small proportion of those boasting long-term passive credentials actually held their passive holdings during the recent broad-sell of ! Sure you may also tell me "index weight, by capitalisation, globally". But is that really what people want and do people realise what that implies in practice (e.g. 10% FAANG). Each to their own, I guess. I for one will certainly be sticking to my truer version of "the world". Actually, the opposite was true. As widely reported, the recent sell-off was participated in by principally institutional investors. Investment professionals are selling while mom and pop buy the coronavirus dipMajority of Vanguard investors holding steady during market volatilityThe Pros Have to Sell Stocks Now. You Don’t. (WSJ paywall) You seem to have a bit of an ongoing blind spot to the values of long term passive investment for the average investor @wallstreet Whilst I'm not questioning your active investment ability (I've no idea), you've questioned the stability of passive index ETF's in a big sell-off - that's been proven wrong. You've questioned whether passive investors can generally stay the course - that was wrong too. You're also long-standingly biased against how well passive trackers have done versus the much higher risks of an active strategy, despite their sterling performance and exponents generally making fools of active investors bets, even when they dabble actively themselves (e.g. buffett's winning bet ) Now you say we may not realise we're overexposed to FAANG. Well, you could have said the same thing from probably 2013 onwards, and if we had engineered to sell out of FAANG then we'd have missed the huge gains they made in the last 7 years. I didn't predict that, but I didn't need to because I was always going to benefit from some company's growth anyway. I'm not trying to shoot you or active investing down entirely here. I'm very interested in your contrasting views and experience in general, and you have a lot of things to say which I find very informative. I just wish you would drop the notion that there isn't room for both active and passive investing and acknowledge some of the virtues that passive investing has demonstrably proven in recent years.
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Post by gravitykillz on Apr 15, 2020 7:40:53 GMT
Dont get why the s and p rose whereas the asian markets fell and the ftse seems to be beginning to fall. That imf warning was the catalyst.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Apr 15, 2020 8:18:53 GMT
Dont get why the s and p rose whereas the asian markets fell and the ftse seems to be beginning to fall. That imf warning was the catalyst. Don’t know, don’t care
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Post by gravitykillz on Apr 15, 2020 8:37:26 GMT
Dont get why the s and p rose whereas the asian markets fell and the ftse seems to be beginning to fall. That imf warning was the catalyst. Don’t know, don’t care I do !!
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