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Post by davee39 on Apr 6, 2020 16:57:55 GMT
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agent69
Member of DD Central
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Post by agent69 on Apr 6, 2020 17:12:31 GMT
I can guarantee that they will be trying for what's best for the platform.
As a matter of interest, why would you buy them a drink when they are only doing what they are paid to do. It's not like they are critical care workers in the NHS, who are literally risking their lives to tackle the coronavirus. Those are people you should be buying drinks for.
 "Why would you want to buy them a drink" Is this really the level of kindergardenism responses that you want to question an investor's metaphorical, figure of speech, comment expressing support for the company, in working out a strategy for the best outcome for all from a worldwide crisis. " They get paid to do it " is so far outside of any use in typing it, really, why bother??? You seem to be aware of the Covid-19 worldwide health crisis by your care workers and NHS staff comment so, surely, you must be aware of the financial implications of this crisis affecting every single financial institution throughout the world. If you're looking for childish responses I can show you plenty from the AC supporters club over the last couple of weeks.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 6, 2020 17:14:06 GMT
To put this into perspective, Lending Works have been in trouble since November. At that time the provision fund was rapidly approaching zero and so they cut interest rates and introduced some draconian penalties for withdrawing (variable amounts but 5 or 6% of your investment was not an uncommon withdrawal fee). They entered the current crisis in a weakened state so it is of little surprise that they are struggling. Also interesting to note that they operate a queueing system and are keeping it: "If you currently have a pending loan sale request, unfortunately, you will be required to wait until the Normalisation Period has ended. However, the order of the queued requests will be maintained once the Normalisation Period ends." No change from a queue to a pool, no disproportionate payouts.
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mark
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Post by mark on Apr 6, 2020 21:19:23 GMT
To put this into perspective, Lending Works have been in trouble since November. At that time the provision fund was rapidly approaching zero and so they cut interest rates and introduced some draconian penalties for withdrawing (variable amounts but 5 or 6% of your investment was not an uncommon withdrawal fee). They entered the current crisis in a weakened state so it is of little surprise that they are struggling. Also interesting to note that they operate a queueing system and are keeping it: "If you currently have a pending loan sale request, unfortunately, you will be required to wait until the Normalisation Period has ended. However, the order of the queued requests will be maintained once the Normalisation Period ends." No change from a queue to a pool, no disproportionate payouts. Even in the face of the reality of the world financial situation and its consequences to every financial institution, inclusive of every peer to peer company, NO acceptance, NO constraint, NO recognition of reality by some. There is no simplistic resolution to this predicament. There are no opposing interests here. We are ALL participants and victims of this global financial crash. There will be no investors who desire or welcome the changes required to address the situation. BUT there are some, the majority I believe, of investors who are realists and willing to give the professionals the opportunity and time to put their professional strategy into action. Support and appreciation for Assetz Capital management NOT taking an easier, less complex, less work intense, more detrimental to lenders, route being recognised be a lender should not be responded to with 'Whatabourtery' in my opinion. Regardless of difference of opinions, we all want the same outcome.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Apr 7, 2020 6:02:41 GMT
Even in the face of the reality of the world financial situation and its consequences to every financial institution, inclusive of every peer to peer company, NO acceptance, NO constraint, NO recognition of reality by some. There is no simplistic resolution to this predicament. There are no opposing interests here. We are ALL participants and victims of this global financial crash. There will be no investors who desire or welcome the changes required to address the situation. BUT there are some, the majority I believe, of investors who are realists and willing to give the professionals the opportunity and time to put their professional strategy into action. Support and appreciation for Assetz Capital management NOT taking an easier, less complex, less work intense, more detrimental to lenders, route being recognised be a lender should not be responded to with 'Whatabourtery' in my opinion. Regardless of difference of opinions, we all want the same outcome. While I agree with most of what you say, I think you go too far when you say "there are no opposing interests here". Of course there are: both in terms of sharing the limited liquidity, and sharing any possible future loss, there is a conflict between lenders. It is simply impossible for everyone that wants their money out now to be satisfied, and however AC make the allocation there will be some who will be happier than others. So, although in ideal world we might all want "the same outcome" (ie all of our money back with interest), in the less than ideal world that we now inhabit we don't - there is no distribution process that will make everyone happy. AC are inevitably in the position of having to make some people unhappy, hence the flak coming their way.
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mark
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Post by mark on Apr 7, 2020 7:33:56 GMT
Even in the face of the reality of the world financial situation and its consequences to every financial institution, inclusive of every peer to peer company, NO acceptance, NO constraint, NO recognition of reality by some. There is no simplistic resolution to this predicament. There are no opposing interests here. We are ALL participants and victims of this global financial crash. There will be no investors who desire or welcome the changes required to address the situation. BUT there are some, the majority I believe, of investors who are realists and willing to give the professionals the opportunity and time to put their professional strategy into action. Support and appreciation for Assetz Capital management NOT taking an easier, less complex, less work intense, more detrimental to lenders, route being recognised be a lender should not be responded to with 'Whatabourtery' in my opinion. Regardless of difference of opinions, we all want the same outcome. While I agree with most of what you say, I think you go too far when you say "there are no opposing interests here". Of course there are: both in terms of sharing the limited liquidity, and sharing any possible future loss, there is a conflict between lenders. It is simply impossible for everyone that wants their money out now to be satisfied, and however AC make the allocation there will be some who will be happier than others. So, although in ideal world we might all want "the same outcome" (ie all of our money back with interest), in the less than ideal world that we now inhabit we don't - there is no distribution process that will make everyone happy. AC are inevitably in the position of having to make some people unhappy, hence the flak coming their way. I do appreciate the point you are making in regards to the distribution process. As far as future loss, this is all speculation and guesstimation at present. I am content to wait to see what adjustsments are going to be made to the decisions that were made under pressure from market conditions. Stuart Law has confirmed in communications to investors that there will be a number of measures coming on stream that will address investor's understandable concerns and grievances which they are fully aware of. This is a far from perfect situation, agreed, but if you look at draconian decisions being made by other p2p platforms, some with the blessing of the FCA !, things could be far worse for AC investors. To clarify, in stating that there are no opposing interests here, I was not referring to the precise details of the current distribution process but rather we all have the same wider interest in Assetz Capital succeeding in their desired aim of returning to normal conditions as soon as possible from this current financial crisis.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 7, 2020 8:22:11 GMT
While I agree with most of what you say, I think you go too far when you say "there are no opposing interests here". Of course there are: both in terms of sharing the limited liquidity, and sharing any possible future loss, there is a conflict between lenders. It is simply impossible for everyone that wants their money out now to be satisfied, and however AC make the allocation there will be some who will be happier than others. So, although in ideal world we might all want "the same outcome" (ie all of our money back with interest), in the less than ideal world that we now inhabit we don't - there is no distribution process that will make everyone happy. AC are inevitably in the position of having to make some people unhappy, hence the flak coming their way. I do appreciate the point you are making in regards to the distribution process. As far as future loss, this is all speculation and guesstimation at present. I am content to wait to see what adjustsments are going to be made to the decisions that were made under pressure from market conditions. Stuart Law has confirmed in communications to investors that there will be a number of measures coming on stream that will address investor's understandable concerns and grievances which they are fully aware of. This is a far from perfect situation, agreed, but if you look at draconian decisions being made by other p2p platforms, some with the blessing of the FCA !, things could be far worse for AC investors. To clarify, in stating that there are no opposing interests here, I was not referring to the precise details of the current distribution process but rather we all have the same wider interest in Assetz Capital succeeding in their desired aim of returning to normal conditions as soon as possible from this current financial crisis. Things could be far worse for AC investors? How do you work that out? If you are a large investor you are already having your money taken away to bail out small investors. The longer this goes on the more poor quality loans you are forced to buy from them. Ultimately you will be left with nothing but a non-performing loan book. Sounds rather bad to be. Yes, I agree there is nothing to them stop coming up with even more ways to redistribute cash as they see fit and make things worse than they currently are but we are in the dark on that. Its very clear that you are in the small investor camp and are quite happy to sit there receiving your bailout cash from the large investors. Good for you. In the meantime I expect you will keep talking up AC until you finally get your money out.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 7, 2020 8:57:46 GMT
I do appreciate the point you are making in regards to the distribution process. As far as future loss, this is all speculation and guesstimation at present. I am content to wait to see what adjustsments are going to be made to the decisions that were made under pressure from market conditions. Stuart Law has confirmed in communications to investors that there will be a number of measures coming on stream that will address investor's understandable concerns and grievances which they are fully aware of. This is a far from perfect situation, agreed, but if you look at draconian decisions being made by other p2p platforms, some with the blessing of the FCA !, things could be far worse for AC investors. To clarify, in stating that there are no opposing interests here, I was not referring to the precise details of the current distribution process but rather we all have the same wider interest in Assetz Capital succeeding in their desired aim of returning to normal conditions as soon as possible from this current financial crisis. Things could be far worse for AC investors? How do you work that out? If you are a large investor you are already having your money taken away to bail out small investors. The longer this goes on the more poor quality loans you are forced to buy from them. Ultimately you will be left with nothing but a non-performing loan book. Sounds rather bad to be. Yes, I agree there is nothing to them stop coming up with even more ways to redistribute cash as they see fit and make things worse than they currently are but we are in the dark on that. Its very clear that you are in the small investor camp and are quite happy to sit there receiving your bailout cash from the large investors. Good for you. In the meantime I expect you will keep talking up AC until you finally get your money out. Or he's in the third group (quite possibly the largest) … the not actually withdrawing at all who are apparently being shafted by both legs of the drawers.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Apr 7, 2020 9:03:41 GMT
Its very clear that you are in the small investor camp and are quite happy to sit there receiving your bailout cash from the large investors. Must confess, I'm curious as to what constitutes a 'small investor' and also a 'large investor'. I (now) have fractionally under £40k in the QAA - where does that place me?
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alender
Member of DD Central
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Post by alender on Apr 7, 2020 9:26:39 GMT
Its very clear that you are in the small investor camp and are quite happy to sit there receiving your bailout cash from the large investors. Must confess, I'm curious as to what constitutes a 'small investor' and also a 'large investor'. I (now) have fractionally under £40k in the QAA - where does that place me? Very good question, it all depends on how many people are in the withdraw pool so it is a moving target as more 30d and then 90d withdrawals enter this pool. AC stated 85K but gave no figures to back this up. Using the only information I have which is my loan book, the repaid loans and the amount paid into my cash account I calculated this to be around 23K a few days ago but yesterday it dropped to around 13K this makes sense as stated above the pool is increasing. I expect this figure will keep reducing for a time, at least 90 days after the liquidity event.
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shimself
Member of DD Central
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Post by shimself on Apr 7, 2020 9:30:52 GMT
I see the names of some of the staff looking in here. To you and all of you trying the best for the best result for all of us a big THANK YOUWhen you all meet again I will buy you all the first drink.
Please let everyone there know that I for one appreciate that you are doing your best. What's this about please. Is it some mitigation of the account charge?
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iRobot
Member of DD Central
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Post by iRobot on Apr 7, 2020 9:45:35 GMT
Must confess, I'm curious as to what constitutes a 'small investor' and also a 'large investor'. I (now) have fractionally under £40k in the QAA - where does that place me? Very good question, it all depends on how many people are in the withdraw pool so it is a moving target as more 30d and then 90d withdrawals enter this pool. AC stated 85K but gave no figures to back this up. Using the only information I have which is my loan book, the repaid loans and the amount paid into my cash account I calculated this to be around 23K a few days ago but yesterday it dropped to around 13K this makes sense as stated above the pool is increasing. I expect this figure will keep reducing for a time, at least 90 days after the liquidity event. AC stated £85k as being what? A small investor or a large one? Actually, I don't see how the above answers the question. Perhaps I should phrase it differently: In normal market conditions, what would you ( alanh / alender) class as a small / large investor?
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alender
Member of DD Central
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Post by alender on Apr 7, 2020 10:02:20 GMT
Very good question, it all depends on how many people are in the withdraw pool so it is a moving target as more 30d and then 90d withdrawals enter this pool. AC stated 85K but gave no figures to back this up. Using the only information I have which is my loan book, the repaid loans and the amount paid into my cash account I calculated this to be around 23K a few days ago but yesterday it dropped to around 13K this makes sense as stated above the pool is increasing. I expect this figure will keep reducing for a time, at least 90 days after the liquidity event. AC stated £85k as being what? A small investor or a large one? Actually, I don't see how the above answers the question. Perhaps I should phrase it differently: In normal market conditions, what would you ( alanh / alender ) class as a small / large investor? For 85k below is a small investor above is a large one, according to AC not backed by figures and number of days old.
Not sure what the point of the normal market conditions question, I guess you could find using the mean or median (depending on your preference) of funds invested for lenders. However in normal market conditions everyone is treated the same so it is of no relevance.
We are looking at who benefits from the pool system AC have introduced, a small lender is one who will gain by the pooling system (so therefore be worse off under Pro Rata) and a large lender one who loses, so a few days ago anyone under 23K was a winner, over 23K a loser, yesterday anyone under 13K was a winner, over 13K a loser. So the latest information is 13k and dropping.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Apr 7, 2020 11:01:02 GMT
It is to be noted, by account and by access account 23k EACH and not overall. But these are days old figures, and we cannot be sure anymore if the queue has grown, shruk or what not. However I have pointed out, each day the payouts are getting larger (for new investors money desposits run), by pennies or now by pounds. Either this means the queue is getting smaller (or at least the number of ACCOUNTS IN THE QUEUE, not always the mean overall number, but the two would arguably corrlate quite strongly) OR (or both) more money is flowing in from investors. Luckily the 30 daa and 90 daa transfer option is here, but this isn't removing people from the queue just automatically reinvesting free cash into those accounts. (fca rules) Mathmatically this is still a better option than it all going into cash until that person logs into redirect it. I've seen the 90daa reach 76m since that implementation so clearly it is still growing. One lucky bugger on here had money in 4 accounts, his ISA and main, and 90daa and qaa on all (I think!) he gets 4 payouts everytime there is one  |
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gmitz
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Post by gmitz on Apr 7, 2020 11:05:06 GMT
Maybe the reason AC to switch from "queue" to "pool" system of repayment is to remove the little transparency we have in what they do behind the scene.
Think about it, in the "queue" system some or most of you will post here, "it was month late but finally I have my £xxxxx back and now I can do whatever I was planning to do with them" and you will know, AC is honoring their commitment and sooner or later you will be next. And also we would have some idea how much money AC is distributing.
With "pool" system, there is no accountability in it at all. Everyone is receiving £10 - £20 a day none is the wiser how much cash AC has for distribution and WHETHER they want to distribute it.
Or maybe there is simpler and more cynical explanation, as the majority of investors are very small one, it cost peanuts to AC to make the majority of its investors happy. In any case, we are screwed.
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"Why would you want to buy them a drink" 
