agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 8, 2020 17:48:25 GMT
I don't think anyone is suggesting A didn't win. It's just that the thread title is grossly misleading, given that the overwhelming majority of investors didn't vote. If you wanted to go with Option A, why would you vote? I voted Option A only because it was blocking access to my account, otherwise I wouldn't have voted, being happy with the default. I don't disagree with what you say, but the fact remains that the overwhelming majority did not vote, and we don't know why.
For the avoidance of doubt I voted B, as I'm not a fan of AC's voting mechanism (which tends to be either vote for this proposal or don't vote for it). From my experience of p2p lending over many years forbearance is normally followed by either:
- a request for further forbearance, or
- a request for further money, or
- bankruptcy
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bg
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Post by bg on Apr 8, 2020 18:03:20 GMT
Presumably the 82% either read the "you'll be counted as voting for (Option A)" which they were OK with, or they didn't care which way the vote went. Whatever way you look at this on a weighted investor basis only around 7.5% voted A, hardly an overwhelming mandate. No idea where that comes from. By value of loans:- Yes £154.4m No £15.28m did not vote £212.2m
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bg
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Post by bg on Apr 8, 2020 18:07:23 GMT
No one has any idea why so few people voted, for all we know a lot of people did not know about the vote, they have many other things on their mind at present.
I have a pretty good idea why this is the case. The majority of investors are not pouring over this forum, they don't even log into the website very frequently...many only once or twice a year. They put money in and forget about it, its click and forget. In fact I would venture that there are a lot of people that don't even know the accounts have been frozen. I have a friend with several hundred thousand in the access accounts, he didn't know they had been locked even after the email had been sent. He isn't too fussed either, just shrugged and said it'll all work itself out. I think you will find there are significantly less people in the exit queue than you likely think.
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mark
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Post by mark on Apr 8, 2020 18:18:06 GMT
So it begins, the vote for A won, but the B's will never let it go.  I don't think anyone is suggesting A didn't win. It's just that the thread title is grossly misleading, given that the overwhelming majority of investors didn't vote. Are we witnessing the birth of a second vote movement . A people's vote. Remoaners and all. 🤭
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alender
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Post by alender on Apr 8, 2020 18:41:38 GMT
Starting from "Calculated by vote and weighted by size of investment
Excluding those who did not vote: average of For = 91% , Against = 9%
Including those who did not vote as 'for’: average of For = 96%, Against = 4%"
Assume those who voted Option B had a total of £N invested, then -from "Including those who did not vote as 'for’: average of For = 96%, Against = 4%" all lenders have a total of £25N invested
-from "Excluding those who did not vote: average of For = 91% , Against = 9%" we see Option A voters had a total of £(91/9)N invested, i.e. £10.11N.
By weight of investment, Option A votes had 100*£10.11N/£25N percent, i.e. 40.44% of the weighted vote
Edit: crossed with bracknellboy who said earlier - in a more elegant post - "QED the number who actually voted, by weight is 44% of the total. Of those, 91% voted For. QED about 40.4% of the WEIGHTED INVESTOR BASE voted "A" Looking at this again I think you are right, I mixed up total number of lender votes against a ratio of 4/9 which does not apply
From the total Funds of votes
40.44% voted for A
4% voted for B
55.56% did not vote.
From total number of Lenders
18.14% Voted A
1.7% Voted B
80.16 Did not Vote
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Apr 8, 2020 19:04:44 GMT
I think you will find there are significantly less people in the exit queue than you likely think.
Great stuff - surprised they need all this moving the goalposts on platform operation then but without doubt it'll be normal service in next to no time
(if they don't go bust obv)
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Post by Please turn me over on Apr 9, 2020 10:52:42 GMT
FCA expects firms in the P2P sector to offer appropriate forbearance at an early stage where the customer indicates they are experiencing payment difficulties as a result of coronavirus. www.fca.org.uk/publication/feedback/fs20-3.pdf |
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Apr 9, 2020 11:03:47 GMT
FCA expects firms in the P2P sector to offer appropriate forbearance at an early stage where the customer indicates they are experiencing payment difficulties as a result of coronavirus. www.fca.org.uk/publication/feedback/fs20-3.pdfI understand that this relates to consumer lenders - which isn’t us but is several other P2P platforms - even though specifically carved out. They may not ‘need’ to do it but the expectation is there. Nonetheless there are Treating Customers Fairly rules that apply to business borrowers. The positive issue here that people haven’t really picked up on is our retention accounts that typically let us continue to pay investors when borrowers are allowed to pause payments and just accrue interest for payment later. Our lenders are forecast to be little affected in payments during this period whilst borrowers don’t have to send us any money typically if they agree a formal extension and forbearance.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 9, 2020 11:07:51 GMT
FCA expects firms in the P2P sector to offer appropriate forbearance at an early stage where the customer indicates they are experiencing payment difficulties as a result of coronavirus. www.fca.org.uk/publication/feedback/fs20-3.pdf - which isn’t us but is several other P2P platforms - even though specifically carved out. They may not ‘need’ to do it but the expectation is there. Nonetheless there are Treating Customers Fairly rules that apply to business borrowers. The positive issue here that people haven’t really picked up on is our retention accounts that typically let us continue to pay investors when borrowers are allowed to pause payments and just accrue interest for payment later. Our lenders are forecast to be little affected in payments during this period whilst borrowers don’t have to send us any money typically if they agree a formal extension and forbearance. Key section for P2P seems to be 2.3 within 'Our response' (i.e. FCA's response) " This guidance also does not apply to premium finance, pawnbroking, and consumer loans facilitated through a P2P platform. We recognise that applying payment deferrals to these products raises distinct and complex issues. While we do not intend to bring forward specific proposals for P2P loans, we would expect firms in this sector to offer appropriate forbearance at an early stage where the customer indicates they are experiencing payment difficulties as a result of coronavirus."
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Apr 9, 2020 11:45:23 GMT
FCA expects firms in the P2P sector to offer appropriate forbearance at an early stage where the customer indicates they are experiencing payment difficulties as a result of coronavirus.www.fca.org.uk/publication/feedback/fs20-3.pdfWon't be many Borrowers claiming that then? 😂 🤣
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Apr 9, 2020 13:31:54 GMT
FCA expects firms in the P2P sector to offer appropriate forbearance at an early stage where the customer indicates they are experiencing payment difficulties as a result of coronavirus.www.fca.org.uk/publication/feedback/fs20-3.pdfWon't be many Borrowers claiming that then? 😂 🤣 I haven't read all through this, but I think the idea is that the borrower won't be in trouble if they hold off on making payments. BUT the interest due will increase, so a borrower who is doing OK will want to make a payment on time
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Apr 9, 2020 15:35:47 GMT
I understand that this relates to consumer lenders - which isn’t us but is several other P2P platforms - even though specifically carved out. They may not ‘need’ to do it but the expectation is there. Nonetheless there are Treating Customers Fairly rules that apply to business borrowers. The positive issue here that people haven’t really picked up on is our retention accounts that typically let us continue to pay investors when borrowers are allowed to pause payments and just accrue interest for payment later. Our lenders are forecast to be little affected in payments during this period whilst borrowers don’t have to send us any money typically if they agree a formal extension and forbearance. Key section for P2P seems to be 2.3 within 'Our response' (i.e. FCA's response) " This guidance also does not apply to premium finance, pawnbroking, and consumer loans facilitated through a P2P platform. We recognise that applying payment deferrals to these products raises distinct and complex issues. While we do not intend to bring forward specific proposals for P2P loans, we would expect firms in this sector to offer appropriate forbearance at an early stage where the customer indicates they are experiencing payment difficulties as a result of coronavirus." Assetz Capital loans are not (in most cases) premium finance, their not pawnbroking, and their not consumer loans facilitated through a P2P platform. They are small business loans and very comparable with bank business loans.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 9, 2020 15:41:51 GMT
Key section for P2P seems to be 2.3 within 'Our response' (i.e. FCA's response) " This guidance also does not apply to premium finance, pawnbroking, and consumer loans facilitated through a P2P platform. We recognise that applying payment deferrals to these products raises distinct and complex issues. While we do not intend to bring forward specific proposals for P2P loans, we would expect firms in this sector to offer appropriate forbearance at an early stage where the customer indicates they are experiencing payment difficulties as a result of coronavirus." Assetz Capital loans are not (in most cases) premium finance, their not pawnbroking, and their not consumer loans facilitated through a P2P platform. They are small business loans and very comparable with bank business loans. Thanks, I understand that. Stuart was saying AC don't deal in consumer loans (as you also say). My point, which I didn't make clear, was that even if they did deal with consumer loans, the FCA guidance doesn't apply to P2P firms in this area.
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eeyore
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Post by eeyore on Apr 9, 2020 16:09:56 GMT
Assetz Capital loans are not (in most cases) premium finance, their not pawnbroking, and their not consumer loans facilitated through a P2P platform. They are small business loans and very comparable with bank business loans. Thanks, I understand that. Stuart was saying AC don't deal in consumer loans (as you also say). My point, which I didn't make clear, was that even if they did deal with consumer loans, the FCA guidance doesn't apply to P2P firms in this area. I'm confused.... He stated: " I understand that this relates to consumer lenders - which isn’t us but is several other P2P platforms" Did he really mean to say "consumer borrowers"?
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Post by df on Apr 9, 2020 19:26:03 GMT
Not sure what to make of these figures, as stated 399 is 1.7% of all lenders therefore there are 23,471 lenders. AC states Total votes cast = 4658 so from AC figures only around 20% voted, good job it was not this low on Brexit some might say only only 18% of voters voted for this. When adding in votes weighted on amount invested this will be around 7.5%.
Sorry, but no idea what point you are trying to make. Your extrapolation from 399/1.7% = 23k+ lenders is fair enough. However a huge tranche of those 23k are likely minimally invested (and certainly chose not to vote of their own free will). Exactly. My wife didn't vote, she has <1p on her account... I guess almost everyone who ever invested and exited the platform are still counted as investors.
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