wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on Apr 15, 2020 7:27:34 GMT
Sounds totally wrong that a loan where the borrower is in financial distress can be sold! Their justification is summarised by the below quote from their email yesterday. " there are cases where we are notified of financial difficulty and then our loans customer does not miss the repayment. " May be that is when they win on the lottery i.e. no doubt it happens very occasionally... ====== So because some times (I have had this happen 3 times and haven't seen one) the payer may not miss the next payment. As I said to them they would not do this if it was their money at stake, instead they would wait to see what the borrower does. In the end now I know I can act (going forward) and stop lending but I believe other lenders will not be aware of this. I would suggest (if you have the time) look at the comments section for RR loans you pick up and watch for ones that have the phrase "financial distress" added. The last straw for me was picking yet another one up on March 21st (it had a note financial distress on March 16th) and then it missed the very next payment due on March 26th (5 days after picking it up). Zopa have indicated they are trying to put in a fix for this at sometime in the future, but as of yesterday it seems the issue is still present. The fix may not happen until they roll out what they call the Zopa Next Generation which has been talked about for years. W35
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aju
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Post by aju on Apr 15, 2020 9:24:20 GMT
I don't have any that are in "Financial Stress", so far but not sure yet about Mrs Aju. We do have a few that are marked "Financial Difficulties", none are in default as such yet and they are quite old in my book so I guess they are not part of this.
I do agree that Zopa does have a duty of care with our funds and where there are mishaps, lets face it top class software design is not the easiest/cheapest of tasks and many companies do tend to see it as less valuable than getting things done on time. Zopa has no excuse in this in my view and should act accordingly.
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wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on Apr 15, 2020 10:18:32 GMT
Indeed. What gets me is I pointed out the Financial Difficulties issue with them in early Jan with examples. On March 4th they said they would address the issue at least implying in my opinion it would be done shortly. And then the exact same issue happens yet again March 21st . Screen shot below shows the comments section. Financial difficulties March 16th (but not in arrears yet) next payment due March 26th. RR to me March 21, and then payment failed March 26th. At some point I believe they will address this with a tweak to the algorithm but for me (after 8 years with Zopa) this has happened far too many times for me to have any faith in them going forward. I note it is Financial Difficulties as opposed to "distress" not that the word makes much difference, but sorry for the error in wording.
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aju
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Post by aju on Apr 15, 2020 11:05:27 GMT
Indeed. What gets me is I pointed out the Financial Difficulties issue with them in early Jan with examples. On March 4th they said they would address the issue at least implying in my opinion it would be done shortly. And then the exact same issue happens yet again March 21st . Screen shot below shows the comments section. Financial difficulties March 16th (but not in arrears yet) next payment due March 26th. RR to me March 21, and then payment failed March 26th.
At some point I believe they will address this with a tweak to the algorithm but for me (after 8 years with Zopa) this has happened far too many times for me to have any faith in them going forward. I note it is Financial Difficulties as opposed to "distress" not that the word makes much difference, but sorry for the error in wording.No probs, if it is FD then I guess I need to check more clearly myself and with Mrs Aju too, I can quite easily check any of them when they last paid if at all as I track that very item monthly anyway. On Zopa addressing any issues, whilst its not right they take their time I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for an all singing all dancing improvement that has been promised for a couple of years I know about but never actually seems to happen. I'd actually settle for just making the website work better and get rid of the annoying timeouts - although I can get round a lot of that without having to sign back in.
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Post by fuzzyiceberg on Apr 15, 2020 15:41:59 GMT
Totally agree they Zopa should not be passing on any loan where they have been informed of the borrower having financial difficulties. I would have thought an easy short term fix would be to come up with a new status 'Financial Difficulties' and keep any such loans out of the RR process. But maybe the RR routine only checks missed payments...
Unbelievable that they couldn't answer the 'can sellers sell CDE (and in Core B) loans' question. Surely one of the bright young fintech masters of the universe thought about that at one of the tribal corroborees or whatever it is they have between drinking chai lattes and dreaming of IPOs.
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wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on Apr 16, 2020 11:15:57 GMT
Some answers from Zopa (I did not write this so questions to Zopa not me please): ======== For your first point, relating to our approach in which risk markets we will lend to during this market uncertainty, this will not affect the C, D, and E loans you have on offer. This approach that we are taking is specifically for new loans and his point was that we will stop originating loans that would have fallen in our C, D, and E risk bands. This means that new Zopa loans will only be A*, A, or B.
As for our secondary market, I want to provide you with reassurance the market remains unchanged. What I mean by this is that your C, D, and E loans on the market are still there to be picked up and will still be sold. Therefore, we are taking the approach for investors still actively lending on our platform to have a 70/30 split. For loans they pick up about 70% will be new loans originated on the platform with our tighter restriction while 30% will be loans picked up on the secondary market.
On the point you raised involving the MRA, the recent change is reflective of the uncertainty we are currently dealing with. If there are any material changes to the MRA, we would communicate this in advance and pause loan sales for 24-48 hours. We would do this to give investors the opportunity to cancel their sale if that bests suits their situation. It will be the same approach we took at the end of March. Furthermore, interest rates have gone up for newly originated loans as of April. However, the MRAs set at the end of March have accounted for this adjustment. This means that MRAs should not change materially through April. With that said, we are reviewing the MRA frequently. The hope is that we could potentially reduce MRAs once there is more stability in the market.
One final point on the MRA I would like to raise is that we do allow 24-48 hours after an MRA change is communicated to our investors. As mentioned above, we took this approach at the end of March. It is of course a balancing act, so we have taken your feedback on board. Granted, it may cause more issues if loan sales were to be frozen for a 10-day timeline, but we will investigate other options if we do face a material change in the MRA if it is increasing. Once more, we do not expect this to happen in April, but we will keep our Investors informed.
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Broadly I am okay with this although I have added it would be sensible to allow the 24-48 hour notice period to span working days not a weekend. i.e. If they have website problems (I know that never happens... cringe) so those website issues can be escalated to Zopa.
p.s. the 70:30 split probably starts to explain the reason there is a big queue of buyers and sellers.... i.e. Due to the small amount of new lending...
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wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on Apr 17, 2020 16:59:04 GMT
Okay just now got the reply on Loans in "Financial Difficulties" (as communicated by the borrower to Zopa) but not in Arrears being saleable as an RR:
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To answer your main question, yes. Loans that are marked as in financial difficulty but have not requested to be in an arrangement can still be sold on the secondary market (so long as there are no arrears and the loan is considered ‘up to date’). While we are working to implement additional flags, this is also dependent on other parts of the business, we are not able to commit to an exact time-frame of when these changes would take place. ======================
So guys if you choose to Lend this is the kind of loan you may end up with. I just wish to make sure you are aware since it was a huge surprise to me and has led me to exit Zopa as an investment platform after 8 years..
As I am selling, I guess the good thing (for me) is I can sell these loans even though I don't think I should be able to...
Good luck...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 7:57:48 GMT
You can also sell loans that have been in arrears but caught up. I don't think that's right either - they must be more risky than a loan that has never been in arrears.
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Post by blanik on Apr 20, 2020 7:05:29 GMT
You can also sell loans that have been in arrears but caught up. I don't think that's right either - they must be more risky than a loan that has never been in arrears. It used to be that you couldn't sell any loans that had ever missed a payment, this was changed to loans that are currently in arrears. I can kind of see both sides - it was fairly common for the first DD to fail, and a replacement payment by card, which would have prevented that loan ever being sold under the old system.
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wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on Apr 20, 2020 7:42:16 GMT
You can also sell loans that have been in arrears but caught up. I don't think that's right either - they must be more risky than a loan that has never been in arrears. It used to be that you couldn't sell any loans that had ever missed a payment, this was changed to loans that are currently in arrears. I can kind of see both sides - it was fairly common for the first DD to fail, and a replacement payment by card, which would have prevented that loan ever being sold under the old system. I did ask Zopa about this i.e. loans being sold that had previously been in arrears not paying an MRA to reflect the increased risk. They said they would not pay an MRA for higher risk loans in those situations (really B-E's) because when they priced the loans they assumed periods when the loans would be in arrears. They did add however that MRA are paid for A loans that have gone into prior arrears and then caught up (I have seen that, whether it is sufficient is another question for the individual investor to consider).
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Post by diversifier on May 1, 2020 11:14:37 GMT
C risk loans are being added back to Plus. Thanks for the info. Is there some announcement source that I don’t know about? I haven’t had an email, not do I see anything on the website.
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Post by erniec on May 1, 2020 11:24:08 GMT
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aju
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Post by aju on May 1, 2020 12:30:58 GMT
I'm sure you don't mind but that eMail has your name on it - it does not seem to have any specific info that one couldn't deduce from this site, name wise that is!.
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Post by erniec on May 1, 2020 12:39:08 GMT
No problem aju. It’s just my first name. Interestingly, it suggests it’s the May update when it’s actually the April one.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 1, 2020 14:10:08 GMT
No problem aju . It’s just my first name. Interestingly, it suggests it’s the May update when it’s actually the April one. Yeah it's a bit odd, I guess they forgot to code the correct month info - mind you the way they forget a lot of testing in much of their works it's not really surprising. I checked the code behind my browser version and it seems the tools they use to generate a browser version are collecting the current date when in fact they could easily have passed value denoting the correct eMail date. Bad form I feel, personally I try not to use links in emails in case they contain bad code or I can analyse where the link might really take me.
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