adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Apr 23, 2020 20:00:41 GMT
Many people will return to Ratesetter once they Weather this Covid outbreak ,especially when they realise what rubbish rates FSCS protected accounts attract and falling totally agree - most people in this field are complete amateurs and best and crooks at worst and numerous other platforms will go to the wall - personally I would accept a lower rate if allied with greater security. I think (and pray) RS weather this one but they seem to me to be doing all the right things. Assuming they survive then RS will be in a very strong position to expand their market share.
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Post by freefalljunkie on Apr 24, 2020 8:39:01 GMT
Many people will return to Ratesetter once they Weather this Covid outbreak ,especially when they realise what rubbish rates FSCS protected accounts attract and falling totally agree - most people in this field are complete amateurs and best and crooks at worst and numerous other platforms will go to the wall - personally I would accept a lower rate if allied with greater security. I think (and pray) RS weather this one but they seem to me to be doing all the right things. Assuming they survive then RS will be in a very strong position to expand their market share.
I think Ratesetter's survival long term depends very much on how they handle their current liquidity issues with the backlog of RYI requests. A P2P platform, like any other retail investment, can only survive if it maintains investor confidence. If it takes months to get money out, during which time loan defaults go through the roof so investors don't get some or even all of their money back, then Ratesetter's reputation and investor confidence will have been irreparably damaged. Ratesetter really have not done themselves any favours so far in maintaining confidence - their daily communications are a masterpiece of half-truths and obfuscation designed to conceal the scale of the current RYI problems. 'Over a month', yeah right, looks like it will many months.  aren't they just open and honest with their investors? They may slightly better than some their competitors in this regard, but that is still no excuse.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 24, 2020 9:01:47 GMT
totally agree - most people in this field are complete amateurs and best and crooks at worst and numerous other platforms will go to the wall - personally I would accept a lower rate if allied with greater security. I think (and pray) RS weather this one but they seem to me to be doing all the right things. Assuming they survive then RS will be in a very strong position to expand their market share.
I think Ratesetter's survival long term depends very much on how they handle their current liquidity issues with the backlog of RYI requests. A P2P platform, like any other retail investment, can only survive if it maintains investor confidence. If it takes months to get money out, during which time loan defaults go through the roof so investors don't get some or even all of their money back, then Ratesetter's reputation and investor confidence will have been irreparably damaged. Ratesetter really have not done themselves any favours so far in maintaining confidence - their daily communications are a masterpiece of half-truths and obfuscation designed to conceal the scale of the current RYI problems. 'Over a month', yeah right, looks like it will many months. aren't they just open and honest with their investors? They may slightly better than some their competitors in this regard, but that is still no excuse.
We know how they are handling it - they are paying back £5 million per week to investors. Take a look at other platforms - on many of them you can't get your money out. AC paid back £5 per investor over the past week - people are looking at decades to get out. I would take RS's handling of this over the dribbles of cash seen elsewhere any day of the week.
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Post by freefalljunkie on Apr 24, 2020 9:14:34 GMT
I think Ratesetter's survival long term depends very much on how they handle their current liquidity issues with the backlog of RYI requests. A P2P platform, like any other retail investment, can only survive if it maintains investor confidence. If it takes months to get money out, during which time loan defaults go through the roof so investors don't get some or even all of their money back, then Ratesetter's reputation and investor confidence will have been irreparably damaged. Ratesetter really have not done themselves any favours so far in maintaining confidence - their daily communications are a masterpiece of half-truths and obfuscation designed to conceal the scale of the current RYI problems. 'Over a month', yeah right, looks like it will many months. aren't they just open and honest with their investors? They may slightly better than some their competitors in this regard, but that is still no excuse.
We know how they are handling it - they are paying back £5 million per week to investors. Take a look at other platforms - on many of them you can't get your money out. AC paid back £5 per investor over the past week - people are looking at decades to get out. I would take RS's handling of this over the dribbles of cash seen elsewhere any day of the week. However way you spin it, there is absolutely zero excuse for their wilful lack of transparency on how long withdrawals are going to take. They are perfectly capable of giving of giving guidance such as a request made on date x will take 10 to 12 weeks to process, but they are choosing not to do so. They have also said pretty well nothing about how they are handling the hugely increased risk of defaults from both business and consumer loans. Again they are *choosing* not to provide this information. That is a) indefensible, and b) stupid, as it erodes investor confidence still further at a time when maintaining that confidence is key to their survival.
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Apr 24, 2020 9:30:43 GMT
We know how they are handling it - they are paying back £5 million per week to investors. Take a look at other platforms - on many of them you can't get your money out. AC paid back £5 per investor over the past week - people are looking at decades to get out. I would take RS's handling of this over the dribbles of cash seen elsewhere any day of the week. However way you spin it, there is absolutely zero excuse for their wilful lack of transparency on how long withdrawals are going to take. They are perfectly capable of giving of giving guidance such as a request made on date x will take 10 to 12 weeks to process, but they are choosing not to do so. They have also said pretty well nothing about how they are handling the hugely increased risk of defaults from both business and consumer loans. Again they are *choosing* not to provide this information. That is a) indefensible, and b) stupid, as it erodes investor confidence still further at a time when maintaining that confidence is key to their survival. This is impossible because they cannot predict the future flow of liquidity. It would be complete guesswork and then the likes of you would only get angry when they were way off the mark.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Apr 24, 2020 9:31:29 GMT
We know how they are handling it - they are paying back £5 million per week to investors. Take a look at other platforms - on many of them you can't get your money out. AC paid back £5 per investor over the past week - people are looking at decades to get out. I would take RS's handling of this over the dribbles of cash seen elsewhere any day of the week. However way you spin it, there is absolutely zero excuse for their wilful lack of transparency on how long withdrawals are going to take. They are perfectly capable of giving of giving guidance such as a request made on date x will take 10 to 12 weeks to process, but they are choosing not to do so. They have also said pretty well nothing about how they are handling the hugely increased risk of defaults from both business and consumer loans. Again they are *choosing* not to provide this information. That is a) indefensible, and b) stupid, as it erodes investor confidence still further at a time when maintaining that confidence is key to their survival. Two things: 1) I wouldn't pine for hearing about the increased risk of defaults. If/when they directly admit the PF has insufficient money, that's when you really will be locked in. 2) Frustrating as it may be, IMV it is actually in your interest for the queue to be undefined. They are trying nobly to balance supply and demand, and it doesn't help when there's a horribly large multi-million £ amount visible to further scare people into withdrawing. This month's stats (due shortly) really are going to be interesting.
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Post by freefalljunkie on Apr 24, 2020 9:49:51 GMT
However way you spin it, there is absolutely zero excuse for their wilful lack of transparency on how long withdrawals are going to take. They are perfectly capable of giving of giving guidance such as a request made on date x will take 10 to 12 weeks to process, but they are choosing not to do so. They have also said pretty well nothing about how they are handling the hugely increased risk of defaults from both business and consumer loans. Again they are *choosing* not to provide this information. That is a) indefensible, and b) stupid, as it erodes investor confidence still further at a time when maintaining that confidence is key to their survival. This is impossible because they cannot predict the future flow of liquidity. It would be complete guesswork and then the likes of you would only get angry when they were way off the mark.
Utter nonsense. No one is expecting an exact date, but if you know how much is in the queue, and how much you are able to release a week (which has been consistently 4 to 5M for the past few weeks), then it is a matter of simple arithmetic to at least provide some general guidance on timescales. Do you think it is acceptable that investors are having to try and piece this information together from the request numbers over on the other thread? The 'likes of me' who have invested with Ratesetter for many years, with a 6 figure sum invested, are exactly the kind of investors they need to keep. P2P is just one of many asset classes in my investment portfolio, spread across property, equities, bonds etc, and if I feel I have not been treated in an open and honest way I will simply put my money elsewhere in future. I am sure I am not alone.
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Apr 24, 2020 9:58:24 GMT
This is impossible because they cannot predict the future flow of liquidity. It would be complete guesswork and then the likes of you would only get angry when they were way off the mark.
Utter nonsense. No one is expecting an exact date, but if you know how much is in the queue, and how much you are able to release a week (which has been consistently 4 to 5M for the past few weeks), then it is a matter of simple arithmetic to at least provide some general guidance on timescales. Do you think it is acceptable that investors are having to try and piece this information together from the request numbers over on the other thread? The 'likes of me' who have invested with Ratesetter for many years, with a 6 figure sum invested, are exactly the kind of investors they need to keep. P2P is just one of many asset classes in my investment portfolio, spread across property, equities, bonds etc, and if I feel I have not been treated in an open and honest way I will simply put my money elsewhere in future. I am sure I am not alone.
" if you know how much is in the queue, and how much you are able to release a week (which has been consistently 4 to 5M for the past few weeks), then it is a matter of simple arithmetic to at least provide some general guidance on timescales" That's exactly the problem: they don't know how much they can release each week. The figures you cite are how much they have been releasing each week; they are not necessarily an indication of how much they can release each week. This isn't a zero-sum calculation, it's a delicate balancing act where you try to release enough that investors don't go crazy, but not so much that you don't have a necessary buffer of cash. These calculations will likely be changing all the time in the background, but RS are smoothing them in terms of what's actually released. This pattern could easily shift quite dramatically over time, though. For example, if confidence returns to the platform and investment/withdrawal cancellations pick up, liquidity will greatly improve. If, on the other hand, lots of borrowers default in the coming weeks, liquidity will likely worsen significantly as cash dries up. RS aren't stupid. They're doing what they're doing for a reason - not out of some weird spite to give you as little information as possible. " Do you think it is acceptable that investors are having to try and piece this information together from the request numbers over on the other thread? The 'likes of me' who have invested with Ratesetter for many years, with a 6 figure sum invested, are exactly the kind of investors they need to keep." With all due respect, I think the likes of you (and there are many of you on this forum) didn't fully understand the product you were investing in and the risk you were taking for relatively small returns. This was never a high-street savings account. If you have that much invested, though, then I have even less concern for you given the struggles normal people across this country are going through right now.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 24, 2020 10:02:07 GMT
This is impossible because they cannot predict the future flow of liquidity. It would be complete guesswork and then the likes of you would only get angry when they were way off the mark.
Utter nonsense. No one is expecting an exact date, but if you know how much is in the queue, and how much you are able to release a week (which has been consistently 4 to 5M for the past few weeks), then it is a matter of simple arithmetic to at least provide some general guidance on timescales. Do you think it is acceptable that investors are having to try and piece this information together from the request numbers over on the other thread? The 'likes of me' who have invested with Ratesetter for many years, with a 6 figure sum invested, are exactly the kind of investors they need to keep. P2P is just one of many asset classes in my investment portfolio, spread across property, equities, bonds etc, and if I feel I have not been treated in an open and honest way I will simply put my money elsewhere in future. I am sure I am not alone.
I think you need to have a look at whats going on elsewhere. Ratesetter and returning miles more money and providing significantly more in the way of communication than any other platform. They are leading the way in terms of how they have responded to this pandemic.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Apr 24, 2020 11:19:53 GMT
Utter nonsense. No one is expecting an exact date, but if you know how much is in the queue, and how much you are able to release a week (which has been consistently 4 to 5M for the past few weeks), then it is a matter of simple arithmetic to at least provide some general guidance on timescales. Do you think it is acceptable that investors are having to try and piece this information together from the request numbers over on the other thread? The 'likes of me' who have invested with Ratesetter for many years, with a 6 figure sum invested, are exactly the kind of investors they need to keep. P2P is just one of many asset classes in my investment portfolio, spread across property, equities, bonds etc, and if I feel I have not been treated in an open and honest way I will simply put my money elsewhere in future. I am sure I am not alone.
I think you need to have a look at whats going on elsewhere. Ratesetter and returning miles more money and providing significantly more in the way of communication than any other platform. They are leading the way in terms of how they have responded to this pandemic. I wouldn't draw conclusions too quickly to be honest. Whilst I agree they're doing very well at present, if this was a game of football then I think we'd be about 5 minutes in to Liverpool v Barnsley in the 3rd round of the FA Cup. Barnsley, to everyone's surprise, have just taken the lead with a corner kick that bounded off Mo Salah's bum and into his own net. The remaining 85 minutes may tell a different story to the first 5, though all of us neutrals and certainly the Barnsley supporters are rooting for the underdogs in full force. The odds are heavily stacked against them nonetheless. I think it's a big question, Jeff, as to whether the tykes can make it through to face LendingCrowd in the 4th round, though it could potentially lead to a huge quarter final matchup with Assetz Capital. Yes, well, anyway I'm just going to abandon this tortured analogy. The thing is, RS's PF was declining at £1m/month prior to this crisis and has more than halved in less than a year. Before COVID-19 happened, we'd have been out of cash well before Christmas (and that, for once, is a statistic that extrapolates pretty well). So, it's difficult to overstate the level of challenge they have on their hands at the moment when you do factor that in.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 24, 2020 11:57:40 GMT
I think you need to have a look at whats going on elsewhere. Ratesetter and returning miles more money and providing significantly more in the way of communication than any other platform. They are leading the way in terms of how they have responded to this pandemic. I wouldn't draw conclusions too quickly to be honest. Whilst I agree they're doing very well at present, if this was a game of football then I think we'd be about 5 minutes in to Liverpool v Barnsley in the 3rd round of the FA Cup. Barnsley, to everyone's surprise, have just taken the lead with a corner kick that bounded off Mo Salah's bum and into his own net. The remaining 85 minutes may tell a different story to the first 5, though all of us neutrals and certainly the Barnsley supporters are rooting for the underdogs in full force. The odds are heavily stacked against them nonetheless. I think it's a big question, Jeff, as to whether the tykes can make it through to face LendingCrowd in the 4th round, though it could potentially lead to a huge quarter final matchup with Assetz Capital. Yes, well, anyway I'm just going to abandon this tortured analogy. The thing is, RS's PF was declining at £1m/month prior to this crisis and has more than halved in less than a year. Before COVID-19 happened, we'd have been out of cash well before Christmas (and that, for once, is a statistic that extrapolates pretty well). So, it's difficult to overstate the level of challenge they have on their hands at the moment when you do factor that in. We can only go with what we are seeing at the moment, and RS are in the lead on that metric. Every platform is having a hard time but it seems that RS are coping much better than the others. Even amongst the torrent of bad news that we have had across the board over the past month RS have managed to come up with a positive development, being the £4.65 million cash added to the provision fund, thereby increasing its size by over 50%.
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Post by shanghaiscouse on Apr 26, 2020 14:53:14 GMT
Guys, you all seem to be missing the point. RS does not, and never has, made money. It loses £15 - 20million a year and has relied on annual capital injections. As funds are pulled out, its income will drop further, and its losses grow. Sitting there saying 'oh I'll come back to it afted Covid' is rather missing the point, it won't be here after Covid. There is no IPO solution available to them. The only way out is to either sell equity at a very low price, which the existing investors will resist until the end, restructure their operations to massively lower costs, or merge with others so that one set of costs can be taken out completely. It is not going to be back to normal.
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Post by peertopier on Apr 28, 2020 23:43:42 GMT
I'm very pleased to have finally sold RS loans that joined the queue in late March. I was already concerned that I had too much P2P exposure before Covid 19 really affected things. It looks like a lot of people think the P2P market has too many operators, too many lenders and not enough quality loans. More operators are going to fail at some stage, or merge. I just saw this: "RateSetter CEO Rhydian Lewis believes coronavirus could herald the emergence of “huge confidence” in alternative lending platforms, as long as the industry gets through the next few months." www.altfi.com/article/6504_surviving-coronavirus-will-bring-huge-confidence-to-p2p-asset-class-says-ratesetter-chief |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 8:08:12 GMT
I'm very pleased to have finally sold RS loans that joined the queue in late March. I was already concerned that I had too much P2P exposure before Covid 19 really affected things. It looks like a lot of people think the P2P market has too many operators, too many lenders and not enough quality loans. More operators are going to fail at some stage, or merge. I just saw this: "RateSetter CEO Rhydian Lewis believes coronavirus could herald the emergence of “huge confidence” in alternative lending platforms, as long as the industry gets through the next few months." www.altfi.com/article/6504_surviving-coronavirus-will-bring-huge-confidence-to-p2p-asset-class-says-ratesetter-chiefThat doesn't tie in with others' experience listed in the main RYI thread. Are you sure you have the dates right?
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Post by erniec on Apr 29, 2020 9:06:26 GMT
I'm very pleased to have finally sold RS loans that joined the queue in late March. I was already concerned that I had too much P2P exposure before Covid 19 really affected things. It looks like a lot of people think the P2P market has too many operators, too many lenders and not enough quality loans. More operators are going to fail at some stage, or merge. I just saw this: "RateSetter CEO Rhydian Lewis believes coronavirus could herald the emergence of “huge confidence” in alternative lending platforms, as long as the industry gets through the next few months." www.altfi.com/article/6504_surviving-coronavirus-will-bring-huge-confidence-to-p2p-asset-class-says-ratesetter-chiefThat doesn't tie in with others' experience listed in the main RYI thread. Are you sure you have the dates right? I guess that the RYI loan was repaid, possibly early.
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aren't they just open and honest with their investors? They may slightly better than some their competitors in this regard, but that is still no excuse.
