alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 21, 2020 15:55:59 GMT
I really do not understand why some people on this forum try to extrapolate up the current AC repayment rate and claim that is useful information. AC has agreed to forbearance measures (whether they had much choice or not is debatable) so it is blindingly obvious that repayments will be extremely limited at the moment. This will not always be the case. It is like your mortgage lender giving you a installment break of three months and then after the second month writing to you to complain that "you will never pay the mortgage back at this rate". The rate the mortgage is being paid back during the installment break is not a useful indicator of the overall repayment period. Is this that complicated? Not at all complicated. Just reality tinted glasses. I wear the same ones. To really put the cat amongst the pigeons, I expect before this passes to see interest forgiveness. In my opinion I'd rather lose some interest than force sale with all those costs. Hope the I WANT MY MONEY BACK don't have a heart attack reading this . As to AC their track level has been praised many times. There will many wanting to invest ,me for one. Oh now that is just brilliant mikeme. Rarely do we come across someone capable of such rubbish. On the 17th April on the "QAA account investments queued thread" you wrote: "ALL Queued funds released just now! 5 figures" and "Ours 2 accounts withdrawal date 12th totalled more than £50K . I think they must be going through by date." Like a 4 year old child on christmas morning barely able to conceal your glee at getting your money out. And now you come along and say "there will be many wanting to invest, me for one". HAHAHAHA. Au contraire mikeme, it looks like you have managed to get your money out faster than anyone. No doubt you will come back with some excuse such as " I was only taking it out to donate it all to the NHS", but just as before you have been well and truly found out. Your type always are. So come on mikeme, lets have it. Can't wait for the next round of gibberish. The gift that keeps on giving.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 21, 2020 15:59:40 GMT
ian re "One thing for sure is they are certainly not acting in the best interests of all of their investors." - as even the very small number of AC investors that comment on this forum can't agree what's in the best interest of all investors, I doubt that is even possible. Of course, AC could have done what OEIC property funds sometimes do in times like this and simply stop all withdrawals for a number of months.
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Post by jasonnewman on Apr 21, 2020 16:23:55 GMT
Sadly such action is probably inevitable. What I really struggle to understand why any company would deliberately go out to alienate its biggest investors / customers. Given Stuart indicated there are less than 5000 investors (forbearance vote) one would imagine his team would be directly contacting anyone with over say £50k invested & placating them, not deliberately disadvantaging them. I certainly doubt AC will be treating their institutional investors with such contempt. I understand over £80m of capital was to be redeemed in the next couple of months - circa 20% of the loan book. I personally would have welcome the opportunity to have my share of that back. I shouldn’t be forced to invest redeemed capital in illiquid, riskier investments, for what is now a smaller return! On a personal note - How can it be right that funds held in the cash account have been invested against my wishes, into loans that are already in default! A FIFO / pro-rata return of funds is the right thing to do; with a hopefully temporary, winding down the loan book in an orderly manner. No one wants the administrators called in, but as things stand I am beginning to think it may be is the best option for above average balance investors. ACs actions presently appear to focus on keeping the platform running, drawing their salaries, and lending funds to borrowers who are increasingly likely to default. Their decision to not repay funds, in order, from the cash account, then 30 & 90 day accounts also gives them access to cheaper money increasing their profit, so why introduce fees? One thing for sure is they are certainly not acting in the best interests of all of their investors. stuartassetzcapital chris Hope your taking note of the above.
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ian
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Post by ian on Apr 21, 2020 17:10:00 GMT
ian re "One thing for sure is they are certainly not acting in the best interests of all of their investors." - as even the very small number of AC investors that comment on this forum can't agree what's in the best interest of all investors, I doubt that is even possible. Of course, AC could have done what OEIC property funds sometimes do in times like this and simply stop all withdrawals for a number of months. Your right - There is no ideal solution ... however the imho existing FIFO or prorata is far more equitable than the present situation. How can it be fair if some one has £2k invested they would get everything back when someone with £100k invested might only get £60k back. (If the business fails) At lease we were aware of the rules of engagement (fifo) and had reduced returns if we edged our bets to be first in the queue. Are AC going to average out the past 6 months returns as those who are no longer able to benefit from their decision to forsake return for liquidity. One thing I think we can all agree on is it is a ludicrous decision to alienate, unfairly discriminate your biggest customers / investors. Someone likened it to a Ratner moment. If I was a shareholder of AC I would probably want Stuart Laws head. It was / is an incredibly naive decision - if AC survive as we all hope, big investors will leave and probably make the business long term unsustainable. The final thing I would add is maybe only £20m of the £80m of funds to be redeemed will flow into AC - my big fear is that the majority of it will go to repay institutional investors.
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gt94sss2
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Post by gt94sss2 on Apr 21, 2020 17:11:54 GMT
It appears, the only way in which investors can immediately stop AC unfairly prejudicing against larger investors, is to seek an injunction to prevent any further withdrawals from AC, until an equitable process is put in place which takes account of the timing of withdrawal requests & lenders exposure to loans where funds are generated. Not wishing to comment on the rights or wrongs of AC’s decisions over QAA withdrawals but just wanted to check that you have really thought this through - you describe a ‘a short term’ impact if you have your way - but the Court system is affected by Covid just like everyone else leading to huge legal backlogs..
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Post by Harland Kearney on Apr 21, 2020 17:41:40 GMT
Imagine thinking that taking legal action against AC will save your money. If anything its going to guarantee a loss of unspeakable proportions not only to yourself (and most likely mostly to yourself with legal fees) but to all investors. Do you understand that, that overhalf the loan book is property, when no drawdowns happen you are unlikely to be awarded first charge security receivers as the contract is broken. You could be looking at 100% losses in these loans. (Take a look at FS 100% loss thread, it can and will happen to loans which undergo a platform melt down/legal closure) The cash AC holds is ring faced, it won't even be awarded to your court case. You'll be given a proportional amount which if your lucky would likely be 5-10% of your capital returned. I cant' get my head around any of this, its a joke. (the thought that legal action will magically generate your cash back) I actually agree with the fact that large investors are treated unfairly, but legal action really isn't going to assist anybody here. Please wait for loans to repay. Even if you had the fully equal pro-rata system, you are likely to be seeing a few quid more than anybody else each day. Not going to be a world of diffrence. Where its going to be a issue is when those big loans do repay. By then AC better have a good soultion to this issue, or alot of investors are going to get shafted. I am really expecting AC to return to a FIFO once those capital repayments and the UK economy goes from a crisis mode, to a recovery mode in full swing. Will be many more months.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 21, 2020 19:21:52 GMT
Imagine thinking that taking legal action against AC will save your money. If anything its going to guarantee a loss of unspeakable proportions not only to yourself (and most likely mostly to yourself with legal fees) but to all investors. Do you understand that, that overhalf the loan book is property, when no drawdowns happen you are unlikely to be awarded first charge security receivers as the contract is broken. You could be looking at 100% losses in these loans. (Take a look at FS 100% loss thread, it can and will happen to loans which undergo a platform melt down/legal closure) The cash AC holds is ring faced, it won't even be awarded to your court case. You'll be given a proportional amount which if your lucky would likely be 5-10% of your capital returned. I cant' get my head around any of this, its a joke. (the thought that legal action will magically generate your cash back) I actually agree with the fact that large investors are treated unfairly, but legal action really isn't going to assist anybody here. Please wait for loans to repay. Even if you had the fully equal pro-rata system, you are likely to be seeing a few quid more than anybody else each day. Not going to be a world of diffrence. Where its going to be a issue is when those big loans do repay. By then AC better have a good soultion to this issue, or alot of investors are going to get shafted. I am really expecting AC to return to a FIFO once those capital repayments and the UK economy goes from a crisis mode, to a recovery mode in full swing. Will be many more months. I don't really disagree with what you are saying (maybe some of the numbers), but I think the point you are missing is that the largest investors are already looking at suffering "losses of unspeakable proportions". What are they supposed to do in this situation? - they can either sit there and take or, more likely, do something about it. It is not sufficient to talk about AC returning to FIFO. The credibility and trust of this platform has gone completely. They need to take some action immediately. If they don't they are just going to end up drowning in a sea of complaints, legal cases and bad publicity.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 21, 2020 19:35:31 GMT
I am not one of them, but from Col etc some 'big investors' had put their life savings into an individual P2P platform, similarly in this case it may not be a question of they are large investors so can afford to wait or take a big loss, they may be in extreme difficulties compared to people who just put in a small proportion of their smaller funds.
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gmitz
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Post by gmitz on Apr 21, 2020 19:38:52 GMT
I think AC should stop any payments until further notice. I mean, what's the meaning of payments of £1.50 or £2.50 every other day, (not even every day)? That's what, £7500 or £12500 a day for all 5000 of us (providing all of us put a withdrawal request)? Even for the most desperate investor, £100 a month won't be much of a use. So, why is AC doing it? Anyone?
The other thing is, I don't think some of you guys are right about AC not carrying about the big investors or alienating them with their decisions. We just don't know. I remember reading an article more than a year ago about AC aiming to have half of their investments from institutional investors, investment funds. Since than, I am sure those institutional investors have more than half of the £335M currently invested in AC. None of us is really a big whale, we are more like gold fishes in a bowl. I don't believe any of us has invested more than £150,000.00 in AC at any given point in time, if you have that much money to invest in one platform or type of investment, you have too much money to manage them yourself. Half of £335M is £167.5M, divided by 5000 is £33,500.00, that is something I can believe.
So the real questions for me are where are all those institutional investors in all of this, are they treated the same way as us, were they having a separate forbearance vote? Do they get £1.50 every other day?
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 21, 2020 19:39:01 GMT
I am not one of them, but from Col etc some 'big investors' had put their life savings into an individual P2P platform, similarly in this case it may not be a question of they are large investors so can afford to wait or take a big loss, they may be in extreme difficulties compared to people who just put in a small proportion of their smaller funds. Yes. I have said it before, but in a population of 38000 investors (the number from AC's website) you are going to have a real mix of all sorts of people involved in this.
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ian
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Post by ian on Apr 21, 2020 19:44:40 GMT
I am not one of them, but from Col etc some 'big investors' had put their life savings into an individual P2P platform, similarly in this case it may not be a question of they are large investors so can afford to wait or take a big loss, they may be in extreme difficulties compared to people who just put in a small proportion of their smaller funds. Yes. I have said it before, but in a population of 38000 investors (the number from AC's website) you are going to have a real mix of all sorts of people involved in this. In Stuart’s Numbers Re forbearance the number of investors was less than 5000 .... actually may have got my maths may be more like 25,000
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 21, 2020 19:46:18 GMT
I think AC should stop any payments until further notice. I mean, what's the meaning of payments of £1.50 or £2.50 every other day, (not even every day)? That's what, £7500 or £12500 a day for all 5000 of us (providing all of us put a withdrawal request)? Even for the most desperate investor, £100 a month won't be much of a use. So, why is AC doing it? Anyone? The other thing is, I don't think some of you guys are right about AC not carrying about the big investors or alienating them with their decisions. We just don't know. I remember reading an article more than a year ago about AC aiming to have half of their investments from institutional investors, investment funds. Since than, I am sure those institutional investors have more than half of the £335M currently invested in AC. None of us is really a big whale, we are more like gold fishes in a bowl. I don't believe any of us has invested more than £150,000.00 in AC at any given point in time, if you have that much money to invest in one platform or type of investment, you have too much money to manage them yourself. Half of £335M is £167.5M, divided by 5000 is £33,500.00, that is something I can believe. So the real questions for me are where are all those institutional investors in all of this, are they treated the same way as us, were they having a separate forbearance vote? Do they get £1.50 every other day? The institutional investors legal departments would have made mincemeat of AC if they tried to treat them like us. They will have drawn up watertight legal contracts covering everything.
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ian
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Post by ian on Apr 21, 2020 19:49:59 GMT
I think AC should stop any payments until further notice. I mean, what's the meaning of payments of £1.50 or £2.50 every other day, (not even every day)? That's what, £7500 or £12500 a day for all 5000 of us (providing all of us put a withdrawal request)? Even for the most desperate investor, £100 a month won't be much of a use. So, why is AC doing it? Anyone? The other thing is, I don't think some of you guys are right about AC not carrying about the big investors or alienating them with their decisions. We just don't know. I remember reading an article more than a year ago about AC aiming to have half of their investments from institutional investors, investment funds. Since than, I am sure those institutional investors have more than half of the £335M currently invested in AC. None of us is really a big whale, we are more like gold fishes in a bowl. I don't believe any of us has invested more than £150,000.00 in AC at any given point in time, if you have that much money to invest in one platform or type of investment, you have too much money to manage them yourself. Half of £335M is £167.5M, divided by 5000 is £33,500.00, that is something I can believe. So the real questions for me are where are all those institutional investors in all of this, are they treated the same way as us, were they having a separate forbearance vote? Do they get £1.50 every other day? I have a huge concern institutional investors will be given priority as regards capital repayments, as a result of AC breaching covenants as a result of reduced portfolio values or number of defaults etc. I hope I’m wrong but strongly suspect there may be a repeat of 2008.
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Post by gobuchul on Apr 21, 2020 20:35:34 GMT
I don't believe any of us has invested more than £150,000.00 in AC at any given point in time ... I suspect this is not true. I know one person ....
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Apr 21, 2020 22:55:47 GMT
I don't believe any of us has invested more than £150,000.00 in AC at any given point in time ... I've had more than £200k in at one point
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