ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329 
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Apr 23, 2020 11:11:15 GMT
Looking at the repayments on my accounts I would hazard a guess AC have stopped redeeming any capital repayments (if there are any). I can only assume they have come to their senses and realised the pool system was discriminating against the majority of their retail investors by value, is not the way to go! What we as investors need assurance is that capital repayments & interest received, will either be made on the established FIFO basis or will be apportioned pro - Rata or in line with investors exposure to individual loans. Critically - We need transparency of payments to institutional investors to assure us we are treated fairly, at lease pro rata. Under the Pool system those with investments of less than Circa £2000 probably benefited, the institutional investors, investing £10’s of millions potentially benefitted & everyone else was probably screwed ! I starting to think collective action a la the Lendy action group may be the way to go. Point 3 addressed by Stuart here p2pindependentforum.com/post/382987/thread - so inline with my earlier suposition, no institutional involvement in access accounts.
|
|
ian
Posts: 342
Likes: 226
|
Post by ian on Apr 23, 2020 11:37:40 GMT
Looking at the repayments on my accounts I would hazard a guess AC have stopped redeeming any capital repayments (if there are any). I can only assume they have come to their senses and realised the pool system was discriminating against the majority of their retail investors by value, is not the way to go! What we as investors need assurance is that capital repayments & interest received, will either be made on the established FIFO basis or will be apportioned pro - Rata or in line with investors exposure to individual loans. Critically - We need transparency of payments to institutional investors to assure us we are treated fairly, at lease pro rata. Under the Pool system those with investments of less than Circa £2000 probably benefited, the institutional investors, investing £10’s of millions potentially benefitted & everyone else was probably screwed ! I starting to think collective action a la the Lendy action group may be the way to go. Point 3 addressed by Stuart here p2pindependentforum.com/post/382987/thread - so inline with my earlier suposition, no institutional involvement in access accounts. Thanks for the info I have responded below that post. For me that is vital information and good news for all. AC just now just need to revisit the ridiculous pooled system.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Apr 23, 2020 14:15:40 GMT
I suggest the original system wasn't fair either, but few (including AC) gave it much thought because it made no difference who might be ahead of them in the queue (given that any "queue" cleared in milliseconds). Imagine that, at the moment the run began, the first request in the queue was for £100k. That lender could have received every penny disbursed for several weeks, no other lenders getting a thing. Or that the rapidly-building queue was dominated by larger lenders who'd been gaming the system by lodging daily 30DAA withdrawal requests and cancelling them just before they were actioned (or reinvesting just after).No system is fair to everyone. Is sticking with the old system in new, entirely changed circumstances any fairer to AC lenders as a whole than devising a new system that better reflects the new reality? [Disclosure: 99%+ of my AC funds are in the MLA, so I've no axe to grind either way. And I too think a straight pro-rata distribution to all in the queue would have caused less angst, though made very little difference in reality over the next few months] Where do you get the amounts (£s) on the queue and where the withdrawals came from to support such a claim? As to 'gaming the system', do you mean "people who read that the system allowed withdrawals to be cancelled?". I would hope all lenders could read.
Its a hypothetical … the hint is in the 'imagine' bit that it follows on from Read but perhaps not understand … quite a bit of evidence of that floating around 
|
|
tjtl
Posts: 232
Likes: 351
|
Post by tjtl on Jun 5, 2020 6:12:23 GMT
I wonder if any spokesman for the self-styled "Justice4Investors" will give an update on their much heralded legal action having gone to so much time and expense getting legal opinions and the like? Have they done anything, I mean anything? Or are they , as they appeared , just bunch of rather feeble attention seekers who like dressing up as pretend super-heroes.
Despite the predictions of the imminent demise of AC, the company seems to be keeping going, is undertaking a new funding round, and have a management team who (while far from infallible) seem to be navigating the stormy waters pretty well.
And Justice4Investors? No where to be seen. Men against boys I suspect.
|
|
ian
Posts: 342
Likes: 226
|
Post by ian on Jun 5, 2020 7:36:53 GMT
I wonder if any spokesman for the self-styled "Justice4Investors" will give an update on their much heralded legal action having gone to so much time and expense getting legal opinions and the like? Have they done anything, I mean anything? Or are they , as they appeared , just bunch of rather feeble attention seekers who like dressing up as pretend super-heroes. Despite the predictions of the imminent demise of AC, the company seems to be keeping going, is undertaking a new funding round, and have a management team who (while far from infallible) seem to be navigating the stormy waters pretty well. And Justice4Investors? No where to be seen. Men against boys I suspect. It appears they pretty much got what they set out to achieve - the move which sees redeemed capital being allocated to holders of loans in line their access account holdings, delivers exactly what they set out to achieve. I just don’t understand why AC implemented the indefensible pool system in the first place.
|
|
rscal
Posts: 985
Likes: 537
|
Post by rscal on Jun 5, 2020 9:25:35 GMT
Does this mean there is no longer 'a queue'? I'm confused by that idea. Surely once a withdrawal request is made, it receives a response in the same tme frame as all existing withdrawal requests do? And so one could cancel and resume any request and only miss out while they have no 'open' request?
[And one reason AC changed to a pro-rata scheme for withdrawals is recgonising the inequity of investors holding multiple access accounts (with modest balances) compared with a single access account holder with a large investment - I have 4 AAs for instance and was receiving 4xequal payments]
|
|
ian
Posts: 342
Likes: 226
|
Post by ian on Jun 5, 2020 10:07:52 GMT
Does this mean there is no longer 'a queue'? I'm confused by that idea. Surely once a withdrawal request is made, it receives a response in the same tme frame as all existing withdrawal requests do? And so one could cancel and resume any request and only miss out while they have no 'open' request?
[And one reason AC changed to a pro-rata scheme for withdrawals is recgonising the inequity of investors holding multiple access accounts (with modest balances) compared with a single access account holder with a large investment - I have 4 AAs for instance and was receiving 4xequal payments]
As I understand it firstly you need your funds in the access account to be withdrawn - the 30/90 day period has lapsed. At that point distributions of capital and interest will be transferred to the cash account pro rata to your involvement in that loan - just like the GBB accounts. If you have £100 allocated to loan #1 and it is fully redeemed you will receive £100 ... not £1.79 as before  . This was the main bone of contention as 1000’s of smaller investors previously got funds allocated to their cash account despite having no (or smaller) participation in the loan capital that was redeemed.
|
|
|
|
Post by oppsididitagain on Jun 5, 2020 11:24:55 GMT
Does this mean there is no longer 'a queue'? I'm confused by that idea. Surely once a withdrawal request is made, it receives a response in the same tme frame as all existing withdrawal requests do? And so one could cancel and resume any request and only miss out while they have no 'open' request?
[And one reason AC changed to a pro-rata scheme for withdrawals is recgonising the inequity of investors holding multiple access accounts (with modest balances) compared with a single access account holder with a large investment - I have 4 AAs for instance and was receiving 4xequal payments]
As I understand it firstly you need your funds in the access account to be withdrawn - the 30/90 day period has lapsed. At that point distributions of capital and interest will be transferred to the cash account pro rata to your involvement in that loan - just like the GBB accounts. If you have £100 allocated to loan #1 and it is fully redeemed you will receive £100 ... not £1.79 as before . This was the main bone of contention as 1000’s of smaller investors previously got funds allocated to their cash account despite having no (or smaller) participation in the loan capital that was redeemed. Im happy its gone to a % based pooled repayment system. This is the fairer option IMHO. The bit in bold I dont believe to be correct for AA's. Its only for the old style GBBA, Property, green accounts Every time I spoke to AC they said, Its only shows where your money is invested for transparency reasons (something to do with FCA) but in principle you are in a big pool and its doesn't matter about the loans the dashboard shows. My account shows me that I have invested in amounts between 400-1500 worth of 1 loan. I dont think I will get all of that back if said loan redeems in full. I will just get a % and the void filled by something else. I maybe wrong, Maybe AC can tell us exactly how it works.
|
|
mrsb
Posts: 196
Likes: 102
|
Post by mrsb on Jun 5, 2020 11:40:01 GMT
As I understand it firstly you need your funds in the access account to be withdrawn - the 30/90 day period has lapsed. At that point distributions of capital and interest will be transferred to the cash account pro rata to your involvement in that loan - just like the GBB accounts. If you have £100 allocated to loan #1 and it is fully redeemed you will receive £100 ... not £1.79 as before . This was the main bone of contention as 1000’s of smaller investors previously got funds allocated to their cash account despite having no (or smaller) participation in the loan capital that was redeemed. Im happy its gone to a % based pooled repayment system. This is the fairer option IMHO. The bit in bold I dont believe to be correct for AA's. Its only for the old style GBBA, Property, green accounts Every time I spoke to AC they said, Its only shows where your money is invested for transparency reasons (something to do with FCA) but in principle you are in a big pool and its doesn't matter about the loans the dashboard shows. My account shows me that I have invested in amounts between 400-1500 worth of 1 loan. I dont think I will get all of that back if said loan redeems in full. I will just get a % and the void filled by something else. I maybe wrong, Maybe AC can tell us exactly how it works.Maybe Bears hang on to it until they're in open countryside.
|
|
iRobot
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,680
Likes: 2,477
|
Post by iRobot on Jun 5, 2020 11:43:09 GMT
Maybe AC can tell us exactly how it works. 
|
|
|
|
Post by davee39 on Jun 5, 2020 11:58:11 GMT
If you hold a larger part of a loan you will get a larger part of any repayment. However that could be less than 100% of the attributed holding if there is a need to increase cash reserves.
I also suspect the following ocurrs.
Loan parts might be sold by the Access Accounts to Manual loan holders, these distributions will add to the cash holdings in the AA and also a re-allocation of loan part holdings.
When the cash float rises above a certain level there will be a payout in proportion to the total holding
|
|
dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
Posts: 746
Likes: 654
|
Post by dead-money on Jun 5, 2020 16:48:15 GMT
ian said:
"If you have £100 allocated to loan #1 and it is fully redeemed you will receive £100 ... not £1.79 as before"
The poor boy really doesn't have a clue I'm afraid. Expect angy rants from sock puppets when he realises he's got it wrong again.
|
|
shimself
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 1,171
|
Post by shimself on Jun 5, 2020 18:18:24 GMT
ian said:
"If you have £100 allocated to loan #1 and it is fully redeemed you will receive £100 ... not £1.79 as before"
The poor boy really doesn't have a clue I'm afraid. Expect angy rants from sock puppets when he realises he's got it wrong again.
Please be nicer Please say what Ian should have said then, because the start was excellent "If you have £100 allocated to loan #1 and it is fully redeemed you will receive ........
|
|
SteveT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,875
Likes: 7,924
|
Post by SteveT on Jun 5, 2020 19:05:20 GMT
ian said:
"If you have £100 allocated to loan #1 and it is fully redeemed you will receive £100 ... not £1.79 as before"
The poor boy really doesn't have a clue I'm afraid. Expect angy rants from sock puppets when he realises he's got it wrong again.
Please be nicer Please say what Ian should have said then, because the start was excellent "If you have £100 allocated to loan #1 and it is fully redeemed you will receive ........ .... 100 times more than someone with £1 allocated to loan #1
|
|
dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
Posts: 746
Likes: 654
|
Post by dead-money on Jun 6, 2020 8:37:08 GMT
Please be nicer Please say what Ian should have said then, because the start was excellent "If you have £100 allocated to loan #1 and it is fully redeemed you will receive ........ .... 100 times more than someone with £1 allocated to loan #1
True, and that amount could be anything between zero and infinity, it's entirely at AC's discretion.
Monies received will be held within the access account for; the provision fund, funding future tranches, funding future interest payments, funding new loans (when they restart).
Best to view the Access Accounts as delegated discretionary trust accounts. (You might be the beneficial owner, but you have no say in how they are managed)
|
|
. This was the main bone of contention as 1000’s of smaller investors previously got funds allocated to their cash account despite having no (or smaller) participation in the loan capital that was redeemed. 
