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Post by bracknellboy on Jul 4, 2020 8:31:51 GMT
I'm sorry zlb , but with the greatest respect, having re-read your post several times I still haven't got the faintest idea what that load of guff is all about.Oh ,and by the way, what in God's name is a "drama therapist"?Someone you turn to after binge watching too many episodes of East Enders during lockdown ? (and by the way, what in God's name is East Enders)
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starfished
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Post by starfished on Jul 4, 2020 9:49:44 GMT
I know "someone" who did a Maths A level and also a Theater studies A level. They would say the Theater studies A Level was significantly harder than the Maths A level for them... Yes they went onto University and focused on the Maths while other friends did Arts based degrees (that now reflects in their differing salaray levels years later, how much so is a different conversation). In anycase, they would say the Theatre Studies A Level stuff was even harder than the Maths degree stuff as well (but not the professional exam they did after University, that was hard work). While I do think fewer people should be going to university, I don't think your sciences are necessarily "harder" subjects. Just different...
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Post by bernythedolt on Jul 4, 2020 11:56:28 GMT
I know "someone" who did a Maths A level and also a Theater studies A level. They would say the Theater studies A Level was significantly harder than the Maths A level for them... Yes they went onto University and focused on the Maths while other friends did Arts based degrees (that now reflects in their differing salaray levels years later, how much so is a different conversation). In anycase, they would say the Theatre Studies A Level stuff was even harder than the Maths degree stuff as well (but not the professional exam they did after University, that was hard work). While I do think fewer people should be going to university, I don't think your sciences are necessarily "harder" subjects. Just different... Seriously? An A level in luvvies is harder than a maths degree? Seems we both had a lucky break doing the latter then... 😁😁 To be fair, I guess I'd find an A level in Albanian or Camel Hygiene harder than a degree in the sciences, so I do see where you're coming from. I could never dismiss my degree as anything less than sheer hard work though. It took me 8 years of slog with the OU, whilst holding down a full time job. (I couldn't afford university at 18, having grown up in one of those council houses without central heating mentioned upthread... when you find yourself unpicking the net curtains from the ice formed on the INSIDE of your bedroom window 😬, you just instinctively know you have to go straight out to work ASAP).
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jul 4, 2020 12:18:20 GMT
Did the discussion relate to this: www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/22/wealth-tax-rise-could-raise-174bn-tackle-covid-19-expert-says ? I don't believe the current (right wing) government will do it. Many of the wealthy will simply leave / avoid and the Tories will have killed off their golden geese. But as a nation we appear to have champagne tastes with beer money attitudes when it comes to taxation regarding public health care, aged care and welfare payments. I think there are legitimate discussions to be had regarding taxation in general (current or deferred) and particularly of individuals who have benefited directly from state support over and above normal expectation during this crisis. Which is why you tax property not wealth. Property can't leave.I beg to differ. If a house starts to slide from assets to liabilities, some people will sell and leave. In my own case, I'm already on the fence for other reasons. If my council tax doubled that might be the trigger. If I did go I was thinking of renting my house out. If the council tax increased, presumably I'd be able to charge more in rent. At the end of the day, while we live in a capitalist system assets are owned. The only way to get true equality would be to move to communism but then you'd end up move people being equally poor and those setting the rules being susbstantially more equal than the others.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jul 4, 2020 12:49:59 GMT
Which is why you tax property not wealth. Property can't leave. I beg to differ. If a house starts to slide from assets to liabilities, some people will sell and leave. In my own case, I'm already on the fence for other reasons. If my council tax doubled that might be the trigger. If I did go I was thinking of renting my house out. If the council tax increased, presumably I'd be able to charge more in rent.
At the end of the day, while we live in a capitalist system assets are owned. The only way to get true equality would be to move to communism but then you'd end up move people being equally poor and those setting the rules being susbstantially more equal than the others. Not sure I understand your logic here. Not in the BTL game, but my understanding fro my kids renting is that the tenant is (typically) responsible for paying the CT. So if it doubles, they may need to look at smaller / cheaper properties as it's unlikely their incomes will have risen accordingly. Might there actually be an argument that you'd need to reduce rent to keep it affordable? (Although, maybe not if the increase was equal across the country, and due to supply/demand, etc.)
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Jul 4, 2020 13:36:38 GMT
While I do think fewer people should be going to university, I don't think your sciences are necessarily "harder" subjects. Just different... starfished The underlying point here is managing expectations. By all means go do an arts degree, just don't expect it to open the same doors for you in the real-world job market as someone who spent three years of hard graft in the sciences. The real-world is tough and competitive, don't un-necessarily limit your options by doing soft option degrees. Bit of an extreme example, but I know of someone who left school, did a degree in the sciences and walked straight into a 6-figure salary job writing algorithms for a silicon valley tech company. Someone with a Drama degree wouldn't get past the initial sift dustbin. You're right they wouldn't. But just imagine the hissy fit they'd throw
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jul 4, 2020 14:05:54 GMT
I beg to differ. If a house starts to slide from assets to liabilities, some people will sell and leave. In my own case, I'm already on the fence for other reasons. If my council tax doubled that might be the trigger. If I did go I was thinking of renting my house out. If the council tax increased, presumably I'd be able to charge more in rent.
At the end of the day, while we live in a capitalist system assets are owned. The only way to get true equality would be to move to communism but then you'd end up move people being equally poor and those setting the rules being susbstantially more equal than the others. Not sure I understand your logic here. Not in the BTL game, but my understanding fro my kids renting is that the tenant is (typically) responsible for paying the CT. So if it doubles, they may need to look at smaller / cheaper properties as it's unlikely their incomes will have risen accordingly. Might there actually be an argument that you'd need to reduce rent to keep it affordable? (Although, maybe not if the increase was equal across the country, and due to supply/demand, etc.) Yes that's a fair point although I suppose "wealth tax" would seem to imply a tax like council tax but payable by the owner so in a sense doubling council tax wouldn't be adding any wealth taxes at all. I suppose I SHOULD have said an additional owner based tax.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jul 4, 2020 18:24:19 GMT
Another maths degree here. Having said that, I'd have found little else more challenging than a theatre studies a level, so I'm not really surprised others who are mathematically minded found theatre studies so tricky.
Having said that, I also found my degree to be 3 years (+1 for a master's) to be basically just pissing around. Looking back perhaps I should have done more than that time.. the PhD was less pissing around!
Back to wealth tax - yeah right. No chance of this in the UK in anything like the way it's commonly understood. On almost every level it's a nonstarter - except being popular among the envious class (which spans working/middle/and up)
Pensions are number one - triple lock and tax relief sure to go as I see it. I'm still not convinced that Rishi has not pulled a total blinder and the economy may go back to the way it was very very fast - unlikely but I think more likely than supposed.
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d61
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Post by d61 on Jul 7, 2020 7:20:52 GMT
The UK will need to raise a lot of money to pay for the crazy spending by Government of late. Taxing wealth (the rich?) is always a popular proposal with the poorer members of society (90%). But is it fair and will it stick : will the rich not just relocate.... I prefer tax on consumption which will impact more but will allow choice.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jul 7, 2020 7:52:37 GMT
I don't see a wealth tax being imposed by a Conservative government. Even with another flavour of government, we don't currently have a basis for calculation or a method of calculation. There are also all sorts of problems if the assets / wealth assessed are not liquid - how might someone subject to the tax be expected to pay it? Many would transfer wealth to things that would be easier to hide. Art / physical gold, for example.
One tax change that I would like to see is National Insurance. I think that those who choose to work beyond pension age should continue to be subject to this tax (otherwise it is a bit tax cut for those who arguably need it least). Additionally, the upper limit on earnings subject to NI can also be removed.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jul 7, 2020 9:25:35 GMT
One tax change that I would like to see is National Insurance. I think that those who choose to work beyond pension age should continue to be subject to this tax (otherwise it is a bit tax cut for those who arguably need it least). Additionally, the upper limit on earnings subject to NI can also be removed.are these obscure bits of our tax system that I wasn't aware of ? As far as I understood, whether you are beyond pension age or not is immaterial as to whether your employed earnings are subject to NI. It simply isn't a factor.*
Likewise, there is no upper limit on earnings subject to NI. The employee rate does drop from 12% to 2% on the marginal bit above a certain level, although the employer rate does not, it remains the same.
*Though now you mention it, there is an arguable point that there should or could be: namely that since you stop accruing further state pension entitlement after you've reached a certain number of years (35) of sufficient NI contributions, then there is an argument that your contributions should drop.
Of course, the whole NI vs. Income Tax has become a complete charade/mess.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jul 7, 2020 9:30:49 GMT
One tax change that I would like to see is National Insurance. I think that those who choose to work beyond pension age should continue to be subject to this tax (otherwise it is a bit tax cut for those who arguably need it least). Additionally, the upper limit on earnings subject to NI can also be removed.are these obscure bits of our tax system that I wasn't aware of ? As far as I understood, whether you are beyond pension age or not is immaterial as to whether your employed earnings are subject to NI. It simply isn't a factor.*
Likewise, there is no upper limit on earnings subject to NI. The employee rate does drop from 12% to 2% on the marginal bit above a certain level, although the employer rate does not, it remains the same.
*Though now you mention it, there is an arguable point that there should or could be: namely that since you stop accruing further state pension entitlement after you've reached a certain number of years (35) of sufficient NI contributions, then there is an argument that your contributions should drop.
Of course, the whole NI vs. Income Tax has become a complete charade/mess.
"You do not pay National Insurance after you reach State Pension age - unless you’re self-employed and pay Class 4 contributions" ( Gov UK)
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Post by bracknellboy on Jul 7, 2020 10:01:08 GMT
are these obscure bits of our tax system that I wasn't aware of ? As far as I understood, whether you are beyond pension age or not is immaterial as to whether your employed earnings are subject to NI. It simply isn't a factor.*
Likewise, there is no upper limit on earnings subject to NI. The employee rate does drop from 12% to 2% on the marginal bit above a certain level, although the employer rate does not, it remains the same.
*Though now you mention it, there is an arguable point that there should or could be: namely that since you stop accruing further state pension entitlement after you've reached a certain number of years (35) of sufficient NI contributions, then there is an argument that your contributions should drop.
Of course, the whole NI vs. Income Tax has become a complete charade/mess.
"You do not pay National Insurance after you reach State Pension age - unless you’re self-employed and pay Class 4 contributions" ( Gov UK) Wow. Well its good to learn something new each day. My original quick search hadn't found that either.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Jul 8, 2020 11:07:45 GMT
Routes into careers need to be opened up yes. A lot of postgraduate professions are just that, so how would drama therapists get onto drama therapist post-grad courses, if not via a drama degree? Career change is locked by the closure of what was traditional adult education owing to funding cuts, and now if you want to change career you have to shell out 9k just to work in a different sector - the requirement for degrees and postgrads is set by the managerialist employers who only know how to recruit and financially reward management skills. I'm sorry zlb , but with the greatest respect, having re-read your post several times I still haven't got the faintest idea what that load of guff is all about.Oh ,and by the way, what in God's name is a "drama therapist"? I tried to fit a lot into a brief sentence. I do a lot of looking things up on the internet including the career of drama therapist. It's akin to art therapist. Managerialism is harder to find clear definitions of online. It is the devaluing of specialist skills such that managers start to not understand or respect what other jobs do nor the specialist knowledge they require to the extent that job descriptions start to not have the specialist knowledge required for the job. There are many factors in this, such as success in the workplace is based on the capacity to climb the ladder by personality, not by skill or intelligence. We are to have five careers now, in a lifetime. The opportunity to change career as an adult (not just moving into management), should not require a £9k postgraduate qualification as the only route to prove capability, yet that is becoming the case.
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