ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 27, 2020 22:24:52 GMT
I've spoken to the Financial Ombudsman and have used the service before - it was very good last time. They won't really start doing anything until 8 weeks after the event you are complaining about so its not worth contacting them yet. The date is getting closer though - 8 weeks from March 12th is May 7th. I will be submitting my complaint on that date and suggest all other investors who have been impacted by the pool system to do the same. I will be claiming compensation for financial loss, non-financial loss and interest (all within the remit of the FOS). The FOS will conduct a full investigation and, unlike with us, AC can't just ignore them and hope they go away. So you submitted your complaint about a pooling system to AC on 12th March before they had even announced the system was going to a pool or are you complaining about something else? FOS probably wont start doing anything for quite a bit longer as last I heard they had a bit of a backlog … 4 weeks to respond, 4 months or longer to allocate the case to a handler
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happy
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Post by happy on Apr 28, 2020 5:36:59 GMT
2) Yes, that's the use of the word queue. AFAICS There is no reference to a 'queue' in any shape or form in KAI. In fact there is no reference to a system for managing the withdrawal of funds at all. AFAIA AC has always stated that withdrawals should be instant in normal circumstances but not guaranteed. So the existence of a queue is only revealed in an after the fact explanation of how the newly revealed queue is going to work and amending how the never actually referenced before queue wasn't actually working in the first place because there hadn't actually been a queue anyway. I struggle to see the logic in an argument that something has been misrepresented if it hasn't been represented at all. There is logic if your sole intention is, by continually trying to show AC in a bad light, to attempt to force / coerce/ shame AC management into changing the queue for AAs to first come first served. Unfortunately none of these posters actually realise there is no money right now to pay them back and won't be until forebearance is over and things return to some sense of normality. So any discussion as to the structure of any queue is unfortunately a mute point, something they seem unable to understand. They don't understand or accept anything that the many experienced posters here have shared, they are obviously not here to learn anything, which is a shame as there are many things they obviously don't know, such as: - How GLDV work and that development loans are risky and potential residual value can fluctuate until the development is complete. This is normal for these types of loans an not a function af appalling DD by AC as they claim. My many years of P2P experience tells me that, whilst not perfect, AC DD has always been among the best.
- That the removed "withdraw all" function for repayments on the AA accounts has never actually withdrawn capital as due to the fact you were invested in a cash/asset hybrid collective fund you could only ever automatically withdraw any interest payments. If you wanted to withdraw capital you always had to request a separate capital withdrawal for a specific amounts, which you can still do. This is now being touted as a basis for a legal challenge by these shillers. Really! you kidding me aren't you.....you need to getyour facts straight before talking legal chaps.
- That most AC loans are not amortising and therefore they don't return capital every month, hence why you might have to wait until lthe loan matures to get your capital back unlike most of the loans at places like RS that I know they love so much.
If it does not fit their narative it is ignored. Total waste of time engaging with this bunch of what seem like angry bully boys who seem incapable of recognising that the economic world has just been shaken to it's core and all bets are now off predicting where the future will lead us They are not here to share, or to learn, or perhaps support. They are here to simply to ram their misplaced anger at their own ill-informed investment choices in everybody's faces until they get what they want.
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alender
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Post by alender on Apr 28, 2020 5:44:37 GMT
AFAICS There is no reference to a 'queue' in any shape or form in KAI. In fact there is no reference to a system for managing the withdrawal of funds at all. AFAIA AC has always stated that withdrawals should be instant in normal circumstances but not guaranteed. So the existence of a queue is only revealed in an after the fact explanation of how the newly revealed queue is going to work and amending how the never actually referenced before queue wasn't actually working in the first place because there hadn't actually been a queue anyway. I struggle to see the logic in an argument that something has been misrepresented if it hasn't been represented at all. - That the "withdraw all" function for repayments on the AA accounts never actually withdrawn capital as due to the fact you were invested in a cash/asset hybrid collective fund you could only ever automatically withdraw any interest payments. If you wanted to withdraw capital you always had to request a separate capital withdrawal for a specific amounts, which you can still do. This is now being touted as a basis for a legal challenge by these shillers. Really! you kidding me aren't you.....you need to getyour facts straight before talking legal chaps.
I really wish you had told AC the "withdraw all" function for repayments on the AA accounts never actually withdrawn capital because they did not know this as they advised me on the phone I could use this function to withdraw capital.
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happy
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Post by happy on Apr 28, 2020 5:57:35 GMT
- That the "withdraw all" function for repayments on the AA accounts never actually withdrawn capital as due to the fact you were invested in a cash/asset hybrid collective fund you could only ever automatically withdraw any interest payments. If you wanted to withdraw capital you always had to request a separate capital withdrawal for a specific amounts, which you can still do. This is now being touted as a basis for a legal challenge by these shillers. Really! you kidding me aren't you.....you need to getyour facts straight before talking legal chaps.
I really wish you had told AC the "withdraw all" function for repayments on the AA accounts never actually withdrawn capital because they did not know this as they advised me on the phone I could use this function to withdraw capital. I think this is why it was removed for the access accounts as it was confusing people. You have always had the 'withdraw' option which queues a withdrawal from the cash pool, now withdrawal queue, and in my experience it was the only was to ever get capital out of any of the access accounts. As you don't really own the loans parts directly, you own a share of a pool of loan parts and cash. It was the cash element of the pool that facilitated the capital withdrawal. function.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Apr 28, 2020 6:26:11 GMT
IMHO.
I see there has been mention that the access accounts may be some sort of hybrid collective scheme.
I seriously hope this is not the case and hope AC confirm this. I also hope AC have never told or inferred this.
AC are definitely not authorised and regulated for an sort of collective scheme. There are statutory instruments that make is clear p2p authorisation and regulation does not cover collective investment schemes of any sort.
AC are regulated for client money and Operating an electronic system in relation to lending.
Unauthorised collective investment schemes are unlawful. There are other authorisation and regulation that covers collective investment such as AIFMD.
My assumption is any uninvested cash the the access accounts in held in segregated client money accounts. Client money is covered by CASS.
However AC decribe or operate the Access Accounts they can never be called or appear to be collective investments.
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happy
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Post by happy on Apr 28, 2020 6:44:16 GMT
IMHO. I see there has been mention that the access accounts may be some sort of hybrid collective scheme. I seriously hope this is not the case and hope AC confirm this. I also hope AC have never told or inferred this. AC are definitely not authorised and regulated for an sort of collective scheme. There are statutory instruments that make is clear p2p authorisation and regulation does not cover collective investment schemes of any sort. AC are regulated for client money and Operating an electronic system in relation to lending. Unauthorised collective investment schemes are unlawful. There are other authorisation and regulation that covers collective investment such as AIFMD. My assumption is any uninvested cash the the access accounts in held in segregated client money accounts. Client money is covered by CASS. However AC decribe or operate the Access Accounts they can never be called or appear to be collective investments. I used the term hybrid and collective by way of comparison only and I am obviously not suggesting that AC is doing anything that is outside their P2P operating remit. IFAIU, as investors in the AAs do have loan certificates issued they do hold P2P confirming loans. Additionally, AC has been audited by the FCA as conforming to the regulations governing P2P so I would feel it is unlikely they do not. Lets say perhaps that there is an abstraction layer that exists between the individual investments and the underlying loans/cash pool. The cash element of the AA funds is there to provide liquidity and operational efficiency but as I understand it this would not need to segregated as it constitutes invested money in the platform and therefore would not be subject to any client money segregation rules.
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alender
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Post by alender on Apr 28, 2020 7:05:18 GMT
IMHO. I see there has been mention that the access accounts may be some sort of hybrid collective scheme. I seriously hope this is not the case and hope AC confirm this. I also hope AC have never told or inferred this. AC are definitely not authorised and regulated for an sort of collective scheme. There are statutory instruments that make is clear p2p authorisation and regulation does not cover collective investment schemes of any sort. AC are regulated for client money and Operating an electronic system in relation to lending. Unauthorised collective investment schemes are unlawful. There are other authorisation and regulation that covers collective investment such as AIFMD. My assumption is any uninvested cash the the access accounts in held in segregated client money accounts. Client money is covered by CASS. However AC decribe or operate the Access Accounts they can never be called or appear to be collective investments. From Stuart's messages it looks likely they are going to create some sort of Financial Instrument AKA an ABS, however it will be more complicated than an ABS as it will contain 3 elements. A loan book where the loan parts are constantly changing, a cash element and the PF. Also a withdraw system at par for small holders.
This instrument will be traded on the AC platform at a discount.
The holder of the instrument can either exit via withdraw a pool system or selling the instrument to another buyer (if available).
For small investors it is anticipated that the holder will be able to get out at par via the withdraw a pool system with a delay, for larger holding it is unlikely
to able to get much out via the withdraw a pool system for a considerable length of time if at all.
Therefore this will be partially suitable for small investors willing to take a risk as they are likely to make a capital gain by using the withdraw a pool system and interest.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Apr 28, 2020 7:45:14 GMT
So you submitted your complaint about a pooling system to AC on 12th March before they had even announced the system was going to a pool or are you complaining about something else? FOS probably wont start doing anything for quite a bit longer as last I heard they had a bit of a backlog … 4 weeks to respond, 4 months or longer to allocate the case to a handler errr....no. Go and read it again, theres a good lad. I said I am submitting my complaint on May 7th which is (give or take a day) 8 weeks after the pooling system came in. The FOS system may take a few months but it doesn't matter as all damages, compensation and interest are backdated. The idea is that they put you back in the position that you should have been had the event not happened. Do the FOS entertain submissions where the 'at fault' Firm's formal complaints procedure hasn't already been observed? Edit: if they do, I'm confused as to how / where / why the 8 weeks becomes a factor.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 28, 2020 7:56:38 GMT
errr....no. Go and read it again, theres a good lad. I said I am submitting my complaint on May 7th which is (give or take a day) 8 weeks after the pooling system came in. The FOS system may take a few months but it doesn't matter as all damages, compensation and interest are backdated. The idea is that they put you back in the position that you should have been had the event not happened. Do the FOS entertain submissions where the 'at fault' Firm's formal complaints procedure hasn't already been observed? Edit: if they do, I'm confused as to how / where / why the 8 weeks becomes a factor. The 8 weeks gives the firm a chance to put things right themselves before the FOS get involved, otherwise the FOS would get bombarded with issues which could ultimately have been resolved between the firm and the customer. If after 8 weeks it is clear that the issue has not been resolved and the firm is unwilling to respond to the customers requests then the FOS will get involved to rectify the situation.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 28, 2020 8:06:52 GMT
From Stuart's messages it looks likely they are going to create some sort of Financial Instrument AKA an ABS, however it will be more complicated than an ABS as it will contain 3 elements. A loan book where the loan parts are constantly changing, a cash element and the PF. Also a withdraw system at par for small holders.
This instrument will be traded on the AC platform at a discount. The holder of the instrument can either exit via withdraw a pool system or selling the instrument to another buyer (if available). No (again), nothing new will need to be created; the "instrument" you describe is the Access Account itself. Existing Access Account holdings will simply be trade-able from one lender to another at a discount they're both happy with. Once traded, such holdings will be indistinguishable from any other Access Account holding. Eg. Lenders X and Y both have £1000 holdings in the QAA and £1000 cash. X offers half of his QAA holding (£500) for sale at 20% discount, which Y chooses to buy (for £400). After the trade, X holds £500 in the QAA and has £1400 cash. Y has £1500 in the QAA and £600 cash.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 28, 2020 8:27:15 GMT
So you submitted your complaint about a pooling system to AC on 12th March before they had even announced the system was going to a pool or are you complaining about something else? FOS probably wont start doing anything for quite a bit longer as last I heard they had a bit of a backlog … 4 weeks to respond, 4 months or longer to allocate the case to a handler errr....no. Go and read it again, theres a good lad. I said I am submitting my complaint on May 7th which is (give or take a day) 8 weeks after the pooling system came in. The FOS system may take a few months but it doesn't matter as all damages, compensation and interest are backdated. The idea is that they put you back in the position that you should have been had the event not happened. I did. The FOS requires you to raise the issue with the platform first, they have 8 weeks to provide a satisfactory response then you can go to the FOS if they don't. My confusion from reading your statement is that you seem to have either not to have complained or not waited the eight weeks for response. (I don't think anonymous forum posts count as complaints) Is there some reason you don't have to follow the normal procedure? The point about time is you argue the platform is going to collapse in the near future at which point FOS complaints fall as they have no powers against administration. Compensation is only one option of course. Polling system came in on 19th AIUI, so that's 14th May give or take a week.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 28, 2020 8:38:59 GMT
errr....no. Go and read it again, theres a good lad. I said I am submitting my complaint on May 7th which is (give or take a day) 8 weeks after the pooling system came in. The FOS system may take a few months but it doesn't matter as all damages, compensation and interest are backdated. The idea is that they put you back in the position that you should have been had the event not happened. I did. The FOS requires you to raise the issue with the platform first, they have 8 weeks to provide a satisfactory response then you can go to the FOS if they don't. My confusion from reading your statement is that you seem to have either not to have complained or not waited the eight weeks for response. (I don't think anonymous forum posts count as complaints) Is there some reason you don't have to follow the normal procedure? The point about time is you argue the platform is going to collapse in the near future at which point FOS complaints fall as they have no powers against administration. Compensation is only one option of course. Polling system came in on 19th AIUI, so that's 14th May give or take a week. I complained to AC as soon as they changed the system. I have not had a satisfactory response, therefore I am going to the FOS. I will do a separate thread on this because there appears to be some confusion over it.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Apr 28, 2020 8:44:36 GMT
Do the FOS entertain submissions where the 'at fault' Firm's formal complaints procedure hasn't already been observed? Edit: if they do, I'm confused as to how / where / why the 8 weeks becomes a factor. The 8 weeks gives the firm a chance to put things right themselves before the FOS get involved, otherwise the FOS would get bombarded with issues which could ultimately have been resolved between the firm and the customer. If after 8 weeks it is clear that the issue has not been resolved and the firm is unwilling to respond to the customers requests then the FOS will get involved to rectify the situation. Fair enough; and on the FOS' complaints submission form, there is the option to reply 'no' to the question: " have you already complained to the business?". Another snippet from the FOS' website (their bold): "How long it takes It is currently taking around 7 months for us to allocate a complaint about investments to a case handler for review. Although it may take longer if your complaint is about spread betting or crowdfunding, or certain other of the most complex cases we receive – where it can take up to 9 months."
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 28, 2020 9:00:10 GMT
errr....no. Go and read it again, theres a good lad. I said I am submitting my complaint on May 7th which is (give or take a day) 8 weeks after the pooling system came in. The FOS system may take a few months but it doesn't matter as all damages, compensation and interest are backdated. The idea is that they put you back in the position that you should have been had the event not happened. I did. The FOS requires you to raise the issue with the platform first, they have 8 weeks to provide a satisfactory response then you can go to the FOS if they don't. My confusion from reading your statement is that you seem to have either not to have complained or not waited the eight weeks for response. (I don't think anonymous forum posts count as complaints) Is there some reason you don't have to follow the normal procedure? The point about time is you argue the platform is going to collapse in the near future at which point FOS complaints fall as they have no powers against administration. Compensation is only one option of course. Polling system came in on 19th AIUI, so that's 14th May give or take a week. I complained to AC as soon as the pool was introduced, as did others
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Apr 28, 2020 9:03:27 GMT
The 8 weeks gives the firm a chance to put things right themselves before the FOS get involved, otherwise the FOS would get bombarded with issues which could ultimately have been resolved between the firm and the customer. If after 8 weeks it is clear that the issue has not been resolved and the firm is unwilling to respond to the customers requests then the FOS will get involved to rectify the situation. Fair enough; and on the FOS' complaints submission form, there is the option to reply 'no' to the question: " have you already complained to the business?". Another snippet from the FOS' website (their bold): "How long it takes It is currently taking around 7 months for us to allocate a complaint about investments to a case handler for review. Although it may take longer if your complaint is about spread betting or crowdfunding, or certain other of the most complex cases we receive – where it can take up to 9 months." See the new thread - I don't understand why you think people would be ticking "no" Just because it takes a while doesn't mean it shouldn't be done!! If everyone took that attitude then people would just get walked over all the time. As I said, all the compensation and damages get backdated. Interest is payable at 8%. Quite honestly, when people are looking at years and decades to get their money out of AC a wait of 9 months is a drop in the ocean.
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