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Post by honda2ner on Apr 28, 2020 14:19:12 GMT
A sizeable discount would attract my money (and I suspect quite a few others as we aren't all suicidal due to the sensible temporary changes AC have made to look after lenders collectively instead of a wealthy few). Yes, I might flip it back up for sale as I do with most of my MLA holdings but the money isn't going off the platform when it sells, it's going back into either the MLA or more AA discounted loans. This should supercharge the queue and get some real movement going, hopefully. With enough movement AC can go back to FIFO queuing. Anything is better than the loan repayments exit which is all we have at the moment for the AAs. My point is this is not new money, in your case you as you say you might flip for a quick profit. However some will just take the profit and run. Then your point is completely wrong as I stated very clearly that this would attract my money not redistribute it from current holdings. In case you are still struggling, I WILL PUT IN MORE MONEY FROM MY BANK ACCOUNT. That will reduce the queue but not necessarily your position in it. Do you understand that?
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Apr 28, 2020 15:31:43 GMT
IMHO
I very much doubt the government or FCA ever envisaged what AC have and are creating with the Access Accounts when they created the P2P legislation and regulations.
We are very sadly in extremely challenging times with peoples health and wellbeing with lots of knock on effects. AC are trying to be helpful.
I do hope AC take their time and haven't /don't do anything even potentially risky in terms of the regulations. It is simply not worth the risk for any lender or borrower or staff member.
Chris and his team are great, am sure they can code anything, and I don't doubt his integrity at all. Please just don't end up with something that potentially pushes the boundaries of what AC are authorised and regulated to do so far that it may cause issues for anyone later.
I am all for creativity with fintech.
But we can't end up with something that looks like clever technology or clever wording is used to attempt to get round the spirit of the regulations in terms of what AC are authorised to do and what lenders are entitled to in terms of access to client money and borrower repayments, ending up with a potential mess later on. There are more knowledgeable people than me on this forum and at AC who know what is reasonable.
There does seem to be some valid concerns that it would be good for AC to respond to. I fear it is simply easier for AC to say very little at the moment other than it is important to fund tranche drawdowns. I think most if not all lenders would agree with that statement.
I would like some more clarity if I am ever to invest again.
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alender
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Post by alender on Apr 28, 2020 17:52:18 GMT
Quite simple as I stated in my example, if a investor sells £100,000 of QAA at a 20% discount to 80 small investors they have 80 lots of QAA of £1250 each. They all ask to withdraw this money(why not £1000 turns into £1250), the number in the withdraw pool goes up by 80. Let say the withdraw pool contains n investors before the the 80 get involved, each payment lets call it p to the pooled system will see each investor getting p/n, now with 80 new investors they get p/(n+80), obviously less. If and when the 80 get out they will have a nice profit, they tell their friends and family, the game starts again. Larger investors now see even less of their money back. To your previous point "My point is this is not new money" first - I suspect that would depend on the level of discount offers. If I saw really attractive discounts, I'd be tempted to add money to AC to buy some.
Wrt the number of QAA lenders jumping by 80 in your example - are you assuming those 80 don't already have QAA accounts, or they do but the secondary market will form yet another type of access account?
It could attract new money from some buyers but this could be negated by the money leaving the platform from the sellers, no one knowns how much money will come in and leave. However I am not looking at total platform funds but those in the AAs, this will not add any new funds into the AAs so the balance in the accounts will remain the same. If AC could use some of the AAs cash balances to buy these at a decent discount this might help the AAs but of course this depends on how good the loan book is and would be quite a controversial move.
Yes my 80 assumes either new lenders in the AAs or those in the AAs that have not requested withdrawals but see a quick profit. However the 80 is just an example to to show how this could affect those not wanting to sell at a discount but would like some money out. However if a lender sees this as a quick profit they could get their spouse, other family members up two accounts each (if ISA used), and if they have a company can have an additional account, this is best used with small sums so would not require much outlay, £200 per account should be enough, once paid out via the withdraw pool the process can start again. There is also the possibility that some lenders in the AAs not currently withdrawing funds could start doing this and buy back in at a discount.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Apr 28, 2020 18:02:36 GMT
To your previous point "My point is this is not new money" first - I suspect that would depend on the level of discount offers. If I saw really attractive discounts, I'd be tempted to add money to AC to buy some.
Wrt the number of QAA lenders jumping by 80 in your example - are you assuming those 80 don't already have QAA accounts, or they do but the secondary market will form yet another type of access account?
It could attract new money from some buyers but this could be negated by the money leaving the platform from the sellers, no one knowns how much money will come in and leave. However I am not looking at total platform funds but those in the AAs, this will not add any new funds into the AAs so the balance in the accounts will remain the same. If AC could use some of the AAs cash balances to buy these at a decent discount this might help the AAs but of course this depends on how good the loan book is and would be quite a controversial move.
Yes my 80 assumes either new lenders in the AAs or those in the AAs that have not requested withdrawals but see a quick profit. However the 80 is just an example to to show how this could affect those not wanting to sell at a discount but would like some money out. However if a lender sees this as a quick profit they could get their spouse, other family members up two accounts each (if ISA used), and if they have a company can have an additional account, this is best used with small sums so would not require much outlay, £200 per account should be enough, once paid out via the withdraw pool the process can start again. There is also the possibility that some lenders in the AAs not currently withdrawing funds could start doing this and buy back in at a discount.
This highlighted is a very good point, nothing to stop people doing this as the AA has no valuation point for current holders. You have nothing to lose by doing this. It sort of reminds me of the silent oversight about the 30 DAA 90 DAA before the liquidity issue now. You could easily just keep queueing your withdrawal again, reinvest, queue. This is something I did, so that my 30 DAA with really be a 1>29 DAA account at any given point.
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Post by honda2ner on Apr 28, 2020 20:20:54 GMT
It could attract new money from some buyers but this could be negated by the money leaving the platform from the sellers, no one knowns how much money will come in and leave. However I am not looking at total platform funds but those in the AAs, this will not add any new funds into the AAs so the balance in the accounts will remain the same. If AC could use some of the AAs cash balances to buy these at a decent discount this might help the AAs but of course this depends on how good the loan book is and would be quite a controversial move.
Yes my 80 assumes either new lenders in the AAs or those in the AAs that have not requested withdrawals but see a quick profit. However the 80 is just an example to to show how this could affect those not wanting to sell at a discount but would like some money out. However if a lender sees this as a quick profit they could get their spouse, other family members up two accounts each (if ISA used), and if they have a company can have an additional account, this is best used with small sums so would not require much outlay, £200 per account should be enough, once paid out via the withdraw pool the process can start again. There is also the possibility that some lenders in the AAs not currently withdrawing funds could start doing this and buy back in at a discount.
This highlighted is a very good point, nothing to stop people doing this as the AA has no valuation point for current holders. You have nothing to lose by doing this. It sort of reminds me of the silent oversight about the 30 DAA 90 DAA before the liquidity issue now. You could easily just keep queueing your withdrawal again, reinvest, queue. This is something I did, so that my 30 DAA with really be a 1>29 DAA account at any given point. With the trickle of money coming out the AAs I'm sure that everyone and their dog will make a fortune flipping a couple of quid a day for 10% discount, whoophee 25p profit. Who cares? Or maybe NEW MONEY will make a killing, thousands of pounds of it giving hundreds of pounds profit (my money is waiting), in which case bring it on, we need new money onto the platform, anything else is a zero sum game. If you don't like it, don't discount, nothing has changed, you were getting a dribble of repaid loans, you still are as the underlying loans are all still there. The one thing you do have is that your queue position when AC goes back to FIFO (why wouldn't they) is you are in front of all the flippers and much closer to the exit that you desperately want. It will be a lot quieter then (I hope). Sick of all the moaning about someone getting a few bucks discount from foolish overstretched lenders, it's called business folks, no system is perfect and mistakes should be penalised. If you don't like it can I suggest you move to North Korea.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Apr 28, 2020 21:08:22 GMT
This highlighted is a very good point, nothing to stop people doing this as the AA has no valuation point for current holders. You have nothing to lose by doing this. It sort of reminds me of the silent oversight about the 30 DAA 90 DAA before the liquidity issue now. You could easily just keep queueing your withdrawal again, reinvest, queue. This is something I did, so that my 30 DAA with really be a 1>29 DAA account at any given point. With the trickle of money coming out the AAs I'm sure that everyone and their dog will make a fortune flipping a couple of quid a day for 10% discount, whoophee 25p profit. Who cares? Or maybe NEW MONEY will make a killing, thousands of pounds of it giving hundreds of pounds profit (my money is waiting), in which case bring it on, we need new money onto the platform, anything else is a zero sum game. If you don't like it, don't discount, nothing has changed, you were getting a dribble of repaid loans, you still are as the underlying loans are all still there. The one thing you do have is that your queue position when AC goes back to FIFO (why wouldn't they) is you are in front of all the flippers and much closer to the exit that you desperately want. It will be a lot quieter then (I hope). Sick of all the moaning about someone getting a few bucks discount from foolish overstretched lenders, it's called business folks, no system is perfect and mistakes should be penalised. If you don't like it can I suggest you move to North Korea. I'm not moaning, if anything I've been fairly supportive. However what I said above is very very true. Hopefully not enough investors figure that out and create the queue artfically longer for those who DO NOT want to discount. It's a valid point, but its not a fact, nobody knows how it will act. (AC even said this themselves, although I think they have given it a pretty good informed guess!) I myself, I'm looking forward to making a killing. Just like I did on the S&S so far with that hella dip! Yes, you'll find I've been arguing with the moaners alot. A set number of investors who have over invested and spamming up the board with anger/panic. I too am sick of hearing it my friend! 
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Post by df on Apr 28, 2020 21:10:59 GMT
I've trimmed my MLA loans a little, but generally with 2% discount at a maximum. I'd be interested to know what others have done wrt MLA discounts and would do with any new system allowing AA discounts. The same. I've put some for sale at small discount (some were sold very quickly). New system allowing AA discounts shouldn't affect me as I've had daily withdrawals lined up long before the "change of market conditions".
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 28, 2020 22:27:41 GMT
I've trimmed my MLA loans a little, but generally with 2% discount at a maximum. I'd be interested to know what others have done wrt MLA discounts and would do with any new system allowing AA discounts. The same. I've put some for sale at small discount (some were sold very quickly). New system allowing AA discounts shouldn't affect me as I've had daily withdrawals lined up long before the "change of market conditions". I shifted nearly £4,000 in last 24 h, almost all at the lowest discount of 0.5%, a little at 0% and a few odds I really want to trim sooner rather than later at 1-2.5%. But have found myself having to trim discounts to avoid selling too much at too high a discount! The repaid wind money has really been eating up the discounted MLA loan parts. I've now sold about 66% of my MLA holding over the last 6 weeks and am getting to a place I feel more comfortable with, for now. Can always rebuy if/when the winds ahead look calmer.
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 29, 2020 5:19:06 GMT
The same. I've put some for sale at small discount (some were sold very quickly). New system allowing AA discounts shouldn't affect me as I've had daily withdrawals lined up long before the "change of market conditions". I shifted nearly £4,000 in last 24 h, almost all at the lowest discount of 0.5%, a little at 0% and a few odds I really want to trim sooner rather than later at 1-2.5%. But have found myself having to trim discounts to avoid selling too much at too high a discount! The repaid wind money has really been eating up the discounted MLA loan parts. I've now sold about 66% of my MLA holding over the last 6 weeks and am getting to a place I feel more comfortable with, for now. Can always rebuy if/when the winds ahead look calmer. If only there was more wind, to me that was where the calmer waters lay.
So my wind payments have now exited the platform. That leaves me with a rump of loans in GEIA, the bulk of which is in the zombie I*I AND G*W loans (which I never had in my MLIA and would not have taken anything like that level of exposure to at my own discretion), zombie loans in the GBBA, and zombie loans in the MLIA + a scattering of BTLs. Although I see that some of those are less than ideal, with a couple that were supposedly at <35% LTV being in admin and from what I can see forecast to lead to significant capital loss. I'm not going to ask how come right now.
This pretty much marks the end of my (current) p2p adventures, given that my other holdings are a raft of super zombie loans in Thin Cats.
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jcb208
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Post by jcb208 on Apr 29, 2020 8:52:17 GMT
Are Assetz now releasing funds on a first in the queue basis or is it still pooled so we all get the same,reason asking I am not getting much back at all now
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 29, 2020 9:06:57 GMT
Are Assetz now releasing funds on a first in the queue basis or is it still pooled so we all get the same,reason asking I am not getting much back at all now Still pooled
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victors
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Post by victors on Apr 29, 2020 9:07:30 GMT
I'm stuck in the QAA.
I'm really envious of those in the MLA. It's really frustrating to look at your holding in a loan through the QAA and realise you can't sell it if you want to.
Why can't AC allow you to convert your QAA holdings into your MLA?
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alender
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Post by alender on Apr 29, 2020 9:22:39 GMT
Are Assetz now releasing funds on a first in the queue basis or is it still pooled so we all get the same,reason asking I am not getting much back at all now It is still a pool as far as I know.
The problem is AC don't have any free cash, what they had was first used to get pool going, it was then used to pay the withdrawals locked in the queue for the 12/04/20 just before the lock down and now it is going to pay further tranches of current loans. Form irobots estimate Apr £11,930,072 May £25,846,661, these then decrease so perhaps they will start to step up again in Jun.
However with forbearance and more loans suspended it will probably be some time before anything significant will be released.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 29, 2020 9:24:51 GMT
Are Assetz now releasing funds on a first in the queue basis or is it still pooled so we all get the same,reason asking I am not getting much back at all now still looks pooled to me - got £2.34 this morning
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jcb208
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Post by jcb208 on Apr 29, 2020 9:25:03 GMT
I would do the same now ,Transfers wont happen look at all the additional interest Assetz are getting considering we only get 4.1% on our investments that we can,t get access to now.Like most have now missed the best of the Stock market lows
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